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Feel free to browse through these sites. Most give interesting info about WMSCOG like about false tax exempt, how they don’t tell people the full name of their religion, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a-2yJ7YYdU (Here is a video)
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Other%20Pagan%20Mumbo-Jumbo/wmscog.htm
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/659-world-mission-society-church-of-god / http://www.apologeticsindex.org/2608-world-mission-society-church-of-god-cult
http://eyeonapologetics.com/blog/tag/world-mission-society-church-of-god-cult/
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,79728,page=2 (Here is claims about IRS)
http://www.gotquestions.org/heavenly-mother.html
http://www.letusreason.org/WorldR2.htm
http://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=227
http://www.brendoman.com/wardwords/2005/11/21/cult
http://carm.org/world-mission-society-church-of-god
http://www.topix.com/forum/phoenix/TNVDFN2VGTGUC8TTC
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_World_Mission_Society_Church_of_God_a_cult
WMSCOG, also feel free to investigate about the people who made these websites and sue them too for their honest opinion.
FTOS, even enemies show respect, you know. You both disagree but can agree to disagree. Unless you are ahng or mama, I see no reason to say all that. Jesus can speak for himself,yea?
FTOS, even enemies show respect, you know. You both disagree but can agree to disagree. Unless you are ahng or mama, I see no reason to say all that. Jesus can speak for himself,yea?
You said the following:
1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
Matthew 26:35 – 35 — But Peter declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.
Since Jesus was the prophesied Son of God, it is acceptable that Peter would follow Him this way. It is proven through the prophecies and I will only believe Ahn to be Jesus if you also prove to me through prophecies that he was the one to fulfill the 2nd coming. I have heard your teachings and I find it inconsistent with the bible prophecy
I understand that from your perspective Jesus is the prophesied Son of God, however, that was not the view point 2,000 years ago. Especially not the viewpoint of the religious leaders.
In the viewpoint of the people at that time Jesus was: The son of Mary and Joseph, who worked as a carpenter, who went to a river and got wet by a crazy guy name John, and now is leading a rebellion. He is single His whole life, He hangs around prostitutes and tax collectors, His followers are unschooled fishermen, and if that wasnt enough He is telling people to eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life.
So to this person Peter is saying: "…Even if i have to die with you…" — In this way I am seeing the argument in the situations, as you claim Im not doing.
Second… If your basis for saying that Christ Ahnsahnghong is not second coming of Christ is that YOU see inconsistencies in the teachings is not a valid argument, the reason I am saying this is becuase until this day there are many Jewish biblical scholars who see inconsistencies with the prophecies about Jesus being the Christ; now does that make Him not the Christ?? absolutely NOT.
For example, look at the prophecy of Isaiah 9 —
Isaiah 9:1-2 — … In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honer Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan — The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.
Who in their sane mind would have thought that this prophecy meant Jesus preaching in the land of Galilee (Matthew 4:12-17), no one understood that, even when it was happening. It wasnt until the disciples(belivers, not non believers) wrote about it that we know the prophecy was fulfilled.
In conclusion, to me and to thousands of others we believe Christ Ahnsahnghong fulfilled many Biblical prophecies and therefore He is the second coming of Christ… please excuse the fact I dont have as much time in my hands as you do to constantly post on this forum, but I dont think I am ignoring the other points you brought up, I will answer them in future posts.
You said the following:
1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
Matthew 26:35 – 35 — But Peter declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.
Since Jesus was the prophesied Son of God, it is acceptable that Peter would follow Him this way. It is proven through the prophecies and I will only believe Ahn to be Jesus if you also prove to me through prophecies that he was the one to fulfill the 2nd coming. I have heard your teachings and I find it inconsistent with the bible prophecy
I understand that from your perspective Jesus is the prophesied Son of God, however, that was not the view point 2,000 years ago. Especially not the viewpoint of the religious leaders.
In the viewpoint of the people at that time Jesus was: The son of Mary and Joseph, who worked as a carpenter, who went to a river and got wet by a crazy guy name John, and now is leading a rebellion. He is single His whole life, He hangs around prostitutes and tax collectors, His followers are unschooled fishermen, and if that wasnt enough He is telling people to eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life.
