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This comment was originally left on Missionary Ron Ramos Explains Why He Left the WMSCOG After 12 Years – A Former Member's Story
The True WMSCOG writes:
http://www.thetruewmscog.com/hassan-and-the-wmscog/
Come see the discrepancies in Hassan's and Ron's statements.
144000 wrote:
I sympathize deeply with family members and people who have family members that butt heads over religion. Half of my own family did with me, the other half are neutral, and only one other was baptised. But again, and I garauntee you this here, you are again only hearing half of the story. Do you think the wives and family members will say to you "then I called him a brainwashed idiot and demanded that he choose between me or the church"? No, they will not admit that they were argumentative or confrontational, people do not realize that maybe the family members weren't the same soft-spoken bleeding hearts that you hear now.
I will metaphorically step into 144000's body and say:
"I'm 144000, and I subscribe to stereotyped and anecdotal thinking".
Separation from family over religion:
Moonies
JWs
Jesus of Siberia
AJ Miller
cut to about 9:30 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML2Oa4Oigvo
"No, they will not admit that they were argumentative or confrontational, people do not realize that maybe the family members weren't the same soft-spoken bleeding hearts that you hear now."
Just more blame the victim – all across the board – by people convinced a human is God. Not to worry, 144000 has bet the farm that this one is true. He will watch the video looking for differences and excuses rather than similarities. Poor thing, this 144000….
Questioninginla wrote:
144000 wrote:
I sympathize deeply with family members and people who have family members that butt heads over religion. Half of my own family did with me, the other half are neutral, and only one other was baptised. But again, and I garauntee you this here, you are again only hearing half of the story. Do you think the wives and family members will say to you "then I called him a brainwashed idiot and demanded that he choose between me or the church"? No, they will not admit that they were argumentative or confrontational, people do not realize that maybe the family members weren't the same soft-spoken bleeding hearts that you hear now.
I will metaphorically step into 144000's body and say:
"I'm 144000, and I subscribe to stereotyped and anecdotal thinking".
Separation from family over religion:
Moonies
JWs
Jesus of Siberia
AJ Miller
cut to about 9:30 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML2Oa4Oigvo
"No, they will not admit that they were argumentative or confrontational, people do not realize that maybe the family members weren't the same soft-spoken bleeding hearts that you hear now."
Just more blame the victim – all across the board – by people convinced a human is God. Not to worry, 144000 has bet the farm that this one is true. He will watch the video looking for differences and excuses rather than similarities. Poor thing, this 144000….
So true.
Questioninginla wrote:
144000 wrote:
I sympathize deeply with family members and people who have family members that butt heads over religion. Half of my own family did with me, the other half are neutral, and only one other was baptised. But again, and I garauntee you this here, you are again only hearing half of the story. Do you think the wives and family members will say to you "then I called him a brainwashed idiot and demanded that he choose between me or the church"? No, they will not admit that they were argumentative or confrontational, people do not realize that maybe the family members weren't the same soft-spoken bleeding hearts that you hear now.
I will metaphorically step into 144000's body and say:
"I'm 144000, and I subscribe to stereotyped and anecdotal thinking".
Separation from family over religion:
Moonies
JWs
Jesus of Siberia
AJ Miller
cut to about 9:30 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML2Oa4Oigvo
"No, they will not admit that they were argumentative or confrontational, people do not realize that maybe the family members weren't the same soft-spoken bleeding hearts that you hear now."
Just more blame the victim – all across the board – by people convinced a human is God. Not to worry, 144000 has bet the farm that this one is true. He will watch the video looking for differences and excuses rather than similarities. Poor thing, this 144000….
So true.
Storm wrote:
Simon wrote:
Questioninginla wrote:
@Anon (or anyone for that matter)
re: poverty.
Is it true that the homeless, poor, handicapped did something to "deserve" their ailment? ie, "blame the victim"?
Luke 4:16-21
He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the wealthy. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
who see's the problem with that quotation?
Simon wrote:
Oh and I forgot
Luke 6:20-21. Blessed are you who are rich, for yours in the kingdom of God. …
and
James 2:5. Did not God choose the wealthy of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
wrong! Jesus said the poor
But, according to the teachings of the church, Christ spoke in parable and Poor means something ifferent than physically poor.
