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This comment was originally left on Missionary Ron Ramos Explains Why He Left the WMSCOG After 12 Years – A Former Member's Story
The True WMSCOG writes:
http://www.thetruewmscog.com/hassan-and-the-wmscog/
Come see the discrepancies in Hassan's and Ron's statements.
Yeah, not only do they call Ron a liar but now he wasn’t good enough. Even though he conducted Sabbath day services when pastor was “unavailable”. He was “good enough” to fill in but not for much else eh?
Wonder what they’ll say about you. Can’t be good since you are very good at being a good example and all.
A margin for error exists but she was not referred to by any of the females that were baptized among my friends, nor did I know her among the gathering group leaders.
Perhaps she does a great job at whatever it is she does, but I do not know of it and no female misionaries were "popular" in that Zion as of two years ago, that is not to say that she doesn't exist, just that its hard for me to comment on what her spiritual progress is like.
And more to the point; its none of your business, or mine.
Thats between her and God.
I would by no means want to stimatize her thanks to Ron, I am sure she is faithful where he was not, there is no shame in her progress wherever she remains and I hope she is abundantly blessed.
A margin for error exists but she was not referred to by any of the females that were baptized among my friends, nor did I know her among the gathering group leaders.
Perhaps she does a great job at whatever it is she does, but I do not know of it and no female misionaries were "popular" in that Zion as of two years ago, that is not to say that she doesn't exist, just that its hard for me to comment on what her spiritual progress is like.
And more to the point; its none of your business, or mine.
Thats between her and God.
I would by no means want to stimatize her thanks to Ron, I am sure she is faithful where he was not, there is no shame in her progress wherever she remains and I hope she is abundantly blessed.
Yep! Ron sure was good enough that he held services when the pastor was out of town or wherever. Suprise anyone would even say he wasn't good enough. Is any of them good enough to these folks?
Yep! Ron sure was good enough that he held services when the pastor was out of town or wherever. Suprise anyone would even say he wasn't good enough. Is any of them good enough to these folks?
Oh double standard? Love it! And it’s no one’s business but her and God? Same could be said for Ron but you would rather speak negatively about him and call him a liar.
Oh double standard? Love it! And it’s no one’s business but her and God? Same could be said for Ron but you would rather speak negatively about him and call him a liar.
Sarah2013
Even deacons can hold services, filling in for Pastor doesn't make you an authority in our church, it just makes you the guy who filled in for Pastor. At the time he was blessed to do it, but now he is no longer.
In the past people asked him for guidance, but now he has betrayed us by telling lies. Even Jesus himself was betrayed by his own disciple, and of the last days it is said that we must expel our own immoral brothers.
Disturbed
I'm sorry, you must have missed the part where Ron decided to put a defamatory video on the internet. You must have missed the memo when this website published it to the world. But obviously it is too advanced for you to understand that this makes Ron an antagonist we are responding to, and it is beyond you to fathom that this makes his circumstance different than the sister your trying to drag into the argument.
When Ron wants to delete that video, have them all taken down, and reconcile himself with God, I will again say "it is between him and God"
But while Ron speaks to the whole world, I will say "you are lying to everyone and they have seen it proven."
Sarah2013
Even deacons can hold services, filling in for Pastor doesn't make you an authority in our church, it just makes you the guy who filled in for Pastor. At the time he was blessed to do it, but now he is no longer.
In the past people asked him for guidance, but now he has betrayed us by telling lies. Even Jesus himself was betrayed by his own disciple, and of the last days it is said that we must expel our own immoral brothers.
Disturbed
I'm sorry, you must have missed the part where Ron decided to put a defamatory video on the internet. You must have missed the memo when this website published it to the world. But obviously it is too advanced for you to understand that this makes Ron an antagonist we are responding to, and it is beyond you to fathom that this makes his circumstance different than the sister your trying to drag into the argument.
