- Topic
This topic was brought up in a different post but I think it deserves a discussion of it’s own. What are the signs and wonders of these two? Please don’t post about how Jesus did things and people still didn’t believe. He still did those things and we have the account of it. What have Ahn and Zahng done?
I had been praying a question to God about something and when our sister came back from Korea Mother had sent back a relevent gift with her for me.
You cannot simply explain away the one I experienced myself NOONE knew about my question or prayer but me or God. In fact still noone knows.
even if wmc had cameras microphones key loggers and every imaginable surveillance on me they wouldn't have a way to know
Except the chair persons aren't on the buses and that still doesn't answer how she answered MY question I ONLY prayed silently about with not a single way to record. EVEN NOW there is no record outside of my brain and God's omniscience of my prayers substance.
Shimon, I can understand how this kind of experience can be compelling. Let me share with you something that happened to me.
I lead a weekly Bible study, and there was one season when I was feeling very discouraged. One evening getting things set up, I prayed for something to happen that evening. It was very specific and highly unlikely to happen, and it was not something that anyone in the group could do, and wouldn't be significant to anyone else anyway. I didn't even tell anyone about it (until after). Well, about half way through the meeting, it happened, and it was a great encouragement to think that God had heard my request and had done this thing just for me. The way it came about certainly did not appear to be just a coincidence.
If the way your prayer to 'Mother God' was answered shows that she is truly God, does the way my prayer to my God was answered shows that He is truly God? (Remember I do NOT pray to Ahn or Zahng, so don't say that we were praying to the same Gods.)
About the other 'miracles' that have been mentioned…
Tomatoes and pizza — In an international group of even a small size, you are going to have people who like tomatoes and pizza. Serve them and you are bound to please someone, especially someone who might be nervous about eating unfamiliar food. Serve hamburgers, and someone in the group will say, "Oh, I was really craving a hamburger. How did 'mother' know?" And especially if you actually hear someone say they want pizza or hamburger, all you have to do it text ahead so your friends can get it ready. (And why not serve tomatoes in a fruit bowl? I would do it too if it were the right size.)
Waving and the peace sign — Again, in any group, people will want to be acknowledged. Look at anyone and wave or give a peace sign (VERY popular in Asia, I know from personal experience), and you will please someone and make them feel special, especially when they are hoping to be noticed by 'mother'.
About the high five 'levitation' — From pictures, 'mother' looks average height, and wears dresses to the floor. I can imagine her simply rocking up on her tiptoes and reaching her hand up, and it would be quick enough that no one would be looking down at her feet.
I can tell you another that my sister shared from her trip to Korea. She said there was a sister who was really wanting to meet 'mother' personally and didn't. Then one night she had to go down the hall to the bathroom, and there was 'mother'. My sister said, How could 'mother' have known that this girl had wanted to much to meet her and known to find her there in the hall?
Well, with so many people who you know want to meet you personally, and building set up in such a way, all 'mother' has to do is roam the halls for a little while at night, and she is bound to run into someone who will be so happy to see her.
Lots of these things are easily done by doing something general enough that it will apply to at least some people in the group, and since they are already of a mindset to look for answered prayers, they will think it is specifically meant for them.
This is similar to a 'psychic' working a room of people… "I sense a person here who has lost someone dear to them." or "There is someone in this room having a conflict at work." Well, of course. Probability would tell you that there's bound to be at least one person for each scenario, and they will think you had them in mind the whole time.
What I'm really curious about is if Ahnsahnghong or Zahng Gil Ja have performed any healing miracles. I have a friend who was healed from latent tuberculosis , and a pastor who's xrays still show that his neck is basically broken (but you wouldn't know it from looking at him), and I've met his friend who was healed of cancer without any treatments. (You might try to explain these, but we credit God for these miracles.)
I had been praying a question to God about something and when our sister came back from Korea Mother had sent back a relevent gift with her for me.
You cannot simply explain away the one I experienced myself NOONE knew about my question or prayer but me or God. In fact still noone knows.
even if wmc had cameras microphones key loggers and every imaginable surveillance on me they wouldn't have a way to know
Except the chair persons aren't on the buses and that still doesn't answer how she answered MY question I ONLY prayed silently about with not a single way to record. EVEN NOW there is no record outside of my brain and God's omniscience of my prayers substance.
