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“From this same Catholic Church you have accepted your Sunday, and that Sunday, as the Lord’s day, she has handed down as a tradition; and the entire Protestant world has accepted it as tradition, for you have not an iota of Scripture to establish it. Therefore that which you have accepted as your rule of faith, inadequate as it of course is, as well as your Sunday, you have accepted on the authority of the Roman Catholic Church” (D.B. Ray;">The Papal Controversy, p. 179, 1892).
Since the Sabbath is a day of rest created for man wouldn't it stand to reason that Jesus was refering to not getting the appropriate rest at that time? A woman with child would have a hard time traveling and a man without rest would be having a more dificult time as well.
FTOS – your basic knowledge of history needs an update. When did Islam begin?
And regarding sabbath, my point is to Simon and he understands what I mean. The difference between endorsing and acknowldeging. As for you, it is better that you read a few verses later; Mt24:23-24. That is for you.
Simple question. Look at the verse again. Is there a command, endorsement or acknowledgement?
The command, in the form of a suggestion, is to pray.
The rest of it is not an endorsement or command. It is merely an acknowledgement that it could be winter or some could be keeping their sabbath rest at the time.
It does not matter whether "Pray" is a command or a suggestion. Do you understand my point? You gave an example. I'll give you a more appropriate one. "Pray that you do not get cholera or typhoid or dysentry"
What is the command? Pray
Does it mean I endorse cholera or another disease? It just means I acknowledge they exist and are a reality. In fact, if anything, I acknowledge that they are bad but exist.
Joshua wrote:
Since the Sabbath is a day of rest created for man wouldn't it stand to reason that Jesus was refering to not getting the appropriate rest at that time? A woman with child would have a hard time traveling and a man without rest would be having a more dificult time as well.
I don't think that makes sense because Jesus never treated the Sabbath as a day of rest. That's OT stuff.
emil wrote:
It does not matter whether "Pray" is a command or a suggestion. Do you understand my point? You gave an example. I'll give you a more appropriate one. "Pray that you do not get cholera or typhoid or dysentry"
What is the command? Pray
Does it mean I endorse cholera or another disease? It just means I acknowledge they exist and are a reality. In fact, if anything, I acknowledge that they are bad but exist.
If pray that your flight etc. was a command, then why don't people say that prayer?
Simon? This discussion about Mt 24 was initiated by you. You believedthat in this verse Jesus was explicitly commanding/endorsing the saturday sabbath. I believe he was merely acknowledging it. What do you think now? If you still feel Jesus was endorsing, I can show you logically why he was not.
I believe He was acknowledging it as well. The explanation given me, which also makes sense to me, is why would He mention it if it were obselete? Stoning has been done away with along with animal sacrifices. But they weren't mentioned in the NT unless it said something along the lines of, 'We don't do that anymore.'
The WMSCOG says that the Sabbath is so important that even on the last day, during the destruction, if it were the Sabbath we would still have to keep it. Jesus said, 'Pray that your flight not take place on the Sabbath' because it would be very difficult to keep the Sabbath while the world around you is crumbling to pieces and everyone is dying. The fact that He's mentioning the Sabbath, defined as the 7th day of the week in the bible, shows us that it is not obselete. If it were, why would it matter if the destruction happened on the Sabbath?
Ok it is time for me to explain the logic of what I am saying. The question is what does Jesus mean about the Sabbath in Mt 24:20. Is he commanding the sabbath, endorsing it, or acknowledging it? Is this sabbath the old OT rules one or the new rules?
We have the following 6 possibilities. Let me know if any are missed out.
1. Jesus explicitly commands us to keep the sabbath the OT way.
2. Jesus supports keeing the sabbath the OT way.
3. Jesus acknowledges that there will exist people who will keep the sabbath the OT way.
4. Jesus explicitly commands us to keep the sabbath the NT way.
5. Jesus supports keeing the sabbath the NT way.
6. Jesus acknowledges that there will exist people who will keep the sabbath the NT way.
To understand what he meant, we need to do two things; understand the context of the verse in this passage and understand the mind of Jesus.