When Ron wants to delete that video, have them all taken down, and reconcile himself with God, I will again say "it is between him and God"
But while Ron speaks to the whole world, I will say "you are lying to everyone and they have seen it proven."
144000,
You believe Ron made some mistakes or unfounded statements in his video. Probably you think that we should ignore everything Ron has to say because of this, is that right? Wouldn't it be nice if we could talk to Ron and have him clear them up.
A few days ago you made some strange statements about the Bible, and you haven't responded yet to my questions about where you got such information. I'm going to copy the post again here. You made similarly strange statements in another thread. People will not want to listen to what you have to say about the Bible if you continue to make such unfounded statements. I'm giving you the opportunity to clear them up. (Please see the 37 years thread for the others.)
genny wrote:
144000 wrote:
I do not know off of the top of my head Genny, but such topics which are tangential to the truth of Passover and the prophecies, are not a pressing concern to me for one simple reason.
144000, thank you for your calm manner in discussing this with me.
These little things may sound tangential and unimportant, but many little things put together become a big deal. Especially when the mistakes are from someone who's supposed to be God.
God said he covered the whole earth with a flood and destroyed everything and everyone.
Yet Anak existed before the flood, and the descendents of Anak survived the flood.
Which verse says that Anak existed before the flood and survived?
Also many nations survived the flood and were visited by Noah's family immediately after they got off the boat, even a multitude of nations with different languages.
What Bible are you using? What verses tell this in the Bible?
Furthermore God is faithful to his promses, so it is indeed right to say he would have honored his word and spared anyone who followed his instructions.
Yes, I believe God would have spared anyone following His directions at the first Passover. But the point is the Bible doesn't mention that any Egyptians did and in fact says the opposite. You can speculate that it may have been hyperbole, but it is a speculation. To say definitively that any were spared is still adding to the Bible.
By the way, that was part of a response to this post:
genny wrote:
I find it interesting that you hold Ron to a higher standard of accuracy that you do your own 'Father and Mother'-authorized writings. Here are a few examples.
Ahn said that Egyptians who put the blood of the Passover on their houses were saved, but the Bible says that every Egyptian house had someone dead.
Ahn said that Jesus preached in the temple everyday during the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7), but the Bible says that He only started preaching half way through the feast.
An official sermon said that the command in Rev. 2:10 were spoken by the Archangel Michael, but the Bible says that Jesus was speaking those words.
An official sermon says that Moses always obeyed God's will, but he disobeyed God at Meribah.
An official sermon says that Thomas Edison prayed and God gave him the idea for the light bulb, but Edison denied the existence of God.
The wmscog teaches that the correct feast dates are essential, but there were several years when they kept the 7th month feasts in the 8th month instead. (We've got a whole thread on that one.)
And official doctrine teaches that the Ostrogoths were destroyed in 538, when they definitely were not destroyed until much later. (We've got a whole thread on that one too.)
I suggest you take that same level of scrutiny you are using with Ron and use it also with your own organization.
144000,
You believe Ron made some mistakes or unfounded statements in his video. Probably you think that we should ignore everything Ron has to say because of this, is that right? Wouldn't it be nice if we could talk to Ron and have him clear them up.
A few days ago you made some strange statements about the Bible, and you haven't responded yet to my questions about where you got such information. I'm going to copy the post again here. You made similarly strange statements in another thread. People will not want to listen to what you have to say about the Bible if you continue to make such unfounded statements. I'm giving you the opportunity to clear them up. (Please see the 37 years thread for the others.)
genny wrote:
144000 wrote:
I do not know off of the top of my head Genny, but such topics which are tangential to the truth of Passover and the prophecies, are not a pressing concern to me for one simple reason.
144000, thank you for your calm manner in discussing this with me.
These little things may sound tangential and unimportant, but many little things put together become a big deal. Especially when the mistakes are from someone who's supposed to be God.
God said he covered the whole earth with a flood and destroyed everything and everyone.