So to this person Peter is saying: "…Even if i have to die with you…" — In this way I am seeing the argument in the situations, as you claim Im not doing.
Second… If your basis for saying that Christ Ahnsahnghong is not second coming of Christ is that YOU see inconsistencies in the teachings is not a valid argument, the reason I am saying this is becuase until this day there are many Jewish biblical scholars who see inconsistencies with the prophecies about Jesus being the Christ; now does that make Him not the Christ?? absolutely NOT.
For example, look at the prophecy of Isaiah 9 —
Isaiah 9:1-2 — … In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honer Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan — The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.
Who in their sane mind would have thought that this prophecy meant Jesus preaching in the land of Galilee (Matthew 4:12-17), no one understood that, even when it was happening. It wasnt until the disciples(belivers, not non believers) wrote about it that we know the prophecy was fulfilled.
In conclusion, to me and to thousands of others we believe Christ Ahnsahnghong fulfilled many Biblical prophecies and therefore He is the second coming of Christ… please excuse the fact I dont have as much time in my hands as you do to constantly post on this forum, but I dont think I am ignoring the other points you brought up, I will answer them in future posts.
You said the following:
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
Matthew 28:19 — Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
The wmscog insisted for people to be baptize immediately as what happened in my case when I refused many times. They do this to increase registered members. Did Jesus told the disciples that they should insist to UNWILLING people that they HAVE to be baptized? No, He did not. In fact, looking at the book of Acts, the people need to BELIEVE first before being baptized.
By reading Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:15 and many other verses of the New Testament you can see that the disciples were indeed "preoccupied" with bringing new members, or as the Bible says it, leading others to Christ. Would you deny the fact that the duty of a Christian is to lead others to Christ?
So your statement about your experience with your baptism doesnt rule out the fact that the disciples were "preoccupied" with leading new members to Christ.
Now about your baptism, please understand that everything depends on the way you look at it (either the cup is half empty or half full), the church members insisting you on being baptized was done with a mind of concern. In their heart they wanted to see you receive forgivness of sins by undergoing baptism (the fact that you dont believe it now doesnt dismerit the action), so can you really blame them for this?
Also you had the choice, Im sorry but I have witnessed many situations where baptism is insisted to the person studying, but at the end they still said no, so ultimately the choice was yours. I am sure that they didnt put a gun on your head, beat you up, threw you in the water, and forced the bread and wine in your mouth…So in a way you did belive what you were shown, were you reluctant to get baptized? yes, but thats common to many people, even myself. But now contrary to you I dont regret on having been baptized, and I consider it being the best choice I ever made in my life.
You said the following:
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
Matthew 28:19 — Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
The wmscog insisted for people to be baptize immediately as what happened in my case when I refused many times. They do this to increase registered members. Did Jesus told the disciples that they should insist to UNWILLING people that they HAVE to be baptized? No, He did not. In fact, looking at the book of Acts, the people need to BELIEVE first before being baptized.
By reading Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:15 and many other verses of the New Testament you can see that the disciples were indeed "preoccupied" with bringing new members, or as the Bible says it, leading others to Christ. Would you deny the fact that the duty of a Christian is to lead others to Christ?
So your statement about your experience with your baptism doesnt rule out the fact that the disciples were "preoccupied" with leading new members to Christ.
Now about your baptism, please understand that everything depends on the way you look at it (either the cup is half empty or half full), the church members insisting you on being baptized was done with a mind of concern. In their heart they wanted to see you receive forgivness of sins by undergoing baptism (the fact that you dont believe it now doesnt dismerit the action), so can you really blame them for this?
Also you had the choice, Im sorry but I have witnessed many situations where baptism is insisted to the person studying, but at the end they still said no, so ultimately the choice was yours. I am sure that they didnt put a gun on your head, beat you up, threw you in the water, and forced the bread and wine in your mouth…So in a way you did belive what you were shown, were you reluctant to get baptized? yes, but thats common to many people, even myself. But now contrary to you I dont regret on having been baptized, and I consider it being the best choice I ever made in my life.
