[Elievalkyrie]

Feel free to browse through these sites. Most give interesting info about WMSCOG like about false tax exempt, how they don’t tell people the full name of their religion, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a-2yJ7YYdU (Here is a video)

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Other%20Pagan%20Mumbo-Jumbo/wmscog.htm

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/659-world-mission-society-church-of-god / http://www.apologeticsindex.org/2608-world-mission-society-church-of-god-cult

http://eyeonapologetics.com/blog/tag/world-mission-society-church-of-god-cult/

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,79728,page=2 (Here is claims about IRS)

http://www.gotquestions.org/heavenly-mother.html

http://www.letusreason.org/WorldR2.htm

Cultbusting Korea: World Mission Society Church of God

http://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=227

http://www.brendoman.com/wardwords/2005/11/21/cult

http://carm.org/world-mission-society-church-of-god

http://www.topix.com/forum/phoenix/TNVDFN2VGTGUC8TTC

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_World_Mission_Society_Church_of_God_a_cult

WMSCOG, also feel free to investigate about the people who made these websites and sue them too for their honest opinion.

[Joshua]

[Joshua]

I'm not sure what we would call people who have taken a rather large amount of time learning and disecting cults and cult like behavior if we did not call them "experts" or "professionals". Someone who studies martial arts for many years becomes an "expert", "professional", or an "artist". I haven't found a cult expert yet who prolaims themselves as an expert but the good ones do provide their credentials and patient testimonies. These folks are qualified to determine if a group has cult like tendencies. Not every group that has these tendencies are a cult however, it is nieve of us to assume that these folks would not posess the skills required to make a accurate estimation as to whether a group is a cult or not.

[Joshua]

I'm not sure what we would call people who have taken a rather large amount of time learning and disecting cults and cult like behavior if we did not call them "experts" or "professionals". Someone who studies martial arts for many years becomes an "expert", "professional", or an "artist". I haven't found a cult expert yet who prolaims themselves as an expert but the good ones do provide their credentials and patient testimonies. These folks are qualified to determine if a group has cult like tendencies. Not every group that has these tendencies are a cult however, it is nieve of us to assume that these folks would not posess the skills required to make a accurate estimation as to whether a group is a cult or not.

[Simon]

but shouldn’t theologians who spend their whole lives studying scripture be able to recognize a cult too also? think Pharisees

also why doesn’t hassen realize he is in a cult also? yes the kaballah celebrities are doing is different but the “real” form is still a cult

[Simon]

but shouldn’t theologians who spend their whole lives studying scripture be able to recognize a cult too also? think Pharisees

also why doesn’t hassen realize he is in a cult also? yes the kaballah celebrities are doing is different but the “real” form is still a cult

[Joshua]

I'm not sure that the Kaballah fits into the idea of a cult. There are cult like properties to it I'm sure but as I stated above

Not every group that has these tendencies are a cult . 

 

Curiosity, does this group have a centeral figurehead who has no form of checks and balances? Is there one person at the top that doesn't answer to anyone? I can't imagine that Steve would let himself be brought into another group like this. I have sat down with Steve and heard his testimony and understand his resolve when it comes to freedom of mind. If he's involved with a cult this would surprise me a lot.

[Joshua]

I'm not sure that the Kaballah fits into the idea of a cult. There are cult like properties to it I'm sure but as I stated above

Not every group that has these tendencies are a cult . 

 

Curiosity, does this group have a centeral figurehead who has no form of checks and balances? Is there one person at the top that doesn't answer to anyone? I can't imagine that Steve would let himself be brought into another group like this. I have sat down with Steve and heard his testimony and understand his resolve when it comes to freedom of mind. If he's involved with a cult this would surprise me a lot.

[Elievalkyrie]

Time, I will admit that you have a very valid argument, let me endevour to make a good one out of it. The problem with your argument is that those verses you have taken aren't seen in situations. Let's examine this one by one to see the difference shall we?

 

Time wrote:

In this case Jesus and his disciples were part of a cult too.

1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.

Matthew 26:35 – 35 — But Peter declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.

Since Jesus was the prophesied Son of God, it is acceptable that Peter would follow Him this way. It is proven through the prophecies and I will only believe Ahn to be Jesus if you also prove to me through prophecies that he was the one to fulfill the 2nd coming. I have heard your teachings and I find it inconsistent with the bible prophecy.