Yet Anak existed before the flood, and the descendents of Anak survived the flood.
Which verse says that Anak existed before the flood and survived?
Also many nations survived the flood and were visited by Noah's family immediately after they got off the boat, even a multitude of nations with different languages.
What Bible are you using? What verses tell this in the Bible?
Furthermore God is faithful to his promses, so it is indeed right to say he would have honored his word and spared anyone who followed his instructions.
Yes, I believe God would have spared anyone following His directions at the first Passover. But the point is the Bible doesn't mention that any Egyptians did and in fact says the opposite. You can speculate that it may have been hyperbole, but it is a speculation. To say definitively that any were spared is still adding to the Bible.
By the way, that was part of a response to this post:
genny wrote:
I find it interesting that you hold Ron to a higher standard of accuracy that you do your own 'Father and Mother'-authorized writings. Here are a few examples.
Ahn said that Egyptians who put the blood of the Passover on their houses were saved, but the Bible says that every Egyptian house had someone dead.
Ahn said that Jesus preached in the temple everyday during the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7), but the Bible says that He only started preaching half way through the feast.
An official sermon said that the command in Rev. 2:10 were spoken by the Archangel Michael, but the Bible says that Jesus was speaking those words.
An official sermon says that Moses always obeyed God's will, but he disobeyed God at Meribah.
An official sermon says that Thomas Edison prayed and God gave him the idea for the light bulb, but Edison denied the existence of God.
The wmscog teaches that the correct feast dates are essential, but there were several years when they kept the 7th month feasts in the 8th month instead. (We've got a whole thread on that one.)
And official doctrine teaches that the Ostrogoths were destroyed in 538, when they definitely were not destroyed until much later. (We've got a whole thread on that one too.)
I suggest you take that same level of scrutiny you are using with Ron and use it also with your own organization.
The nephilim existed before the flood, genesis chapter 6.
Then the flood happened.
Then the giants still existed, even though no one in Noah's family was a giant.
This is seen with Arba, father of Anak, father of Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai. If you read exodus numbers deuteronomy and joshua theese giants are encountered multiple times.
Also within 350 years the population of the world jumped from 8 people to several thousands (per nation) and considering there was at least 10 different nations by name of each of the sons whom separated that makes at least 50,000 people? Of which Abram alone took 300+ fighting men and about a thousand servants with him. Entire nations were making war, hundreds and thousands died in battle, and more remained.
If you were to believe that all the women had babies back-to-back one for every single year, and all their descendants had babies back-to-back one for every single year as soon as they were of age, you still cannot repopulate the earth to that order of magnitude that quickly.
It just doesn't make sense. Do the math, and every time someone says "among other sons and daughters" be generous, count one baby per year for them.
You still come up grossly short of continent-spanning nations and thousands upon thousands of populations.
Nephilim say "not everyone died"
Nations say "we didn't die"
Also Science, there was no worldwide flood, that just actually did not happen. It was in fact regional.
The nephilim existed before the flood, genesis chapter 6.
Then the flood happened.
Then the giants still existed, even though no one in Noah's family was a giant.
This is seen with Arba, father of Anak, father of Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai. If you read exodus numbers deuteronomy and joshua theese giants are encountered multiple times.
Also within 350 years the population of the world jumped from 8 people to several thousands (per nation) and considering there was at least 10 different nations by name of each of the sons whom separated that makes at least 50,000 people? Of which Abram alone took 300+ fighting men and about a thousand servants with him. Entire nations were making war, hundreds and thousands died in battle, and more remained.
If you were to believe that all the women had babies back-to-back one for every single year, and all their descendants had babies back-to-back one for every single year as soon as they were of age, you still cannot repopulate the earth to that order of magnitude that quickly.
It just doesn't make sense. Do the math, and every time someone says "among other sons and daughters" be generous, count one baby per year for them.
