- Topic
This comment was originally left on Missionary Ron Ramos Explains Why He Left the WMSCOG After 12 Years – A Former Member's Story
The True WMSCOG writes:
http://www.thetruewmscog.com/hassan-and-the-wmscog/
Come see the discrepancies in Hassan's and Ron's statements.
The same idea of removing context and shuffling statements around they do with everything else. I’ve not watched either in a while
fromtheotherside wrote:
Hey change this site to onewaytriptohell, or better yet hellbound, yea that's catchy! Or how about joinusinhell! lolz The intro can be let's examine how to leave heaven and go to hell with exmembers of heaven.
How bout they change it to, "HIDDEN DANGERS AT THE MALL" or "DON'T GO TO THE MALL UNARMED"
fromtheotherside wrote:
Hey change this site to onewaytriptohell, or better yet hellbound, yea that's catchy! Or how about joinusinhell! lolz The intro can be let's examine how to leave heaven and go to hell with exmembers of heaven.
How bout they change it to, "HIDDEN DANGERS AT THE MALL" or "DON'T GO TO THE MALL UNARMED"
even the kids on the university campuses arent safe! tell are your friends on campus to watch out for the mother god people!
even the kids on the university campuses arent safe! tell are your friends on campus to watch out for the mother god people!
Simon wrote:
The same idea of removing context and shuffling statements around they do with everything else. I've not watched either in a while
So Im not the only one to see it. ty Simon.
Red herring attack on Hassan instead of bringing forward other industry professionals to analyze the situation.
The True's statement about how the "outside world has so much influence"…somehow, magically, there is no influence inside True's group; True doesn't address it.
Ron's quotes are edited. For example, Ron says he did his own research. True states that Ron's ONLY reference is Hassan. When confronted for discussion, excuses ad nauseam.
Simon wrote:
The same idea of removing context and shuffling statements around they do with everything else. I've not watched either in a while
So Im not the only one to see it. ty Simon.
Red herring attack on Hassan instead of bringing forward other industry professionals to analyze the situation.
The True's statement about how the "outside world has so much influence"…somehow, magically, there is no influence inside True's group; True doesn't address it.
Ron's quotes are edited. For example, Ron says he did his own research. True states that Ron's ONLY reference is Hassan. When confronted for discussion, excuses ad nauseam.
I am still a member.
I have been for one year.
I have been passionate about God since I was a pre-teen; I even heard the call to the preaching ministry when I was in the music ministry as a teen. As fate would have it, my life took a different path, though my desire to know truth had remained.
I had all but given up on organized religion when I was approached by members of the Church. Because I had so many question that were unable to be answered by the leaders of the Churches I had belonged to or visited, I was NOT interested in attending a church that was lead by a couple of early 20 year old people. And I made that clear. However, they continued attempting to overcome my objections, and like a good recruit from a Multi-Level-Marketing organization these Zealots tried every response until one resonated with me. And then I was hooked. I was willing to attend their study. I was willing to learn their doctrine. I was willing to judge the teachings according to the teachings of the Bible. Since I am the type that likes to be prepared before entering a debate, I found my way to this site and a few others and that’s where I discovered the Second Coming Christ (God Almighty) and The Lamb (Heavenly Mother) Doctrine. So I was actually prepared and advised them to not show me those. Show me other bible truths which I had never seen and I would judge those to be true or not according to the discernment of the Holy Spirit and my understanding of the Holy Scriptures.
The study’s that led up to my baptism and the techniques used to lead me there are not the topic of this post, so I will skip those. Understand though that within a couple of months I was baptized and within a couple more I was a full fledged gospel worker, forsaking the worldly things (responsibilities) and holding a position in the church.
My issues was discussed above on this board. And these issues have hurt me to the point that I don’t WANT the Church to be true. Issues like, "poor people," about non-robot members being treated differently until they leave or are just blatantly asked to not return, and the teachings about races.
Poverty.