Im sorry this is all the … Time… I have for today, I will come back soon to debate your other points… till next… Time
Im sorry this is all the … Time… I have for today, I will come back soon to debate your other points… till next… Time
FTOS, I didn't say my relative opened up to me. Far from it, he is very secretive about church matters, etc., which is very indicative of cult involvement and activity. He will not tell me what is going on behind closed doors there because he knows I would not like it. So our conversations are very superficial, usually me doing all the talking and him not being able to contribute much if anything. That is because he has nothing to talk about but church doings, and he knows that is something no one in our family is going to want to be involved in, although they told him we would all join. We never will, not one of us, so they lied to him, of course. I think he is starting to see that now. The truth eventually wins out, as you can see from what happened with Diane Simms and Ron Ramos.
Love wins out too, and our family loves him, and always will. He needs to know we will always be there for him when he decides to really examine what this "church" has perpetrated upon him. We know this could happen to anyone, and we do not look down upon him for being taken advantage of by them. Many people in that church are good people, simply fooled by some slick scheisters.
FTOS, I didn't say my relative opened up to me. Far from it, he is very secretive about church matters, etc., which is very indicative of cult involvement and activity. He will not tell me what is going on behind closed doors there because he knows I would not like it. So our conversations are very superficial, usually me doing all the talking and him not being able to contribute much if anything. That is because he has nothing to talk about but church doings, and he knows that is something no one in our family is going to want to be involved in, although they told him we would all join. We never will, not one of us, so they lied to him, of course. I think he is starting to see that now. The truth eventually wins out, as you can see from what happened with Diane Simms and Ron Ramos.
Love wins out too, and our family loves him, and always will. He needs to know we will always be there for him when he decides to really examine what this "church" has perpetrated upon him. We know this could happen to anyone, and we do not look down upon him for being taken advantage of by them. Many people in that church are good people, simply fooled by some slick scheisters.
Cut and pasted from Time's post:
I understand that from your perspective Jesus is the prophesied Son of God, however, that was not the view point 2,000 years ago. Especially not the viewpoint of the religious leaders.
In the viewpoint of the people at that time Jesus was: The son of Mary and Joseph, who worked as a carpenter, who went to a river and got wet by a crazy guy name John, and now is leading a rebellion. He is single His whole life, He hangs around prostitutes and tax collectors, His followers are unschooled fishermen, and if that wasnt enough He is telling people to eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life.
So to this person Peter is saying: "…Even if i have to die with you…" — In this way I am seeing the argument in the situations, as you claim Im not doing.
Second… If your basis for saying that Christ Ahnsahnghong is not second coming of Christ is that YOU see inconsistencies in the teachings is not a valid argument, the reason I am saying this is becuase until this day there are many Jewish biblical scholars who see inconsistencies with the prophecies about Jesus being the Christ; now does that make Him not the Christ?? absolutely NOT.
In conclusion, to me and to thousands of others we believe Christ Ahnsahnghong fulfilled many Biblical prophecies and therefore He is the second coming of Christ… please excuse the fact I dont have as much time in my hands as you do to constantly post on this forum, but I dont think I am ignoring the other points you brought up, I will answer them in future posts.
Boy, when you first posted on the forum I was impressed with how intelligent and non-hateful your posting was. I even complimented you on this and thought that you might just have a fresh perspective for us. OOPS, please forgive me for jumping the gun.