Let us first do the latter. Take a look at Mt 12:1-14. First Jesus affirms that the breaking of strict sabbath regulation about work is perfectly ok when man has to feed himself. Note that this is not even a situation where the disciples could have died of hunger. It doesn't seem to have been a life and death situation. Yet Jesus gives their stomachs higher priority than keeping sabbath rules. In the next case, he heals the man with the shrivelled hand. The task could have waited another day. But the man's physical well being is more important to Jesus than sabbath keeping. Here he says He is Lord of the Sabbath. Telling the same story, Mark in chapter 2 also quotes "Sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
This is Jesus' mindset. Suppose this same Jesus is now in your midst and there is a hurricane warning and an announcement to evacuate. It is the sabbath day. What do you think Jesus would tell you? No you cannot flee on the sabbath? Or would he say, "we must do everything to not only flee but help others flee."
We saw Jesus expressing that assuaging hunger and restoring physical health is more important than keeping the sabbath rules. Human life is vastly more important than just temporary hunger or a physical illness. For Jesus, human life would be vastly more important than sabbath keeping. That would be the mind of Christ.
Now we come to Mt 24:15 onwards to look at the context of the quoted verse. The whole context is about fleeing the calamity. Having just seen the mind of Jesus in chapter 12, can we understand this to mean that Jesus means, "Pray because if it happens to be the Sabbath, you should not flee"? Could that be what he means? If he is the same Jesus who we just encountered in chapter 12, he would want them to flee. If Jesus was indeed talking about the NT way of keeping the sabbath, he wouldn't need to say that because they would know they can flee based on our understanding of his compassion. I suppose this means we can safely eliminate the last 3 options I mentioned above. He can't mean options 4, 5 and 6 because our NT way allows us to flee the calamity.
The OT sabbath keepers cannot flee. Hence he is talking about the OT sabbath keepers who need to make such a prayer. If he was commanding, He wouldn't have said to pray it doesn't happen on such a day. He would have said something like, "stay put and keep the sabbath because God will protect good sabbath keeper." The Jesus we know from Mt 12 would have expected and encouraged people to flee. Jesus is not giving this instruction for the ones who will stay faithful to him. It is an instruction for those who are unable to flee the calamity because of their own insistence on following OT rules of the sabbath.
The Jesus we know from Mt 12 would not issue a command that prevents fleeing the calamity. The Jesus from Mt 12 who could not wait one more day to heal a man, who wanted his disciples to not be hungry on the sabbath would not be one who would even endorse the idea of not fleeing.
The only option remaining is 3. Jesus acknowledges that there will be people who will still be keeping the OT sabbath when this time comes and he tells them to pray that this event does not happen on a day when they will not allow themselves to flee.
That was the long version for anyone who has the patience to read it. The short version is this.
Integral with the understanding of Mt 24:20 is the fact that the ones Jesus is refering to will be unable to flee if the events happen on the Sabbath. Thinking that the verse shows Jesus endorses such a sabbath keeping, implies Jesus endorses that method of sabbath keeping that would prevent saving of human life. Now this same Jesus always put human need to live above keeping the sabbath rules as seen in the first half of Mt 12 and several other times. Therefore, it cannot be that Jesus is endorsing keeping the sabbath and not fleeing at such a time. It just means that Jesus agrees that there will be people who keep sabbath that way and such people would need to pray that the event does not happen on a sabbath day.
The way others keep sabbath doesn’t affect you
Good analysis Emil. I read the long version. 🙂
Ok so you say fleeing on the sabbath is a problem because it takes the focus off. How about walking through fields and plucking grain and eating?
BTW, the bible does not link keeping the sabbath with receiving God's blessing. The only commandment linking us to God's blessing is the one to honour one's father and mother.
I have given a whoile analysis to show why Jesus is merely acknowledging the sabbath. Give me one point to show that Jesus is endorsing the sabbath. Don't make a claim without backing it up.
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