- Topic
“From this same Catholic Church you have accepted your Sunday, and that Sunday, as the Lord’s day, she has handed down as a tradition; and the entire Protestant world has accepted it as tradition, for you have not an iota of Scripture to establish it. Therefore that which you have accepted as your rule of faith, inadequate as it of course is, as well as your Sunday, you have accepted on the authority of the Roman Catholic Church” (D.B. Ray;">The Papal Controversy, p. 179, 1892).
I get what you're saying Simon. But I would like to know why Jesus mentions Sabbath in the context of the inability to flee. Do you believe it means that Jesus wanted people to keep sabbath that way?
Emil, I really must commend your God given wisdom. It is not easy to do these in depth studies. Simon makes a lot of points also. I’m curious to hear this answer. You guys have more awareness in that arena.
I think He meant that you should not be focusing on fleeing when you're keeping the Sabbath.
Yet when his disciples were plucking grain and eating on the sabbath, it was commendable?
I gave the analogy of a hungry man entering a building to feed himself when suddenly there is danger of the building collapsing. Which is the more imperative need? Filling his stomach or fleeing the calamity?
But those are both physical things. If I believed in Jesus and had to choose between worshipping Jesus and eating I would choose Jesus. I know this because I believed in F&M and chose Them over my physical needs. It was ok to pick grain on the Sabbath. Apparently God doesn't see that as breaking the Sabbath.
Lets face it though. There was something missing at those sabbaths.
renita.payno wrote:
But those are both physical things. If I believed in Jesus and had to choose between worshipping Jesus and eating I would choose Jesus. I know this because I believed in F&M and chose Them over my physical needs. It was ok to pick grain on the Sabbath. Apparently God doesn't see that as breaking the Sabbath.
One does not have to elimate the other. One could worship on a given day and eat as well. At wmscog, you would still eat I guess. Sabbath keeping of the OT does not prevent eating as far as I know. But it does prevent the work involved in preparation.
I understand they are both physical things. I am asking if our current understanding of how we are required to keep the sabbath allows us to flee a calamity or not.
Hypothetically speaking, what would happen at a zion if there was a rumbling and the building started to shake? Would people be asked to remain in there quietly or would they be asked to get out in the open?
Well… This is a bit off subject, but we all do need to make preparations for disaster time because it is coming. Not to scare anyone, WWIII. Maybe not now but it will happen.
I'm not saying that you can't eat on the Sabbath. I'm saying if I were given a choice. If, at the time, F&M said that all of my food supply would be cut off if I worshipped them, I would starve to death. I think, if we had to choose, not that we currently have to choose, anyone who believes in Jesus should always worship Him over anything else.
People would be asked to stay and pray. If F&M meant for them to worship some place else, Mother would have said so. So, if the building fell on their heads during service, at least they died in the 'truth'.
I agree on that, Renita.
We don’t want that to happen, the same way even Satanist deserve a chance. ๐
renita.payno wrote:
I'm not saying that you can't eat on the Sabbath. I'm saying if I were given a choice. If, at the time, F&M said that all of my food supply would be cut off if I worshipped them, I would starve to death. I think, if we had to choose, not that we currently have to choose, anyone who believes in Jesus should always worship Him over anything else.
Would that be only on the Sabbath or every day?
It would be everyday, especially on the Sabbath.
Thank you Renita. I agree it should be every day.
Which still leaves us with my question –
emil wrote:
I understand they are both physical things. I am asking if our current understanding of how we are required to keep the sabbath allows us to flee a calamity or not.
Sarah2013 wrote:
We don't want that to happen, the same way even Satanist deserve a chance. ๐
Satanism is a form of atheism for the record…
emil wrote:
Thank you Renita. I agree it should be every day.
Which still leaves us with my question –
emil wrote:
I understand they are both physical things. I am asking if our current understanding of how we are required to keep the sabbath allows us to flee a calamity or not.
Let's say we kept the Sabbath as kept by all major branches of Judaism or as I would keep it now or how I did then in all of those cases I would have felt it appropriate to flee a disaster/calamity. The scripture teaches the importance of the gift of life.
So far as why Jesus would say pray your flight doesn't take place on Sabbath I wouldn't know, other than it would suck to miss Sabbath even if it weren't a sin.
Simon Wrote: Satanism is a form of atheism for the record…
@ Simon:
Not accurate, Simon. Real Satanist believe in Satan (Lucifer, the devil). Same way christians believe in God. Look up Anton Lavey.
Here is your wiki definition of atheism: Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
An atheist holds to the school of thought that there is no God. A satanist believes there is a God but that god is literally Satan. This isn’t made up it’s real. Atheist are not satanic worshippers. Can’t make sense that way. They do not believe in the existence of any God/god(s) at all.
Thank you Simon. So I guess we agree to disagree on this point. I believe Jesus is acknowledging that there will be Sabbath keepers of the OT kind who will be unable to flee. You think Jesus endorses the keeping of the Sabbath because he mentions to pray about it. My belief is based on the fact that Jesus would certainly give priority to fleeing, if required, on the Sabbath. Your belief is based on the possibility that Jesus means we should pray about it because he wouldn't want us to miss the sabbath as far as possible.
One more point to ponder on. To the best of my knowledge, the Saturday Sabbath, as taught by the SDA is that the whole of creation keeps the sabbath at the same time. According to this teaching, the sabbath rest happens simultaneously in heaven and in the universe. God and the angels also keep the sabbath. Is my understanding right?
Did I say fleeing and eating lunch are the same? My question is about which is the more imperative human need.
In my previous post in this thread, I have also asked a question about sabbath teaching. Could you please answer that? Does the WMSCOG teach that God in heaven, his angels, and all creation in the universe keep the sabbath simultaneously every week during the same moments in time?
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