You have oversimplified what you feel were the pertinate points of the life and followers of Jesus. This point is so flawed I don't even have a starting point for it. Why would Peter be willing to die along side of Jesus? Jesus had already shared with Peter that what Peter believed about Jesus being the Son of God was true. Jesus revealed himself not just here but in many parts of scripture. According to WMSCOG teachings Ahn NEVER did. Understand this if you get nothing else out of my response; We all know about how you and thousands of others are being deceived by the lies and deceptions of the WMS. You don't need to try to quantify your responses with the number of people that have been coned and taken advantage of. I for ONE feel sorry for each and every one of them which is why we try to help and why we are Examiming the WMSCOG and revealing the false teachings and deceptions. The idea that those of us here seeing the inconsistancy of Ahn's teaching as invalid is a cult control type of response. If their points don't match up with ours, invalidate them. Here's the rub; the proof in on you! We claim that Jesus is the Son of God just as the Bible teaches and your group claims that Ahn is the reencarnated son of god as the WMSCOG teaches. The proof and conclusions drawn up by the WMSCOG are highly questionable and weak at best. How bad it has to suck to try to defend the WMS seems overwelming. By the way, if you are going to continue to use the WMSCOG yardstick of Ahn fulfilled prophesy so he must be god line then I could also throw my hat into the running for being your god. How many different ways do the teachings of the WMSCOG have to be wrong before you wake up, take the wool off of your head, and see the truth? What disagrees with the WMSCOG teachings? The Word of God, Historical record, Archealogy, All of the different calanders, Some WMS teachings contradict other WMS teachings, and the WMSCOG's own man made created god Ahn disagrees with the WMS. Like I stated before; It must really suck to try to defend the heavily flawed and deceptive WMSCOG. You have my pitty and my prayers for your quick exit. Put your faith in the one who paid the price for you. Believe in Him and Him alone.
Cut and pasted from Time's post:
I understand that from your perspective Jesus is the prophesied Son of God, however, that was not the view point 2,000 years ago. Especially not the viewpoint of the religious leaders.
In the viewpoint of the people at that time Jesus was: The son of Mary and Joseph, who worked as a carpenter, who went to a river and got wet by a crazy guy name John, and now is leading a rebellion. He is single His whole life, He hangs around prostitutes and tax collectors, His followers are unschooled fishermen, and if that wasnt enough He is telling people to eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life.
So to this person Peter is saying: "…Even if i have to die with you…" — In this way I am seeing the argument in the situations, as you claim Im not doing.
Second… If your basis for saying that Christ Ahnsahnghong is not second coming of Christ is that YOU see inconsistencies in the teachings is not a valid argument, the reason I am saying this is becuase until this day there are many Jewish biblical scholars who see inconsistencies with the prophecies about Jesus being the Christ; now does that make Him not the Christ?? absolutely NOT.
In conclusion, to me and to thousands of others we believe Christ Ahnsahnghong fulfilled many Biblical prophecies and therefore He is the second coming of Christ… please excuse the fact I dont have as much time in my hands as you do to constantly post on this forum, but I dont think I am ignoring the other points you brought up, I will answer them in future posts.
Boy, when you first posted on the forum I was impressed with how intelligent and non-hateful your posting was. I even complimented you on this and thought that you might just have a fresh perspective for us. OOPS, please forgive me for jumping the gun.
You have oversimplified what you feel were the pertinate points of the life and followers of Jesus. This point is so flawed I don't even have a starting point for it. Why would Peter be willing to die along side of Jesus? Jesus had already shared with Peter that what Peter believed about Jesus being the Son of God was true. Jesus revealed himself not just here but in many parts of scripture. According to WMSCOG teachings Ahn NEVER did. Understand this if you get nothing else out of my response; We all know about how you and thousands of others are being deceived by the lies and deceptions of the WMS. You don't need to try to quantify your responses with the number of people that have been coned and taken advantage of. I for ONE feel sorry for each and every one of them which is why we try to help and why we are Examiming the WMSCOG and revealing the false teachings and deceptions. The idea that those of us here seeing the inconsistancy of Ahn's teaching as invalid is a cult control type of response. If their points don't match up with ours, invalidate them. Here's the rub; the proof in on you! We claim that Jesus is the Son of God just as the Bible teaches and your group claims that Ahn is the reencarnated son of god as the WMSCOG teaches. The proof and conclusions drawn up by the WMSCOG are highly questionable and weak at best. How bad it has to suck to try to defend the WMS seems overwelming. By the way, if you are going to continue to use the WMSCOG yardstick of Ahn fulfilled prophesy so he must be god line then I could also throw my hat into the running for being your god. How many different ways do the teachings of the WMSCOG have to be wrong before you wake up, take the wool off of your head, and see the truth? What disagrees with the WMSCOG teachings? The Word of God, Historical record, Archealogy, All of the different calanders, Some WMS teachings contradict other WMS teachings, and the WMSCOG's own man made created god Ahn disagrees with the WMS. Like I stated before; It must really suck to try to defend the heavily flawed and deceptive WMSCOG. You have my pitty and my prayers for your quick exit. Put your faith in the one who paid the price for you. Believe in Him and Him alone.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