In one a one week-long Elohim Academy that we were "selected" to attend (footing the bill of course, travelling the 1400 mile round trip and paying $200 to attend – with Financial reproductions of this will likely be discussed in a following post) I witnessed and heard with my own ears the Pastor (whom I love) discuss preaching to the poor. Pastor is the "Branch" of our little Zion and of 14 other Zion’s, and he was leading the Elohim academy. The academy had 50 of us students [50*$100 per person = ???(PS, three more groups went out in the month to follow. I Imagine they had a pretty nice end-of-year bonus with at least an extra $20,000 coming "for food and lodging.]
In the academy he stated that we should not preach to the physically poor. We should not preach to the physically homeless. These people will take advantage of the free Breakfast, lunch and dinner that is provided daily at Zion. If a person can not take care of something so precious, that is their own life, how would they handle the truth of light. When the Bible discusses giving the food the poor, the bible is speaking in parable. The bible is discussing the food called the bible. I felt strange about that. Especially since one of the people I preached to while I was out there, the one person that seemed most sincere, The one person that was ‘humble enough to receive the love of God’ just happened to be homeless.
It reminded me of a time when a homeless man had come to our Zion back home. We knew that this man was coming, because he had found my number, called me, and was on his way. However I did not know he was homeless. My church leader and I were excited, until he arrived. My church leader just happily talked with him on the front step, and never let him in. And then it started to rain. And the man decided to leave since he was riding a bike. We didn’t even offer him a ride. Though, our particular Zion picked up 75% of it’s members at that time.
Treatment
As I had stated, I was quickly moving up in the church as I was "blessed with the latter rain of the Holy Spirit" and I studied diligently. Since we were led to believe that God had no reason to allow 2013 since the completion of the gathering of the materials needed for the heavenly Temple would occur in 2012, I no longer needed to maintain employment, so I ceased working and started to focus my time on the work. One of our leaders was replaced by a 22 year old who I don’t mind saying, I never got along with. He is quite arrogant. He expects to be served. He didn’t know how to change a tire his first week here, went to the store and bought a tire, brought it back planning to put it on himself, and I asked, "how are you going to get that tire on the rim? And the other tire off?" I offered my advice and advised that he should put the spare on vehicle and take the tire to the shop to get fixed. He actually said, go ahead and do it for me so you can get the blessing. And walked inside to get coffee. I was shocked. I did it, but I was shocked that he meant it. Not because he’s so young and I have a child his age, but at the shear guts of this full time "servant". As time passed, it became clear that he didn’t like me, unless he needed me for a ride, a tow, or to move something and because he was the assistant to the church leader and he was an enthusiastic leader to the teenaged to 23 year old Zion that had been created, suddenly the feeling had become that a person was either with him or me, I found out later.
I was asked why I was being disobedient. I was being disobedient he had claimed to the deacon, because I called a member that had stopped coming, begging them to keep the feasts of God. But since our church leadership had expressed that we will not call "fallen away members" because they need to find their own way, I was disobedient. And that hurt. And in so many words, I was asked to not come back. I was told by the Deacon/Church leader of our Zion that, "Do you think that everything that Pastor tells me is something I think is right? No. There are times when (Pastor) says things that I know are wrong, but I humble myself and follow. That becomes his sin. Not mine. God knows my heart, and knows that I follow because God is not please with sacrifice, but obedience." That’s a direct quote. And since I challenged authority, as it were, I was not being robotic enough. I was not someone they could rely on to do whatever I am told. In turn I was not a true Child of God, or so I felt. And although we are taught to cover the faults of our brothers and sisters, apparently that means cover the faults of those that do precisely what they are told to do by the church leaders.
What’s worse is, my spouse and Children still attend, and they completely ignore them. Imagine, your spouse no longer attends the congregation, for reasons that you do not know (because, in an effort to shield you from any prejudice or misunderstandings or to influence your opinion of the church – your spouse hadn’t told you the conversation between them and the leaders) and now, you’re ignored too: ostracized for being married to a so called dissentient. Luckily my spouse is not effected by others view of them or their family. My spouse is awesome and my rock. And God surely blessed me with my spouse.