2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

Matthew 28:19 — Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

The wmscog insisted for people to be baptize immediately as what happened in my case when I refused many times. They do this to increase registered members. Did Jesus told the disciples that they should insist to UNWILLING people that they HAVE to be baptized? No, He did not. In fact, looking at the book of Acts, the people need to BELIEVE first before being baptized.

3. The group is preoccupied with making money.

1 Corinthians 16:1-4 — Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany me.

With the term "preoccupied" it means that the group is VERY FOCUS on making money. Can you honestly say that the bible testifies that Jesus and His group were PREOCCUPIED in making money? This verse you have given is showing the process on how they collect money, I think you cannot base "preoccupation" with only this verse. Was Jesus rich or was ever rich during His lifetime? No. Is the WMSCOG rich? YES. (I will leave Ahn out of this since I believe that he did not claim to be Jesus).

4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

James 1:6-7 — But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;

This verse was not talking about doubting the TEACHINGS. Here, read it starting on verse 5: "If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind…" If you analyze this one carefully, this is talking about ASKING for something in faith. It says that WHEN you ask, you must believe and not doubt. I think the verse you have given does not coincide with point #4.  Do you have any other supporting verses?  

5. Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

Acts 2:4 — All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

The mind-numbing techniques were used to "suppress doubts" about the group. Since there is no proof that Jesus and His disciples were just using these methods to "suppress doubts" then I cannot apply it to them also. It was not even stated in that situation that the "speaking in tongues" happened during a time where people were doubting.

You might ask, what techniques are used by wmscog? I could say the denunciation sessions and debilitating work routines are used, don't you agree?

6. The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).

Matthew 8:21-22 — Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

LOL. I will concede with this one. So I guess that's one point for you. ^_^

7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).

Mark 16:15-16 — He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

This is the same with point #1. Again I would repeat, Jesus was proven to be a Messiah, based on the prophecies but never was he arrogant and was instead humble. It is your turn to prove Ahn is also one. BTW, I see a lot of wmscog followers acting like they already own heaven as they go judging and condemning people to hell. It does not give a very good image.

8. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.

1 John 5:19 — We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

I will concede with this one also. Two points. But I have to point out that Jesus' disciples did not go out of their way fighting and hating other religions. As you can see all over the internet, there are wmscog members who fought back and even SUE people that they claim who "slanders"them. So that  kinda breaks the point of Romans 12:17-19.

9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).

John 8:14-16 — Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

Let's look at the situation. Since Jesus DIED in the hands of authorities, I think you cannot claim points for this one.

10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).

If by you saying this you are trying to say that the WMSCOG has bogus charities please name them. However an example of how "ends justify the means"

Nope, I do not claim WMSCOG has bogus charities. But if you want one example of "end justify the means", here's one. In WMSCOG's video entitled Come to Heavenly Mother, they have claim that the U.S have awarded Zhang (or was it Cheol?) something that was supposed to be for U.S citizens only. One pro-wmscog forum member stated that "we did it to glorify God" which kinda admits that the award was a lie afterall. So I guess that one's applicable with point #10.

Matthew 10:16 — I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

Seriously, you are going to give this verse to support the "Jesus can be also cult" concept? It is stated here that they were being sent out like SHEEP among WOLVES which actually implies the danger of what they are doing. This does not mean that they were using deception to lure people in!

11. The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.

Philippians 2:12 — Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Uhmm…the actual example for # 11 is something like: "You should be ashamed of yourself for doing this or that!" I think you missed the point with the verse you gave. Don't give me a vague verse for this, give me a situation where Jesus or His disciples actually INDUCED guilt feelings to control members in doing what they want or to prevent them from leaving. Can you? 

12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.

Matthew 10:37-39 — “Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

I will concede with this one since Jesus did say Himself that He came not to bring peace but division. Three points. Though I also have to point out that Jesus was NOT forcing anyone to follow Him. He just told them and they just follow and I've not seen any bible verse of parents complaining that their son/daughter was ENSLAVED by His group.

13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.

Acts 2:46 — Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts.

By "inordinate" it means excessive like 12 hours a day, 5 times a week, like you are practically living with them…Can you say this is applicable to what the disciples did? As you can read point 13 states "members are EXPECTED" meaning this is COMPULSORY. I cannot fit this situation with the biblical verse you gave me. Their meeting together in the temple court was to share a meal and as you can see they just ate together with GLAD and SINCERE hearts, it was voluntary and not compulsory.