Shimon, I can understand how this kind of experience can be compelling. Let me share with you something that happened to me.
I lead a weekly Bible study, and there was one season when I was feeling very discouraged. One evening getting things set up, I prayed for something to happen that evening. It was very specific and highly unlikely to happen, and it was not something that anyone in the group could do, and wouldn't be significant to anyone else anyway. I didn't even tell anyone about it (until after). Well, about half way through the meeting, it happened, and it was a great encouragement to think that God had heard my request and had done this thing just for me. The way it came about certainly did not appear to be just a coincidence.
If the way your prayer to 'Mother God' was answered shows that she is truly God, does the way my prayer to my God was answered shows that He is truly God? (Remember I do NOT pray to Ahn or Zahng, so don't say that we were praying to the same Gods.)
About the other 'miracles' that have been mentioned…
Tomatoes and pizza — In an international group of even a small size, you are going to have people who like tomatoes and pizza. Serve them and you are bound to please someone, especially someone who might be nervous about eating unfamiliar food. Serve hamburgers, and someone in the group will say, "Oh, I was really craving a hamburger. How did 'mother' know?" And especially if you actually hear someone say they want pizza or hamburger, all you have to do it text ahead so your friends can get it ready. (And why not serve tomatoes in a fruit bowl? I would do it too if it were the right size.)
Waving and the peace sign — Again, in any group, people will want to be acknowledged. Look at anyone and wave or give a peace sign (VERY popular in Asia, I know from personal experience), and you will please someone and make them feel special, especially when they are hoping to be noticed by 'mother'.
About the high five 'levitation' — From pictures, 'mother' looks average height, and wears dresses to the floor. I can imagine her simply rocking up on her tiptoes and reaching her hand up, and it would be quick enough that no one would be looking down at her feet.
I can tell you another that my sister shared from her trip to Korea. She said there was a sister who was really wanting to meet 'mother' personally and didn't. Then one night she had to go down the hall to the bathroom, and there was 'mother'. My sister said, How could 'mother' have known that this girl had wanted to much to meet her and known to find her there in the hall?
Well, with so many people who you know want to meet you personally, and building set up in such a way, all 'mother' has to do is roam the halls for a little while at night, and she is bound to run into someone who will be so happy to see her.
Lots of these things are easily done by doing something general enough that it will apply to at least some people in the group, and since they are already of a mindset to look for answered prayers, they will think it is specifically meant for them.
This is similar to a 'psychic' working a room of people… "I sense a person here who has lost someone dear to them." or "There is someone in this room having a conflict at work." Well, of course. Probability would tell you that there's bound to be at least one person for each scenario, and they will think you had them in mind the whole time.
What I'm really curious about is if Ahnsahnghong or Zahng Gil Ja have performed any healing miracles. I have a friend who was healed from latent tuberculosis , and a pastor who's xrays still show that his neck is basically broken (but you wouldn't know it from looking at him), and I've met his friend who was healed of cancer without any treatments. (You might try to explain these, but we credit God for these miracles.)
ttr wrote:
shimon wrote:
That is a possibility but why would she send something to me period?
does she not send gifts to people?
also, may i ask, if you ever wrote her any letters about the matter?
I am not aware of her giving gifts in that manner as a usual event, I know she gives gifts to members who visit but I am unaware of her sending gifts back with a visitor.
genny wrote:
I had been praying a question to God about something and when our sister came back from Korea Mother had sent back a relevent gift with her for me.
You cannot simply explain away the one I experienced myself NOONE knew about my question or prayer but me or God. In fact still noone knows.
even if wmc had cameras microphones key loggers and every imaginable surveillance on me they wouldn't have a way to know
Except the chair persons aren't on the buses and that still doesn't answer how she answered MY question I ONLY prayed silently about with not a single way to record. EVEN NOW there is no record outside of my brain and God's omniscience of my prayers substance.
Shimon, I can understand how this kind of experience can be compelling. Let me share with you something that happened to me.
I lead a weekly Bible study, and there was one season when I was feeling very discouraged. One evening getting things set up, I prayed for something to happen that evening. It was very specific and highly unlikely to happen, and it was not something that anyone in the group could do, and wouldn't be significant to anyone else anyway. I didn't even tell anyone about it (until after). Well, about half way through the meeting, it happened, and it was a great encouragement to think that God had heard my request and had done this thing just for me. The way it came about certainly did not appear to be just a coincidence.
