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This comment was originally left on Missionary Ron Ramos Explains Why He Left the WMSCOG After 12 Years – A Former Member's Story
The True WMSCOG writes:
http://www.thetruewmscog.com/hassan-and-the-wmscog/
Come see the discrepancies in Hassan's and Ron's statements.
144000 wrote:
I never denied us vs them, the bible dictates it is us vs them and saying anything to the contrary is in opposition to the word of Jesus. Do not be so eager to belong to the world.
If you shift the goalposts any farther you'll have to start a new thread about tattle-tales.
You asked me to read the transcript so I did Questioninginla.
I went through the trouble of playing the video just for you so I could time stamp the exact moment he said it.
Thanks for ignoring it, please continue to argue now that the lie has been exposed, everyone can read how delusional the "witnesses" brought against us are now. And everyone can read how blind their supporters are.
The salient issue is if the policy exists/existed.
The petty debate is whether there were a few members of the black demographic at the time. Alas, on a technicality, I surrender this round.
However, there are so many leaps of logic when I watch the videos by The True WMSCOG that I feel like I'm watching the hurdles at a track meet.
You defend so vehemently this issue, its like watching a debate on abortion. The left screams "WAR ON WOMEN"! Those that do a little thinking consider the coining of the word "genocide" and the 1946-48 ratification by the United Nations General Assembly, which associated the concept with killing, seriously harming, or interfering with the life continuity (preventing births) of an ethnic group. While the Assembly limits the concept to attempts to destroy groups in their entirety (ie, in total), it is interesting to note* that the Black demographic is roughly 3x the amount of abortions as Whites and more than 2x that of all other races. The point being in this paragraph that anyone vested into a particular ideology will find whatever evidence fits their worldview; shouting war on women ad nauseam doesn't change the fact that infanticide runs rampant in that demographic, and it is taboo to even bring it up for conversation.
There is another worldview, 144000. You are just off in the wilderness in a homogeneous environment at the moment.
*2007 US Census Bureau statistics
144000 wrote:
Renita I'm very sad that you forgot to mention when I said that there are different ways of keeping Choseuk. It sure is easy to make me look bad when you cut out my words.
I didn't forget to mention anything. I cut it out because the different ways were irrelevant to the way Chuseok event we were speaking of. We talking about how other Koreans kept it but how Chuseok is explained by modern day Koreans which makes it pagan.
There is the old choseuk, the ancestor worship choseuk, and the not-religious kingdom competition choseuk. One of theese does not involve using idols, but I see that its hard for you to understand that traditions may have changed over time and that Idols were not used by any Wmscog members.
This was not how the official website produced in Korea translated in English described it. They mentioned some old ways of how Chuseok was kept but the main focus was the modern way which included idols.
I am tired of talking about choseuk now because I have repeated that five times now and this is my last. I would drop the subject before people get the wrong idea of your learning ability, stop pushing this conversation where you do not want it to go. God Bless You and I am leaving this thread before we go there.
Then simply stop talking or, as you put it, shut up. Trust, I agree you have said enough. Your foot is so deep in throat I'm surprised it's not peeking out your behind.
144000 wrote:
Renita I'm very sad that you forgot to mention when I said that there are different ways of keeping Choseuk. It sure is easy to make me look bad when you cut out my words.
I didn't forget to mention anything. I cut it out because the different ways were irrelevant to the way Chuseok event we were speaking of. We talking about how other Koreans kept it but how Chuseok is explained by modern day Koreans which makes it pagan.
There is the old choseuk, the ancestor worship choseuk, and the not-religious kingdom competition choseuk. One of theese does not involve using idols, but I see that its hard for you to understand that traditions may have changed over time and that Idols were not used by any Wmscog members.
This was not how the official website produced in Korea translated in English described it. They mentioned some old ways of how Chuseok was kept but the main focus was the modern way which included idols.
I am tired of talking about choseuk now because I have repeated that five times now and this is my last. I would drop the subject before people get the wrong idea of your learning ability, stop pushing this conversation where you do not want it to go. God Bless You and I am leaving this thread before we go there.
Then simply stop talking or, as you put it, shut up. Trust, I agree you have said enough. Your foot is so deep in throat I'm surprised it's not peeking out your behind.
Simon wrote:
either origins matter or they don't
When it comes to Zahng, they don't. It doesn't matter that Chuseok traditions can be traced back to moon and ancestorial worship. It also doesn't matter that Koreans still sacrifice food to their ancestors during Chuseok. It also doesn't matter that celebrating Ash's and Zahng's birthday has man-made origin either. Double standards all over the place.
Simon wrote:
either origins matter or they don't
When it comes to Zahng, they don't. It doesn't matter that Chuseok traditions can be traced back to moon and ancestorial worship. It also doesn't matter that Koreans still sacrifice food to their ancestors during Chuseok. It also doesn't matter that celebrating Ash's and Zahng's birthday has man-made origin either. Double standards all over the place.
I may be oversimplifying this but it seems like the WMSCOG can participate in any festival they choose as long as they do it in their "own way" and not how it has been done. There seems to be no difference from the way a more mainstream church would have an alternative to Halloween. The church certainly wouldn't be participating the way Pagans have in the past so the WMSCOG must think that this kind of thing is alright overall. Or is it that they are going to be hipocritical about this?
I may be oversimplifying this but it seems like the WMSCOG can participate in any festival they choose as long as they do it in their "own way" and not how it has been done. There seems to be no difference from the way a more mainstream church would have an alternative to Halloween. The church certainly wouldn't be participating the way Pagans have in the past so the WMSCOG must think that this kind of thing is alright overall. Or is it that they are going to be hipocritical about this?