1 Corinthians 16:1-4 — Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany me.
With the term "preoccupied" it means that the group is VERY FOCUS on making money. Can you honestly say that the bible testifies that Jesus and His group were PREOCCUPIED in making money? This verse you have given is showing the process on how they collect money, I think you cannot base "preoccupation" with only this verse. Was Jesus rich or was ever rich during His lifetime? No. Is the WMSCOG rich? YES. (I will leave Ahn out of this since I believe that he did not claim to be Jesus).
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The World Mission Society Church of God is not very focused on making money, if they were…. Why dont they ask for offerings on the Third Day Service??
I have yet to attend a Church that does not collect offerings on every service it gives, but yet in the WMSCOG we dont collect money on the third day service.
This argument that the WMSCOG is a business out to get the money of its members always gets me a little upset, because there is no evidence for this.
For example, Steven Hassan and others (this website) compare the WMSCOG to the Unification Church (aka Moonies) since they were both founded in Korea. But when it comes to the family of Moon, you can find many houses all over the world, and you can see Moon going on vacation and so on..
PLEASE show me the evidence of what Heavenly Mother or General Pastor are doing with all the money? PLEASE show me where are her summer houses, or how many times she goes on vacation? if she is really doing this for money, where is all the money going?? PLEASE provide this evidence before making such accusations.
Now the Church does teach about the law of tithes and offerings as it is in the Bible…
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
1 Corinthians 16:1-4 — Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany me.
With the term "preoccupied" it means that the group is VERY FOCUS on making money. Can you honestly say that the bible testifies that Jesus and His group were PREOCCUPIED in making money? This verse you have given is showing the process on how they collect money, I think you cannot base "preoccupation" with only this verse. Was Jesus rich or was ever rich during His lifetime? No. Is the WMSCOG rich? YES. (I will leave Ahn out of this since I believe that he did not claim to be Jesus).
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The World Mission Society Church of God is not very focused on making money, if they were…. Why dont they ask for offerings on the Third Day Service??
I have yet to attend a Church that does not collect offerings on every service it gives, but yet in the WMSCOG we dont collect money on the third day service.
This argument that the WMSCOG is a business out to get the money of its members always gets me a little upset, because there is no evidence for this.
For example, Steven Hassan and others (this website) compare the WMSCOG to the Unification Church (aka Moonies) since they were both founded in Korea. But when it comes to the family of Moon, you can find many houses all over the world, and you can see Moon going on vacation and so on..
PLEASE show me the evidence of what Heavenly Mother or General Pastor are doing with all the money? PLEASE show me where are her summer houses, or how many times she goes on vacation? if she is really doing this for money, where is all the money going?? PLEASE provide this evidence before making such accusations.
Now the Church does teach about the law of tithes and offerings as it is in the Bible…
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
James 1:6-7 — But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;
This verse was not talking about doubting the TEACHINGS. Here, read it starting on verse 5: "If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind…" If you analyze this one carefully, this is talking about ASKING for something in faith. It says that WHEN you ask, you must believe and not doubt. I think the verse you have given does not coincide with point #4. Do you have any other supporting verses?
How about Romans 14:23
Romans 14:23 — But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
James 1:6-7 — But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;
This verse was not talking about doubting the TEACHINGS. Here, read it starting on verse 5: "If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind…" If you analyze this one carefully, this is talking about ASKING for something in faith. It says that WHEN you ask, you must believe and not doubt. I think the verse you have given does not coincide with point #4. Do you have any other supporting verses?
How about Romans 14:23
Romans 14:23 — But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
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