If the way your prayer to 'Mother God' was answered shows that she is truly God, does the way my prayer to my God was answered shows that He is truly God? (Remember I do NOT pray to Ahn or Zahng, so don't say that we were praying to the same Gods.)
About the other 'miracles' that have been mentioned…
Tomatoes and pizza — In an international group of even a small size, you are going to have people who like tomatoes and pizza. Serve them and you are bound to please someone, especially someone who might be nervous about eating unfamiliar food. Serve hamburgers, and someone in the group will say, "Oh, I was really craving a hamburger. How did 'mother' know?" And especially if you actually hear someone say they want pizza or hamburger, all you have to do it text ahead so your friends can get it ready. (And why not serve tomatoes in a fruit bowl? I would do it too if it were the right size.)
Waving and the peace sign — Again, in any group, people will want to be acknowledged. Look at anyone and wave or give a peace sign (VERY popular in Asia, I know from personal experience), and you will please someone and make them feel special, especially when they are hoping to be noticed by 'mother'.
About the high five 'levitation' — From pictures, 'mother' looks average height, and wears dresses to the floor. I can imagine her simply rocking up on her tiptoes and reaching her hand up, and it would be quick enough that no one would be looking down at her feet.
I can tell you another that my sister shared from her trip to Korea. She said there was a sister who was really wanting to meet 'mother' personally and didn't. Then one night she had to go down the hall to the bathroom, and there was 'mother'. My sister said, How could 'mother' have known that this girl had wanted to much to meet her and known to find her there in the hall?
Well, with so many people who you know want to meet you personally, and building set up in such a way, all 'mother' has to do is roam the halls for a little while at night, and she is bound to run into someone who will be so happy to see her.
Lots of these things are easily done by doing something general enough that it will apply to at least some people in the group, and since they are already of a mindset to look for answered prayers, they will think it is specifically meant for them.
This is similar to a 'psychic' working a room of people… "I sense a person here who has lost someone dear to them." or "There is someone in this room having a conflict at work." Well, of course. Probability would tell you that there's bound to be at least one person for each scenario, and they will think you had them in mind the whole time.
What I'm really curious about is if Ahnsahnghong or Zahng Gil Ja have performed any healing miracles. I have a friend who was healed from latent tuberculosis , and a pastor who's xrays still show that his neck is basically broken (but you wouldn't know it from looking at him), and I've met his friend who was healed of cancer without any treatments. (You might try to explain these, but we credit God for these miracles.)
Sorry to answer in random order I cannot see the order I am answering so I am trying to respond to everything as I remember
You are very unique if you'd put tomatoes in a fruit bowl but I won't accuse you of lying because I have no reason to doubt you.
Mother is not average height when compared to American members she is short and this was a very tall brother. So if this story is true that wouldn't explain it. (btw she doesn't always wear foot length dresses either and I don't know what she was wearing at the time either)
I said it proves she can access my thoughts not that she is God
as for healings it is definitive you don't need to folow God to heal or be healed without medicine. I am not impressed by Miracles nonbelievers can perform them (and I am counting "babylon pastors" as believers not nonbelievers)
ttr wrote:
shimon wrote:
That is a possibility but why would she send something to me period?
does she not send gifts to people?
also, may i ask, if you ever wrote her any letters about the matter?
I am not aware of her giving gifts in that manner as a usual event, I know she gives gifts to members who visit but I am unaware of her sending gifts back with a visitor.
genny wrote:
I had been praying a question to God about something and when our sister came back from Korea Mother had sent back a relevent gift with her for me.
You cannot simply explain away the one I experienced myself NOONE knew about my question or prayer but me or God. In fact still noone knows.
even if wmc had cameras microphones key loggers and every imaginable surveillance on me they wouldn't have a way to know
Except the chair persons aren't on the buses and that still doesn't answer how she answered MY question I ONLY prayed silently about with not a single way to record. EVEN NOW there is no record outside of my brain and God's omniscience of my prayers substance.
Shimon, I can understand how this kind of experience can be compelling. Let me share with you something that happened to me.