14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

1 Corinthians 5:11 — But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

I think you just twisted another scipture again. The verse's point is that you do not associate with sinful people, those who have VICES. The point in verse 14 is that most cults will ISOLATE you from other people (may they be good or bad) that do not practice the same beliefs as you.

 

 

So all in all, applying the 14 characteristics with Jesus and His followers, I can honestly say that they do not fit the cult criteria. Since  you must atleast have half of the 14 characteristics and I can see only 3 then I can now safely say that they are not a CULT. Thank you. ^__^

 

Your turn Time, apply the 14 Characteristics to WMSCOG, how many fits the criteria? 

 

[Elievalkyrie]

Time, I will admit that you have a very valid argument, let me endevour to make a good one out of it. The problem with your argument is that those verses you have taken aren't seen in situations. Let's examine this one by one to see the difference shall we?

 

Time wrote:

In this case Jesus and his disciples were part of a cult too.

1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.

Matthew 26:35 – 35 — But Peter declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.

Since Jesus was the prophesied Son of God, it is acceptable that Peter would follow Him this way. It is proven through the prophecies and I will only believe Ahn to be Jesus if you also prove to me through prophecies that he was the one to fulfill the 2nd coming. I have heard your teachings and I find it inconsistent with the bible prophecy.

2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

Matthew 28:19 — Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

The wmscog insisted for people to be baptize immediately as what happened in my case when I refused many times. They do this to increase registered members. Did Jesus told the disciples that they should insist to UNWILLING people that they HAVE to be baptized? No, He did not. In fact, looking at the book of Acts, the people need to BELIEVE first before being baptized.

3. The group is preoccupied with making money.

1 Corinthians 16:1-4 — Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany me.

With the term "preoccupied" it means that the group is VERY FOCUS on making money. Can you honestly say that the bible testifies that Jesus and His group were PREOCCUPIED in making money? This verse you have given is showing the process on how they collect money, I think you cannot base "preoccupation" with only this verse. Was Jesus rich or was ever rich during His lifetime? No. Is the WMSCOG rich? YES. (I will leave Ahn out of this since I believe that he did not claim to be Jesus).

4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

James 1:6-7 — But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;

This verse was not talking about doubting the TEACHINGS. Here, read it starting on verse 5: "If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind…" If you analyze this one carefully, this is talking about ASKING for something in faith. It says that WHEN you ask, you must believe and not doubt. I think the verse you have given does not coincide with point #4.  Do you have any other supporting verses?  

5. Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

Acts 2:4 — All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

The mind-numbing techniques were used to "suppress doubts" about the group. Since there is no proof that Jesus and His disciples were just using these methods to "suppress doubts" then I cannot apply it to them also. It was not even stated in that situation that the "speaking in tongues" happened during a time where people were doubting.

You might ask, what techniques are used by wmscog? I could say the denunciation sessions and debilitating work routines are used, don't you agree?

6. The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).

Matthew 8:21-22 — Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

LOL. I will concede with this one. So I guess that's one point for you. ^_^

7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).

Mark 16:15-16 — He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

This is the same with point #1. Again I would repeat, Jesus was proven to be a Messiah, based on the prophecies but never was he arrogant and was instead humble. It is your turn to prove Ahn is also one. BTW, I see a lot of wmscog followers acting like they already own heaven as they go judging and condemning people to hell. It does not give a very good image.

8. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.

1 John 5:19 — We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

I will concede with this one also. Two points. But I have to point out that Jesus' disciples did not go out of their way fighting and hating other religions. As you can see all over the internet, there are wmscog members who fought back and even SUE people that they claim who "slanders"them. So that  kinda breaks the point of Romans 12:17-19.

9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).

John 8:14-16 — Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

Let's look at the situation. Since Jesus DIED in the hands of authorities, I think you cannot claim points for this one.

10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).

If by you saying this you are trying to say that the WMSCOG has bogus charities please name them. However an example of how "ends justify the means"

Nope, I do not claim WMSCOG has bogus charities. But if you want one example of "end justify the means", here's one. In WMSCOG's video entitled Come to Heavenly Mother, they have claim that the U.S have awarded Zhang (or was it Cheol?) something that was supposed to be for U.S citizens only. One pro-wmscog forum member stated that "we did it to glorify God" which kinda admits that the award was a lie afterall. So I guess that one's applicable with point #10.