White people are arrogant
An underground teaching that is only given to the select elect is that we should shy away from preaching to and in "white communities." It was explained to me that white people are too arrogant. I was told that it was God’s will that the nation was founded as it was (USA) and it was God’s will that the Caucasians were made to rule over it, acquiring the wealth and business and such. It was simultaneously God’s will that so many ethnic groups and woman would be oppressed, so that at the appointed time the last could be humbled by their past and become first. Women would rise up with unprecedented freedoms and equalities as symbols and signs that God the Mother would come Last. This is why 90 percent of our Zion is either black or Hispanic and over 3/4 are women or their children. This is a problem for me. Especially since I can see with my own eyes that there Zion’s across our country and even in our neighbor to the north and these Zion’s are a majority white. Not to mention, personally, it offends me as this philosophy virtually guarantees that my extended family will not inherit the kingdom of God since they will not be able to follow the commands of God, because they will not accept the truth, because no one will preach to them.
With all of this being said, I am still a member. My heart hurts because I have been convinced that the Bible is so clear on certain aspects. Yet, others claim that it is blasphemy yet only provide unconvincing arguments. Nothing seems to make sense, except the teachings I’ve learned through this church. Are the people immature and clearly wicked, yes; but they are human. I guess what I’m saying is, I’m back where I started. I’m wishing to have a deep relationship with God. I’m wishing to understand deep truths. I want to believe that the creator of all things would be so much deeper than "just believe." I want to believe that it all means, something. I want to feel truly loved and accepted. But I sit here staring at the floor thinking, "I guess man will always blemish God’s good things."
I am still a member.
I have been for one year.
I have been passionate about God since I was a pre-teen; I even heard the call to the preaching ministry when I was in the music ministry as a teen. As fate would have it, my life took a different path, though my desire to know truth had remained.
I had all but given up on organized religion when I was approached by members of the Church. Because I had so many question that were unable to be answered by the leaders of the Churches I had belonged to or visited, I was NOT interested in attending a church that was lead by a couple of early 20 year old people. And I made that clear. However, they continued attempting to overcome my objections, and like a good recruit from a Multi-Level-Marketing organization these Zealots tried every response until one resonated with me. And then I was hooked. I was willing to attend their study. I was willing to learn their doctrine. I was willing to judge the teachings according to the teachings of the Bible. Since I am the type that likes to be prepared before entering a debate, I found my way to this site and a few others and that’s where I discovered the Second Coming Christ (God Almighty) and The Lamb (Heavenly Mother) Doctrine. So I was actually prepared and advised them to not show me those. Show me other bible truths which I had never seen and I would judge those to be true or not according to the discernment of the Holy Spirit and my understanding of the Holy Scriptures.
The study’s that led up to my baptism and the techniques used to lead me there are not the topic of this post, so I will skip those. Understand though that within a couple of months I was baptized and within a couple more I was a full fledged gospel worker, forsaking the worldly things (responsibilities) and holding a position in the church.
My issues was discussed above on this board. And these issues have hurt me to the point that I don’t WANT the Church to be true. Issues like, "poor people," about non-robot members being treated differently until they leave or are just blatantly asked to not return, and the teachings about races.
Poverty.
In one a one week-long Elohim Academy that we were "selected" to attend (footing the bill of course, travelling the 1400 mile round trip and paying $200 to attend – with Financial reproductions of this will likely be discussed in a following post) I witnessed and heard with my own ears the Pastor (whom I love) discuss preaching to the poor. Pastor is the "Branch" of our little Zion and of 14 other Zion’s, and he was leading the Elohim academy. The academy had 50 of us students [50*$100 per person = ???(PS, three more groups went out in the month to follow. I Imagine they had a pretty nice end-of-year bonus with at least an extra $20,000 coming "for food and lodging.]