Storm wrote:
Simon wrote:
Questioninginla wrote:
@Anon (or anyone for that matter)
re: poverty.
Is it true that the homeless, poor, handicapped did something to "deserve" their ailment? ie, "blame the victim"?
Luke 4:16-21
He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the wealthy. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
who see's the problem with that quotation?
Simon wrote:
Oh and I forgot
Luke 6:20-21. Blessed are you who are rich, for yours in the kingdom of God. …
and
James 2:5. Did not God choose the wealthy of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
wrong! Jesus said the poor
But, according to the teachings of the church, Christ spoke in parable and Poor means something ifferent than physically poor.
The problem with the teaching of the church is that Christ spoke in parables when is convenient for them, but in other moments, when is not convenient, he spoke literaly.
For example, when he is talking about giving, they use it literaly, as we literaly have to give to the church, when is to give to other people, then its a parable.
When is about hating, about telling the other person evildore, when is about thinking about the other as bad, then is literal, when the bible talks about honoring others or about loving others, then is a parable.
I think they use the word "parable" as an accessory and they put it on and take it off as they want.
The problem with the teaching of the church is that Christ spoke in parables when is convenient for them, but in other moments, when is not convenient, he spoke literaly.
For example, when he is talking about giving, they use it literaly, as we literaly have to give to the church, when is to give to other people, then its a parable.
When is about hating, about telling the other person evildore, when is about thinking about the other as bad, then is literal, when the bible talks about honoring others or about loving others, then is a parable.
I think they use the word "parable" as an accessory and they put it on and take it off as they want.
I'm debating whether or not this post was presumptuous and offensive. If you are implying that I have ignored my own faults to paint a heartwarming picture, in you's guys minds, about me then I apologize that I came off that way. Of course I have faults … which are supposed to be covered. In fact I expressed my faults in the post. I am disobedient to my leaders, because I am free thinking. Because I have four children and a pregnant wife, I work full time to support us all and additional hours to cover the debt that I incurred when I stopped working in October so I could attend Elohim Academy, preach, pray and study since we were led to believe that Father would come in 2012 (yes we were told by our church leader "in 2012"). And once our family was in a rut that was staggering enough for me to wake up and get with the program I started working the above described hours and was no longer at Zion 6 days a week from 8:55am to10:30pm and one day from lunch ti to 10:30. Guess what happened then? Yeah my church leader sat me down and said that he didn't want me to fall away. I ensure him I was working more. I was up at 6am so i could work until 7pm and go to church until 10:30 and study FIVE DAYS A WEEK all day Sabbath and 12 hours on sunday. I was still passing my subjects. I was still performing the duties of my position (which I will not expose on here for the sake of anonymity.) But I was disobedient for reasons like, calling members that are, btw, the oldest member we have here (spiritually) who had slowed down on attending because our recently turned deacon (from brother) suddenly might seem, maybe, some might say, possibly , just a little … tiny bit, … different than he was before. Ps, this individual receive a new title in month A and our membership was over 100 regular attendees for the appointed times, on average. What do you think it is now? I hear that at last count, we're at 27 with 14 being children. Now, am I disobedient? Of course, but I'm also hurt by the fact that the people that were here when I cam over a year ago, people that led me into the church and have great faith, are being completely ignored right out of the building. That's a fact, brother. I'm not denouncing the teachings, yet. But arrogant people that refuse to open their eyes to the inconsistencies of the improperly trained & young-in-real-life-experience leaders – in fear that F&M may strike them down for speaking against their modern day local moses', are really making the church look bad. Instead of calling a spade a spade, what do we do? Speak philosophical possibilities around the subject until the listener comes to understand "on their own" that it is a playing card with many shapes and colors; to call it a spade is unfair; isn't it really a rectangle.
this is a resonse to @144000 who stated
"Non-robot member" stories are usually told from a very biased perspective, there is usually more to the story than the people who are crying "foul" will tell you.