Matthew 10:16 — I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

Seriously, you are going to give this verse to support the "Jesus can be also cult" concept? It is stated here that they were being sent out like SHEEP among WOLVES which actually implies the danger of what they are doing. This does not mean that they were using deception to lure people in!

11. The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.

Philippians 2:12 — Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Uhmm…the actual example for # 11 is something like: "You should be ashamed of yourself for doing this or that!" I think you missed the point with the verse you gave. Don't give me a vague verse for this, give me a situation where Jesus or His disciples actually INDUCED guilt feelings to control members in doing what they want or to prevent them from leaving. Can you? 

12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.

Matthew 10:37-39 — “Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

I will concede with this one since Jesus did say Himself that He came not to bring peace but division. Three points. Though I also have to point out that Jesus was NOT forcing anyone to follow Him. He just told them and they just follow and I've not seen any bible verse of parents complaining that their son/daughter was ENSLAVED by His group.

13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.

Acts 2:46 — Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts.

By "inordinate" it means excessive like 12 hours a day, 5 times a week, like you are practically living with them…Can you say this is applicable to what the disciples did? As you can read point 13 states "members are EXPECTED" meaning this is COMPULSORY. I cannot fit this situation with the biblical verse you gave me. Their meeting together in the temple court was to share a meal and as you can see they just ate together with GLAD and SINCERE hearts, it was voluntary and not compulsory.

14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

1 Corinthians 5:11 — But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

I think you just twisted another scipture again. The verse's point is that you do not associate with sinful people, those who have VICES. The point in verse 14 is that most cults will ISOLATE you from other people (may they be good or bad) that do not practice the same beliefs as you.

 

 

So all in all, applying the 14 characteristics with Jesus and His followers, I can honestly say that they do not fit the cult criteria. Since  you must atleast have half of the 14 characteristics and I can see only 3 then I can now safely say that they are not a CULT. Thank you. ^__^

 

Your turn Time, apply the 14 Characteristics to WMSCOG, how many fits the criteria? 

 

[MountainMom]

I think the wmscog is a cult based on my studies.  However, I wouldn't feel one bit better about this group even if 20 cult experts told me it wasn't a cult, and I'm sure none of you would either.  It's about the harm they do to our loved ones and the destruction of relationships, not the label.  This is why I stopped calling it a cult to my relative, which was helpful to our communication.    

[MountainMom]

I think the wmscog is a cult based on my studies.  However, I wouldn't feel one bit better about this group even if 20 cult experts told me it wasn't a cult, and I'm sure none of you would either.  It's about the harm they do to our loved ones and the destruction of relationships, not the label.  This is why I stopped calling it a cult to my relative, which was helpful to our communication.    

[Elievalkyrie]

Yes, sad to say MountainMom that it is my turn to experience bad things with wmscog right now. Just like your loved-one, my brother has now become secretive with me. Allow me to share a little bit of life story and my current situation now.

My brother and I were very close. We were not always like this, I remember that we use to fight all the time when we were kids. But one day, he and I started talking about anything under the sun out of boredom and we became almost like best friends after that. I always shared everything with him and him with me. He was not a strong person but I knew that he would protect me from anything harmful. Not everyone can claim that they are very close with their siblings and so I am thankful to God that He gave that kind of gift to me. 

Then my brother started joining wmscog and he (believing that he was saving my soul) preached to me their beliefs, ask me to visit him and brought me to their zion's location where I was forcely baptize. Since I trusted him, I tried to understand and embrace their teachings…But just listening to them teach the bible incorrectly bothered me and I started reading the bible after that. I learned much and I discussed their teachings with my brother and we fought and fought because he wouldn't accept my point.

Then I had to transfer to a different city. The change was gradual but it's noticeable. He doesn't talk to me anything related with wmscog. My brother, who used to tell me everything, is now hiding secrets. Also I can assume that since he stopped preaching to me now that he has given up the hope of "saving" me as he once wanted.

It hurts me to think that he can just cast me out like that. But I don't blame him, I blame wmscog because this is what they do to families. I don't think when Jesus established Christianity, He caused His followers to be secretive to their loved ones. Yes, Jesus caused division but I don't think that He caused heartache to His followers and their families. They preached the truth and continued to do so even when people persecuted them. They didn't fought back just as Jesus did not fought back unlike what the wmscog is doing. 