In the academy he stated that we should not preach to the physically poor. We should not preach to the physically homeless. These people will take advantage of the free Breakfast, lunch and dinner that is provided daily at Zion. If a person can not take care of something so precious, that is their own life, how would they handle the truth of light. When the Bible discusses giving the food the poor, the bible is speaking in parable. The bible is discussing the food called the bible. I felt strange about that. Especially since one of the people I preached to while I was out there, the one person that seemed most sincere, The one person that was ‘humble enough to receive the love of God’ just happened to be homeless.
It reminded me of a time when a homeless man had come to our Zion back home. We knew that this man was coming, because he had found my number, called me, and was on his way. However I did not know he was homeless. My church leader and I were excited, until he arrived. My church leader just happily talked with him on the front step, and never let him in. And then it started to rain. And the man decided to leave since he was riding a bike. We didn’t even offer him a ride. Though, our particular Zion picked up 75% of it’s members at that time.
Treatment
As I had stated, I was quickly moving up in the church as I was "blessed with the latter rain of the Holy Spirit" and I studied diligently. Since we were led to believe that God had no reason to allow 2013 since the completion of the gathering of the materials needed for the heavenly Temple would occur in 2012, I no longer needed to maintain employment, so I ceased working and started to focus my time on the work. One of our leaders was replaced by a 22 year old who I don’t mind saying, I never got along with. He is quite arrogant. He expects to be served. He didn’t know how to change a tire his first week here, went to the store and bought a tire, brought it back planning to put it on himself, and I asked, "how are you going to get that tire on the rim? And the other tire off?" I offered my advice and advised that he should put the spare on vehicle and take the tire to the shop to get fixed. He actually said, go ahead and do it for me so you can get the blessing. And walked inside to get coffee. I was shocked. I did it, but I was shocked that he meant it. Not because he’s so young and I have a child his age, but at the shear guts of this full time "servant". As time passed, it became clear that he didn’t like me, unless he needed me for a ride, a tow, or to move something and because he was the assistant to the church leader and he was an enthusiastic leader to the teenaged to 23 year old Zion that had been created, suddenly the feeling had become that a person was either with him or me, I found out later.
I was asked why I was being disobedient. I was being disobedient he had claimed to the deacon, because I called a member that had stopped coming, begging them to keep the feasts of God. But since our church leadership had expressed that we will not call "fallen away members" because they need to find their own way, I was disobedient. And that hurt. And in so many words, I was asked to not come back. I was told by the Deacon/Church leader of our Zion that, "Do you think that everything that Pastor tells me is something I think is right? No. There are times when (Pastor) says things that I know are wrong, but I humble myself and follow. That becomes his sin. Not mine. God knows my heart, and knows that I follow because God is not please with sacrifice, but obedience." That’s a direct quote. And since I challenged authority, as it were, I was not being robotic enough. I was not someone they could rely on to do whatever I am told. In turn I was not a true Child of God, or so I felt. And although we are taught to cover the faults of our brothers and sisters, apparently that means cover the faults of those that do precisely what they are told to do by the church leaders.
What’s worse is, my spouse and Children still attend, and they completely ignore them. Imagine, your spouse no longer attends the congregation, for reasons that you do not know (because, in an effort to shield you from any prejudice or misunderstandings or to influence your opinion of the church – your spouse hadn’t told you the conversation between them and the leaders) and now, you’re ignored too: ostracized for being married to a so called dissentient. Luckily my spouse is not effected by others view of them or their family. My spouse is awesome and my rock. And God surely blessed me with my spouse.
White people are arrogant
An underground teaching that is only given to the select elect is that we should shy away from preaching to and in "white communities." It was explained to me that white people are too arrogant. I was told that it was God’s will that the nation was founded as it was (USA) and it was God’s will that the Caucasians were made to rule over it, acquiring the wealth and business and such. It was simultaneously God’s will that so many ethnic groups and woman would be oppressed, so that at the appointed time the last could be humbled by their past and become first. Women would rise up with unprecedented freedoms and equalities as symbols and signs that God the Mother would come Last. This is why 90 percent of our Zion is either black or Hispanic and over 3/4 are women or their children. This is a problem for me. Especially since I can see with my own eyes that there Zion’s across our country and even in our neighbor to the north and these Zion’s are a majority white. Not to mention, personally, it offends me as this philosophy virtually guarantees that my extended family will not inherit the kingdom of God since they will not be able to follow the commands of God, because they will not accept the truth, because no one will preach to them.