I understand with complete sincerity that a lot of people have hurt feelings when they are told to leave, but if you ask your group leaders, I am sure they will tell you that they and the Pastor did not come to such decisions lightly, nor did they make their decisions in haste. It is usually only after repeated bad examples and their own claim that they are unwilling to set better examples that we say "well then perhaps this religion is not for you".
I'm debating whether or not this post was presumptuous and offensive. If you are implying that I have ignored my own faults to paint a heartwarming picture, in you's guys minds, about me then I apologize that I came off that way. Of course I have faults … which are supposed to be covered. In fact I expressed my faults in the post. I am disobedient to my leaders, because I am free thinking. Because I have four children and a pregnant wife, I work full time to support us all and additional hours to cover the debt that I incurred when I stopped working in October so I could attend Elohim Academy, preach, pray and study since we were led to believe that Father would come in 2012 (yes we were told by our church leader "in 2012"). And once our family was in a rut that was staggering enough for me to wake up and get with the program I started working the above described hours and was no longer at Zion 6 days a week from 8:55am to10:30pm and one day from lunch ti to 10:30. Guess what happened then? Yeah my church leader sat me down and said that he didn't want me to fall away. I ensure him I was working more. I was up at 6am so i could work until 7pm and go to church until 10:30 and study FIVE DAYS A WEEK all day Sabbath and 12 hours on sunday. I was still passing my subjects. I was still performing the duties of my position (which I will not expose on here for the sake of anonymity.) But I was disobedient for reasons like, calling members that are, btw, the oldest member we have here (spiritually) who had slowed down on attending because our recently turned deacon (from brother) suddenly might seem, maybe, some might say, possibly , just a little … tiny bit, … different than he was before. Ps, this individual receive a new title in month A and our membership was over 100 regular attendees for the appointed times, on average. What do you think it is now? I hear that at last count, we're at 27 with 14 being children. Now, am I disobedient? Of course, but I'm also hurt by the fact that the people that were here when I cam over a year ago, people that led me into the church and have great faith, are being completely ignored right out of the building. That's a fact, brother. I'm not denouncing the teachings, yet. But arrogant people that refuse to open their eyes to the inconsistencies of the improperly trained & young-in-real-life-experience leaders – in fear that F&M may strike them down for speaking against their modern day local moses', are really making the church look bad. Instead of calling a spade a spade, what do we do? Speak philosophical possibilities around the subject until the listener comes to understand "on their own" that it is a playing card with many shapes and colors; to call it a spade is unfair; isn't it really a rectangle.
this is a resonse to @144000 who stated
"Non-robot member" stories are usually told from a very biased perspective, there is usually more to the story than the people who are crying "foul" will tell you.
I understand with complete sincerity that a lot of people have hurt feelings when they are told to leave, but if you ask your group leaders, I am sure they will tell you that they and the Pastor did not come to such decisions lightly, nor did they make their decisions in haste. It is usually only after repeated bad examples and their own claim that they are unwilling to set better examples that we say "well then perhaps this religion is not for you".
@ANONUSAMEMBER – My friend, stick around here a while. It is God's grace that you are out and will now be able to see without control. Please do not think that the problem is cause by the young new leader. The problem is deep rooted within their teaching. Ahn is not God. He did not restore the Passover. There was nothing to restore regarding the Passover. Their claims are fake. They say Ahn predicted his death after 37 years but there is absolutely no evidence other than their own claims. They say he pointed to Zahng but again they have no evidence other than their own claims. In fact the real evidence says that Ayhn denounced the idea of a mother god. The bible denounces it as goddess worship.Praise and thank the one true God who brought this young leader in so that your eyes may be opened.
@ANONUSAMEMBER – My friend, stick around here a while. It is God's grace that you are out and will now be able to see without control. Please do not think that the problem is cause by the young new leader. The problem is deep rooted within their teaching. Ahn is not God. He did not restore the Passover. There was nothing to restore regarding the Passover. Their claims are fake. They say Ahn predicted his death after 37 years but there is absolutely no evidence other than their own claims. They say he pointed to Zahng but again they have no evidence other than their own claims. In fact the real evidence says that Ayhn denounced the idea of a mother god. The bible denounces it as goddess worship.Praise and thank the one true God who brought this young leader in so that your eyes may be opened.