Trying to hack this site that is against them, suing people, claiming grand awards that are not theirs… So many things that so obvious that they are not a true church. That is why I will keep fighting because I believe that our cause is for the right thing.

[Elievalkyrie]

Yes, sad to say MountainMom that it is my turn to experience bad things with wmscog right now. Just like your loved-one, my brother has now become secretive with me. Allow me to share a little bit of life story and my current situation now.

My brother and I were very close. We were not always like this, I remember that we use to fight all the time when we were kids. But one day, he and I started talking about anything under the sun out of boredom and we became almost like best friends after that. I always shared everything with him and him with me. He was not a strong person but I knew that he would protect me from anything harmful. Not everyone can claim that they are very close with their siblings and so I am thankful to God that He gave that kind of gift to me. 

Then my brother started joining wmscog and he (believing that he was saving my soul) preached to me their beliefs, ask me to visit him and brought me to their zion's location where I was forcely baptize. Since I trusted him, I tried to understand and embrace their teachings…But just listening to them teach the bible incorrectly bothered me and I started reading the bible after that. I learned much and I discussed their teachings with my brother and we fought and fought because he wouldn't accept my point.

Then I had to transfer to a different city. The change was gradual but it's noticeable. He doesn't talk to me anything related with wmscog. My brother, who used to tell me everything, is now hiding secrets. Also I can assume that since he stopped preaching to me now that he has given up the hope of "saving" me as he once wanted.

It hurts me to think that he can just cast me out like that. But I don't blame him, I blame wmscog because this is what they do to families. I don't think when Jesus established Christianity, He caused His followers to be secretive to their loved ones. Yes, Jesus caused division but I don't think that He caused heartache to His followers and their families. They preached the truth and continued to do so even when people persecuted them. They didn't fought back just as Jesus did not fought back unlike what the wmscog is doing. 

Trying to hack this site that is against them, suing people, claiming grand awards that are not theirs… So many things that so obvious that they are not a true church. That is why I will keep fighting because I believe that our cause is for the right thing.

[fromtheotherside]

yea maybe he doesn't talk to you cuz you persecute him????

See how you fought and fought cuz he won't accept your point?? 

You're blind if you don't see that you are the problem.  

See how mountain says she stopped talking bad about the church and her loved one opened up again… 

[fromtheotherside]

yea maybe he doesn't talk to you cuz you persecute him????

See how you fought and fought cuz he won't accept your point?? 

You're blind if you don't see that you are the problem.  

See how mountain says she stopped talking bad about the church and her loved one opened up again… 

[Sarah2013]

Man…. I wonder about you guys….. What does, “you are blind if you don’t see you are the problem mean?”

[Sarah2013]

Man…. I wonder about you guys….. What does, “you are blind if you don’t see you are the problem mean?”

[Joshua]

Disagreeing is NOT persecuting! This is where the freedom disappears. At what point do you have to give up your own views in order to talk to someone? Who is blind here?

[Joshua]

Disagreeing is NOT persecuting! This is where the freedom disappears. At what point do you have to give up your own views in order to talk to someone? Who is blind here?

[Elievalkyrie]

How can a question about your religion persecute you? Don't take the "fought" literally, what I meant about it was that we argued a lot because he is close minded and doesn't accept my ideas. He is right and nothing I said was right to him, wmscog trained him good to make him think like that now. And if you think MountainMom is having the best time of her life because her loved one "opened" up again, ask again.

I really don't care what you think FTOS. It's clear you are as close minded as most of the rest of them are. I am sharing this to people who actually experienced the same as I did so that they would know that they are not the only ones that the wmscog ruined. Attack me if you want, just as wmscog attacked those people who says things against them. I'm not gonna stop spreading the truth about wmscog.

[Elievalkyrie]

How can a question about your religion persecute you? Don't take the "fought" literally, what I meant about it was that we argued a lot because he is close minded and doesn't accept my ideas. He is right and nothing I said was right to him, wmscog trained him good to make him think like that now. And if you think MountainMom is having the best time of her life because her loved one "opened" up again, ask again.

I really don't care what you think FTOS. It's clear you are as close minded as most of the rest of them are. I am sharing this to people who actually experienced the same as I did so that they would know that they are not the only ones that the wmscog ruined. Attack me if you want, just as wmscog attacked those people who says things against them. I'm not gonna stop spreading the truth about wmscog.