[fromtheotherside]

“From this same Catholic Church you have accepted your Sunday, and that Sunday, as the Lord’s day, she has handed down as a tradition; and the entire Protestant world has accepted it as tradition, for you have not an iota of Scripture to establish it. Therefore that which you have accepted as your rule of faith, in­adequate as it of course is, as well as your Sunday, you have accepted on the authority of the Roman Catholic Church” (D.B. Ray;">The Papal Controversy, p. 179, 1892).

[Elievalkyrie]

[Elievalkyrie]

Which covenant are you talking about? There are seven covenants God established to different people.

[Elievalkyrie]

Which covenant are you talking about? There are seven covenants God established to different people.

[Simon]

the one made at mount horeb vs the one Jesus made

[Simon]

the one made at mount horeb vs the one Jesus made

[Elievalkyrie]

Oh, you are talking about the Mosaic Covenant? Here's a bit of info about it. Mosaic Covenant (Deuteronomy 11; et al.). The Mosaic Covenant was a conditional covenant that either brought God's direct blessing for obedience or God's direct cursing for disobedience upon the nation of Israel. Part of the Mosaic Covenant was the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20) and the rest of the Law, which contained over 600 commands—roughly 300 positive and 300 negative. The history books of the Old Testament (Joshua–Esther) detail how Israel succeeded at obeying the Law or how Israel failed miserably at obeying the Law. Deuteronomy 11:26-28 details the blessing/cursing motif. Is there a statement in the bible that even non-Jewish people need to partake in the Mosaic Covenant? (I'm talking about uncircumcised gentiles.)

[Elievalkyrie]

Oh, you are talking about the Mosaic Covenant? Here's a bit of info about it. Mosaic Covenant (Deuteronomy 11; et al.). The Mosaic Covenant was a conditional covenant that either brought God's direct blessing for obedience or God's direct cursing for disobedience upon the nation of Israel. Part of the Mosaic Covenant was the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20) and the rest of the Law, which contained over 600 commands—roughly 300 positive and 300 negative. The history books of the Old Testament (Joshua–Esther) detail how Israel succeeded at obeying the Law or how Israel failed miserably at obeying the Law. Deuteronomy 11:26-28 details the blessing/cursing motif. Is there a statement in the bible that even non-Jewish people need to partake in the Mosaic Covenant? (I'm talking about uncircumcised gentiles.)

[Simon]

yes people debate on how the two relate

[Simon]

yes people debate on how the two relate

[Elievalkyrie]

How do people relate these two covenants?

[Elievalkyrie]

How do people relate these two covenants?

[Simon]

depends who you ask all that’s generally agreed is mosaic is a shadow but what that actually means is debated

Romans 11 is used to debate if we’re Israel

even non wmscog disagrees on a lot of this

[Simon]

depends who you ask all that’s generally agreed is mosaic is a shadow but what that actually means is debated

Romans 11 is used to debate if we’re Israel

even non wmscog disagrees on a lot of this

[Elievalkyrie]

There are three topics in Romans 11 if you use the bible gateway reference. The Remnant of Israel, Ingrafted Branches and All Israel Will Be Saved. Which one do they use for the debate?

[Elievalkyrie]

There are three topics in Romans 11 if you use the bible gateway reference. The Remnant of Israel, Ingrafted Branches and All Israel Will Be Saved. Which one do they use for the debate?

[emil]

fromtheotherside wrote:

Yes many churches do keep the sabbath now a days.  Not all keep it correctly, but some do.  It is a starting point though, So we can conclude then the ones who don't keep it as false, so that takes away 90% of the christian denominations. 

We can conclude no such thing. You can't use that argument to send 90% of christians to hell. The new testament affirms 9 of the 10 commandments several times. Keeping the Sabbath is the only commandment that is not affirmed in the NT.

In fact, the Pharisees specifically targetted Jesus' incorrect keeping of the sabbath and Jesus put up a clear-cut argument against them. He also affirmed that the Sabbath was made for man and not the other way around.

The wmscog loves to quote a couple of verses from Gal 4. I would like to point out that those verses must be understood in the context of Gal chapters 1-5. Paul clearly speaks against the idea of salvation through works of the law which includes the sabbath.

[emil]

fromtheotherside wrote:

Yes many churches do keep the sabbath now a days.  Not all keep it correctly, but some do.  It is a starting point though, So we can conclude then the ones who don't keep it as false, so that takes away 90% of the christian denominations. 

We can conclude no such thing. You can't use that argument to send 90% of christians to hell. The new testament affirms 9 of the 10 commandments several times. Keeping the Sabbath is the only commandment that is not affirmed in the NT.

In fact, the Pharisees specifically targetted Jesus' incorrect keeping of the sabbath and Jesus put up a clear-cut argument against them. He also affirmed that the Sabbath was made for man and not the other way around.

The wmscog loves to quote a couple of verses from Gal 4. I would like to point out that those verses must be understood in the context of Gal chapters 1-5. Paul clearly speaks against the idea of salvation through works of the law which includes the sabbath.

[Sarah2013]

Emil, thanks for pointing those out in your response.

[Simon]

Sabbath is repeated in Matthew 24 and Hebrews and one can presume the 4th when everything else so clearly kept the original moedim

[fromtheotherside]

Joshua wrote:

I agree with Simon that this topic isn't a particularly wonderful argument for discerning truth. Christians in the early church were set appart and in the minority by meeting on Sunday instead of Saturday. Most other religious groups of the time met on Saturdays making the Christians seem rather strange thus making them a target for other groups. It would have been much easier to go with the world and meet on Saturdays but that was not the example that Jesus set after the resurrection. How many lives could have been spared if only the early church chose to follow along with everyone else.

Actualy history points out that Saturday was the of worship for the early church, up until a gradual change uccured starting from the churchs around rome. Which started around 100ad.  The Apostles were the only ones who kept this change from occuring and they speak about it in the bible and they even express about changes being made that they are trying to stop.  Actually it wasn't the christians that kept sunday that were persecuted but sabbath.  That is historical.  The Christians who changed and kept sunday were givin refuge and started to persecute the christians who kept what they were taught by the apostles, which is Sabbath.  

[Elievalkyrie]

On what day did the early church meet for worship? Scripture never mentions any Sabbath (Saturday) gatherings by believers for fellowship or worship. However, there are clear passages that mention the first day of the week. For instance, Acts 20:7 states that “on the first day of the week we came together to break bread.” In 1 Corinthians 16:2 Paul urges the Corinthian believers “on the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income.” Since Paul designates this offering as “service” in 2 Corinthians 9:12, this collection must have been linked with the Sunday worship service of the Christian assembly. Historically Sunday, not Saturday, was the normal meeting day for Christians in the church, and its practice dates back to the first century.