With all of this being said, I am still a member. My heart hurts because I have been convinced that the Bible is so clear on certain aspects. Yet, others claim that it is blasphemy yet only provide unconvincing arguments. Nothing seems to make sense, except the teachings I’ve learned through this church. Are the people immature and clearly wicked, yes; but they are human. I guess what I’m saying is, I’m back where I started. I’m wishing to have a deep relationship with God. I’m wishing to understand deep truths. I want to believe that the creator of all things would be so much deeper than "just believe." I want to believe that it all means, something. I want to feel truly loved and accepted. But I sit here staring at the floor thinking, "I guess man will always blemish God’s good things."
@Anon (or anyone for that matter)
re: poverty.
Is it true that the homeless, poor, handicapped did something to "deserve" their ailment? ie, "blame the victim"?
@Anon (or anyone for that matter)
re: poverty.
Is it true that the homeless, poor, handicapped did something to "deserve" their ailment? ie, "blame the victim"?
Questioninginla wrote:
@Anon (or anyone for that matter)
re: poverty.
Is it true that the homeless, poor, handicapped did something to "deserve" their ailment? ie, "blame the victim"?
Luke 4:16-21
He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the wealthy. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
who see's the problem with that quotation?
Questioninginla wrote:
@Anon (or anyone for that matter)
re: poverty.
Is it true that the homeless, poor, handicapped did something to "deserve" their ailment? ie, "blame the victim"?
Luke 4:16-21
He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the wealthy. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
who see's the problem with that quotation?
Oh and I forgot
Luke 6:20-21. Blessed are you who are rich, for yours in the kingdom of God. …
and
James 2:5. Did not God choose the wealthy of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
Oh and I forgot
Luke 6:20-21. Blessed are you who are rich, for yours in the kingdom of God. …
and
James 2:5. Did not God choose the wealthy of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
The only teaching I have heard that came directly from the Pastor, was that the homeless and poor are in their situation by choice and that they should improve their situation before they can truly take upon the hefty weight of the light of truth. Personally, I've never heard anything about handicapped individuals. I know that we had zero intentions of adding handicapped accesibilty ramps at our Zion, even when the fire marshall stated that we either install them or leave. But on the flip side of this, when we had a non hearing person study with us, we did do everything we could to accomadate them.
The only teaching I have heard that came directly from the Pastor, was that the homeless and poor are in their situation by choice and that they should improve their situation before they can truly take upon the hefty weight of the light of truth. Personally, I've never heard anything about handicapped individuals. I know that we had zero intentions of adding handicapped accesibilty ramps at our Zion, even when the fire marshall stated that we either install them or leave. But on the flip side of this, when we had a non hearing person study with us, we did do everything we could to accomadate them.
ANONUSAMEMBER wrote:
The only teaching I have heard that came directly from the Pastor, was that the homeless and poor are in their situation by choice
That is just an arrogant lie on the part of your pastor
and that they should improve their situation before they can truly take upon the hefty weight of the light of truth.
Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
ANONUSAMEMBER wrote:
The only teaching I have heard that came directly from the Pastor, was that the homeless and poor are in their situation by choice
That is just an arrogant lie on the part of your pastor
and that they should improve their situation before they can truly take upon the hefty weight of the light of truth.
Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Simon wrote:
Questioninginla wrote:
@Anon (or anyone for that matter)
re: poverty.
Is it true that the homeless, poor, handicapped did something to "deserve" their ailment? ie, "blame the victim"?
Luke 4:16-21
He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the wealthy. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
who see's the problem with that quotation?
Simon wrote:
Oh and I forgot
Luke 6:20-21. Blessed are you who are rich, for yours in the kingdom of God. …
and
James 2:5. Did not God choose the wealthy of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
wrong! Jesus said the poor
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