You still come up grossly short of continent-spanning nations and thousands upon thousands of populations.
Nephilim say "not everyone died"
Nations say "we didn't die"
Also Science, there was no worldwide flood, that just actually did not happen. It was in fact regional.
144000 wrote:
The nephilim existed before the flood, genesis chapter 6.
Then the flood happened.
Then the giants still existed, even though no one in Noah's family was a giant.
This is seen with Arba, father of Anak, father of Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai. If you read exodus numbers deuteronomy and joshua theese giants are encountered multiple times.
Could be that Noah or his wife or his sons or daughters-in-law carried the gene and passed it on. Then it showed up later in different family lines. Only those in the ark survived (Gen. 7:4). To say otherwise, you must add to the Bible, which is something the wmscog says not to do.
Also within 350 years the population of the world jumped from 8 people to several thousands (per nation) and considering there was at least 10 different nations by name of each of the sons whom separated that makes at least 50,000 people? Of which Abram alone took 300+ fighting men and about a thousand servants with him. Entire nations were making war, hundreds and thousands died in battle, and more remained.
If you were to believe that all the women had babies back-to-back one for every single year, and all their descendants had babies back-to-back one for every single year as soon as they were of age, you still cannot repopulate the earth to that order of magnitude that quickly.
Jacob took 70 people to Egypt, but when they came out of Egypt 430 years later there were more than 600,000 of them. There may have been some intermarriage with the Egyptians, and maybe they didn't include servants in the first number and did in the second, but still, that's a pretty big increase. Population increases exponentially in a family tree.
But even to give you the benefit of the doubt that the flood was regional, to say that "many nations met Noah's family immediately after they got off the boat, even a multitude of nations with different languages" is to add to the Bible. Do you always take such liberties with the word of God?
It just doesn't make sense. Do the math, and every time someone says "among other sons and daughters" be generous, count one baby per year for them.
You still come up grossly short of continent-spanning nations and thousands upon thousands of populations.
Nephilim say "not everyone died"
Nations say "we didn't die"
Also Science, there was no worldwide flood, that just actually did not happen. It was in fact regional.
Here's some basic math to estimate. Let's say a woman can have 30 babies in her lifetime, and we'll just count Noah's 3 daughters-in-law. They could conceivable have 60 babies. For simplicity, we'll say half are girls.
Those 30 women have 30 babies themselves, so the second generation has 900 children–450 are girls.
Those 450 women have 30 babies each, so the third generation has 13,500 children–6750 are girls.
Those 6750 women have 30 babies each, so the fourth generation has 202,500 children–101,250 are girls.
Those 101,250 women have 30 babies each, so the fifth generation has 3,037,500 children.
That's five generations worth, and don't forget that the population would include older generations still living. A rough estimate shows it's possible. You don't have to add to the Bible to make it work.
But besides that, aren't you glad you are able to clarify yourself in a conversation like this? Someone disagrees with you and you can go back and explain where your thoughts came from any why you said what you did. Better than your comments being ripped apart with no opportunity to explain yourself, right?
Ron is not here to explain himself when you rip his comments apart. That is why we here are trying to speculate how he might explain his comments.
144000 wrote:
The nephilim existed before the flood, genesis chapter 6.
Then the flood happened.
Then the giants still existed, even though no one in Noah's family was a giant.
This is seen with Arba, father of Anak, father of Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai. If you read exodus numbers deuteronomy and joshua theese giants are encountered multiple times.
Could be that Noah or his wife or his sons or daughters-in-law carried the gene and passed it on. Then it showed up later in different family lines. Only those in the ark survived (Gen. 7:4). To say otherwise, you must add to the Bible, which is something the wmscog says not to do.
Also within 350 years the population of the world jumped from 8 people to several thousands (per nation) and considering there was at least 10 different nations by name of each of the sons whom separated that makes at least 50,000 people? Of which Abram alone took 300+ fighting men and about a thousand servants with him. Entire nations were making war, hundreds and thousands died in battle, and more remained.