Joshua wrote:
I may be oversimplifying this but it seems like the WMSCOG can participate in any festival they choose as long as they do it in their "own way" and not how it has been done. There seems to be no difference from the way a more mainstream church would have an alternative to Halloween. The church certainly wouldn't be participating the way Pagans have in the past so the WMSCOG must think that this kind of thing is alright overall. Or is it that they are going to be hipocritical about this?
You know the answer to that, Joshua. Lol
They're hipocrits because, for as long as I can remember, I have never kept Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc. in the same way as in the deep past but still I am guilty of paganism. When one of their members keeps something that, according to it's deep past, is pagan, suddenly they aren't guilty of paganism because they aren't keeping the festival in the same way.
They say that no one keeps PO like they do and they mean in the same exact way. A church can do everything except pray in the name Ash and suddenly their PO becomes different. Well, my Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc. is different, too.
Joshua wrote:
I may be oversimplifying this but it seems like the WMSCOG can participate in any festival they choose as long as they do it in their "own way" and not how it has been done. There seems to be no difference from the way a more mainstream church would have an alternative to Halloween. The church certainly wouldn't be participating the way Pagans have in the past so the WMSCOG must think that this kind of thing is alright overall. Or is it that they are going to be hipocritical about this?
You know the answer to that, Joshua. Lol
They're hipocrits because, for as long as I can remember, I have never kept Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc. in the same way as in the deep past but still I am guilty of paganism. When one of their members keeps something that, according to it's deep past, is pagan, suddenly they aren't guilty of paganism because they aren't keeping the festival in the same way.
They say that no one keeps PO like they do and they mean in the same exact way. A church can do everything except pray in the name Ash and suddenly their PO becomes different. Well, my Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc. is different, too.
Simon wrote:
either origins matter or they don't
Simon's post is profoundly significant and I would like to see a response from FTOS, 144000 and other current members on the double standards they adopt.
Simon wrote:
either origins matter or they don't
Simon's post is profoundly significant and I would like to see a response from FTOS, 144000 and other current members on the double standards they adopt.
Joshua wrote:
I may be oversimplifying this but it seems like the WMSCOG can participate in any festival they choose as long as they do it in their "own way" and not how it has been done. There seems to be no difference from the way a more mainstream church would have an alternative to Halloween. The church certainly wouldn't be participating the way Pagans have in the past so the WMSCOG must think that this kind of thing is alright overall. Or is it that they are going to be hipocritical about this?
I'd like to hear what the wmscog would say about mainstream churches' Halloween alternative of "Harvest Festivals." Would that be considered pagan or unacceptable? Why?
Joshua wrote:
I may be oversimplifying this but it seems like the WMSCOG can participate in any festival they choose as long as they do it in their "own way" and not how it has been done. There seems to be no difference from the way a more mainstream church would have an alternative to Halloween. The church certainly wouldn't be participating the way Pagans have in the past so the WMSCOG must think that this kind of thing is alright overall. Or is it that they are going to be hipocritical about this?
I'd like to hear what the wmscog would say about mainstream churches' Halloween alternative of "Harvest Festivals." Would that be considered pagan or unacceptable? Why?
Ron is not the liar here, your church is. I made it a point to no longer participate or read in anything Wmscog has to say… I won't even acknowledge it. Yes, I am that biased when it comes to my life. If you respond or say anything directly to me which requires a reply, I probably won't answer no matter how offensive it might come off. My mind is made up here.
Ron is not the liar here, your church is. I made it a point to no longer participate or read in anything Wmscog has to say… I won't even acknowledge it. Yes, I am that biased when it comes to my life. If you respond or say anything directly to me which requires a reply, I probably won't answer no matter how offensive it might come off. My mind is made up here.
Hal wrote:
Id guess it would be like karaite judaism's response to celebrating purim….
And what is the karaite response?
Hal wrote:
Id guess it would be like karaite judaism's response to celebrating purim….
And what is the karaite response?
Let us all pause while 144000 checks back with his leader for advice?
Let us all pause while 144000 checks back with his leader for advice?
I’m done replying to Renita she can go back and read how the origins of a birthday party are different than the origins of a yule tree. One is a physical item which is a pagan idol, one is not.
Genny: If all pagan-related physical idols are destroyed or removed, if you do not do a ritual with the items such as putting on costumes, and if when you have candy you do not pray or call it a holy or special day for gods, then perhaps that time can be dedicated to a church function. But beware it is a slippery slope, the more you have in common with a pagan day the more people begin to think All Hollows Eve is “acceptable”. So the opinion can go either way in truth, however erring on the side of Caution is better in practice which is not to say that Kosher exceptions aren’t sometimes made if they are indeed “kosher”.
Sarah2013: Nice way to shut your eyes and go “lalalalalala”. Ron said there were no black members. There were hundreds of black members. He lied. Ron said do not preach to black anymore. Not only does this contradict his earlier statement, but we still preach to blacks. He lied. Face the facts.
Questioninginla: Poisoning the Well logical fallacy. Catch-22 logical fallacy. If I say I’m capable of independant thought you will crtiticize me as disobedient, if I acklowledge that I take advice from leaders you will call me brainwashed. You do not seem to posess the understanding that a middle ground exists.
You imply so many things that I can’t even keep track of your ignorant assumptions. You have no idea who I am and you are missing the point by a country mile that I thought a lot of theese things before I ever even entered the WMSCOG but please, imply more, so everyone can see that the only thing you can think of are assumptions.
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