ANONUSAMEMBER
I was talking about the other stories posted here which are suspiciously one-sided, and nothing at all like the way I've witnessed elders handle members leaving in the past and the great patience and care they demonstrated.
Also none of my Zions have youth leadership, which I think your saying a lot of the leaders were younger? Because that makes a big difference, especially if its a deacon and not a misisonary. So I have no idea what would be correct or incorrect to say in their circumstance, they may not have the luxury of Missionary and Pastoral attention.
It sounds like you worked really hard and very admirably, perhaps even pushing yourself too hard. Then suddenly appeared to "fall away" during the same time that a lot of people started slacking, which may have colored their opinion on your intentions.
Try to get in contact with a pastor or elder group leader from another Zion perhaps, talk to some elder leaders through church websites or facebook, elder leaders are always available and while obediance is best if you have a problem, those are the kind of resources you are supposed to have available.
ANONUSAMEMBER
I was talking about the other stories posted here which are suspiciously one-sided, and nothing at all like the way I've witnessed elders handle members leaving in the past and the great patience and care they demonstrated.
Also none of my Zions have youth leadership, which I think your saying a lot of the leaders were younger? Because that makes a big difference, especially if its a deacon and not a misisonary. So I have no idea what would be correct or incorrect to say in their circumstance, they may not have the luxury of Missionary and Pastoral attention.
It sounds like you worked really hard and very admirably, perhaps even pushing yourself too hard. Then suddenly appeared to "fall away" during the same time that a lot of people started slacking, which may have colored their opinion on your intentions.
Try to get in contact with a pastor or elder group leader from another Zion perhaps, talk to some elder leaders through church websites or facebook, elder leaders are always available and while obediance is best if you have a problem, those are the kind of resources you are supposed to have available.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Hey pretty eyes, I would probably throw up in your face if I were to see your "prettyeyes"
That statement was rude and completely uncalled for, Brother!
fromtheotherside wrote:
Hey pretty eyes, I would probably throw up in your face if I were to see your "prettyeyes"
That statement was rude and completely uncalled for, Brother!
fromtheotherside wrote:
I wouldn't want to come that close to you P-eyes (see how that sounds like pee eyes or even pea eyes! Choose your pick!)lolz. Also how is what I said a threat? It's more of a prediction. And plus I have a good stomach I could launch my stomach contents pretty far so I don't have to get that close to you, God forbid. Yes please continue to pray to your ONE TRUE (g)OD! So that way you get no responce. How did you know I was a flunkie, takes one to know one! hah! Yes you are a minority. Yes your stories don't count!
Just seeing this laughable post! Very immature but that's ok. If we were anywhere in the same space, you wouldn't be talking so much sh*t! Yes I will continue praying to the ONE TRUE God! My prayers get answered in HIS time, be worried HE'S coming for you!
fromtheotherside wrote:
I wouldn't want to come that close to you P-eyes (see how that sounds like pee eyes or even pea eyes! Choose your pick!)lolz. Also how is what I said a threat? It's more of a prediction. And plus I have a good stomach I could launch my stomach contents pretty far so I don't have to get that close to you, God forbid. Yes please continue to pray to your ONE TRUE (g)OD! So that way you get no responce. How did you know I was a flunkie, takes one to know one! hah! Yes you are a minority. Yes your stories don't count!
Just seeing this laughable post! Very immature but that's ok. If we were anywhere in the same space, you wouldn't be talking so much sh*t! Yes I will continue praying to the ONE TRUE God! My prayers get answered in HIS time, be worried HE'S coming for you!
Carlos wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
Hey pretty eyes, I would probably throw up in your face if I were to see your "prettyeyes"
That statement was rude and completely uncalled for, Brother!
Atta boy Carlos, you should go back and read some of the stuff Mama's hittman has written, you won't like it. He's no gentlemen and you know he's there with her blessing. (blessing used figuratively speaking) I think you just stumbled on the otherside of truth, you decide.
I hear, hurricanes a blowing, I know, the end is coming soon! c ya kid.
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