If you were to believe that all the women had babies back-to-back one for every single year, and all their descendants had babies back-to-back one for every single year as soon as they were of age, you still cannot repopulate the earth to that order of magnitude that quickly.
Jacob took 70 people to Egypt, but when they came out of Egypt 430 years later there were more than 600,000 of them. There may have been some intermarriage with the Egyptians, and maybe they didn't include servants in the first number and did in the second, but still, that's a pretty big increase. Population increases exponentially in a family tree.
But even to give you the benefit of the doubt that the flood was regional, to say that "many nations met Noah's family immediately after they got off the boat, even a multitude of nations with different languages" is to add to the Bible. Do you always take such liberties with the word of God?
It just doesn't make sense. Do the math, and every time someone says "among other sons and daughters" be generous, count one baby per year for them.
You still come up grossly short of continent-spanning nations and thousands upon thousands of populations.
Nephilim say "not everyone died"
Nations say "we didn't die"
Also Science, there was no worldwide flood, that just actually did not happen. It was in fact regional.
Here's some basic math to estimate. Let's say a woman can have 30 babies in her lifetime, and we'll just count Noah's 3 daughters-in-law. They could conceivable have 60 babies. For simplicity, we'll say half are girls.
Those 30 women have 30 babies themselves, so the second generation has 900 children–450 are girls.
Those 450 women have 30 babies each, so the third generation has 13,500 children–6750 are girls.
Those 6750 women have 30 babies each, so the fourth generation has 202,500 children–101,250 are girls.
Those 101,250 women have 30 babies each, so the fifth generation has 3,037,500 children.
That's five generations worth, and don't forget that the population would include older generations still living. A rough estimate shows it's possible. You don't have to add to the Bible to make it work.
But besides that, aren't you glad you are able to clarify yourself in a conversation like this? Someone disagrees with you and you can go back and explain where your thoughts came from any why you said what you did. Better than your comments being ripped apart with no opportunity to explain yourself, right?
Ron is not here to explain himself when you rip his comments apart. That is why we here are trying to speculate how he might explain his comments.
Sorry but the bible itself testifies to how high the flood waters were and it wasn’t high enough to cover all the earth.
Fagile stone formations testify there were no flood waters.
The ecosystem testifies that there was no flood (every vegetation and seed on earth would be wiped out)
The sons were divided according to their clans nations and languages, read it.
Archeology testifies that nations and peoples survived the flood.
And finally, if you don’t already understand how ridiculous your example is (by the way your example claims 3 million out of 8 one hundred years faster than Jacob got 600,000 out of 70) then I’m done here.
Sorry but the bible itself testifies to how high the flood waters were and it wasn’t high enough to cover all the earth.
Fagile stone formations testify there were no flood waters.
The ecosystem testifies that there was no flood (every vegetation and seed on earth would be wiped out)
The sons were divided according to their clans nations and languages, read it.
Archeology testifies that nations and peoples survived the flood.
And finally, if you don’t already understand how ridiculous your example is (by the way your example claims 3 million out of 8 one hundred years faster than Jacob got 600,000 out of 70) then I’m done here.
Disturbed wrote:
LOL…what about the female missionary in San Diego? She's been in the San Diego area for a long time. And a missionary for a long time. She's not good enough to become pastor?
Shows what you know, there are no female pastors, korean or foreign. This is your "knowledge"? No wonder you left.
Disturbed wrote:
LOL…what about the female missionary in San Diego? She's been in the San Diego area for a long time. And a missionary for a long time. She's not good enough to become pastor?
Shows what you know, there are no female pastors, korean or foreign. This is your "knowledge"? No wonder you left.
The evidence is clear that Ron did not live up to the standards, and did not do as well. You all ignore it. Ron expressed his feelings about being "overlooked" in his video.
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