I lead a weekly Bible study, and there was one season when I was feeling very discouraged. One evening getting things set up, I prayed for something to happen that evening. It was very specific and highly unlikely to happen, and it was not something that anyone in the group could do, and wouldn't be significant to anyone else anyway. I didn't even tell anyone about it (until after). Well, about half way through the meeting, it happened, and it was a great encouragement to think that God had heard my request and had done this thing just for me. The way it came about certainly did not appear to be just a coincidence.
If the way your prayer to 'Mother God' was answered shows that she is truly God, does the way my prayer to my God was answered shows that He is truly God? (Remember I do NOT pray to Ahn or Zahng, so don't say that we were praying to the same Gods.)
About the other 'miracles' that have been mentioned…
Tomatoes and pizza — In an international group of even a small size, you are going to have people who like tomatoes and pizza. Serve them and you are bound to please someone, especially someone who might be nervous about eating unfamiliar food. Serve hamburgers, and someone in the group will say, "Oh, I was really craving a hamburger. How did 'mother' know?" And especially if you actually hear someone say they want pizza or hamburger, all you have to do it text ahead so your friends can get it ready. (And why not serve tomatoes in a fruit bowl? I would do it too if it were the right size.)
Waving and the peace sign — Again, in any group, people will want to be acknowledged. Look at anyone and wave or give a peace sign (VERY popular in Asia, I know from personal experience), and you will please someone and make them feel special, especially when they are hoping to be noticed by 'mother'.
About the high five 'levitation' — From pictures, 'mother' looks average height, and wears dresses to the floor. I can imagine her simply rocking up on her tiptoes and reaching her hand up, and it would be quick enough that no one would be looking down at her feet.
I can tell you another that my sister shared from her trip to Korea. She said there was a sister who was really wanting to meet 'mother' personally and didn't. Then one night she had to go down the hall to the bathroom, and there was 'mother'. My sister said, How could 'mother' have known that this girl had wanted to much to meet her and known to find her there in the hall?
Well, with so many people who you know want to meet you personally, and building set up in such a way, all 'mother' has to do is roam the halls for a little while at night, and she is bound to run into someone who will be so happy to see her.
Lots of these things are easily done by doing something general enough that it will apply to at least some people in the group, and since they are already of a mindset to look for answered prayers, they will think it is specifically meant for them.
This is similar to a 'psychic' working a room of people… "I sense a person here who has lost someone dear to them." or "There is someone in this room having a conflict at work." Well, of course. Probability would tell you that there's bound to be at least one person for each scenario, and they will think you had them in mind the whole time.
What I'm really curious about is if Ahnsahnghong or Zahng Gil Ja have performed any healing miracles. I have a friend who was healed from latent tuberculosis , and a pastor who's xrays still show that his neck is basically broken (but you wouldn't know it from looking at him), and I've met his friend who was healed of cancer without any treatments. (You might try to explain these, but we credit God for these miracles.)
Sorry to answer in random order I cannot see the order I am answering so I am trying to respond to everything as I remember
You are very unique if you'd put tomatoes in a fruit bowl but I won't accuse you of lying because I have no reason to doubt you.
Mother is not average height when compared to American members she is short and this was a very tall brother. So if this story is true that wouldn't explain it. (btw she doesn't always wear foot length dresses either and I don't know what she was wearing at the time either)
I said it proves she can access my thoughts not that she is God
as for healings it is definitive you don't need to folow God to heal or be healed without medicine. I am not impressed by Miracles nonbelievers can perform them (and I am counting "babylon pastors" as believers not nonbelievers)
ttr wrote:
shimon wrote:
That is a possibility but why would she send something to me period?
does she not send gifts to people?
also, may i ask, if you ever wrote her any letters about the matter?
I wanted to absolutly double check before answering I was very sure I had not but I wanted to have 100% confidence in my answer.
my first email to her was March 2011 she sent the gift in 2010.
ttr wrote:
shimon wrote:
That is a possibility but why would she send something to me period?
does she not send gifts to people?
also, may i ask, if you ever wrote her any letters about the matter?
I wanted to absolutly double check before answering I was very sure I had not but I wanted to have 100% confidence in my answer.
my first email to her was March 2011 she sent the gift in 2010.
shimon wrote:
I am not aware of her giving gifts in that manner as a usual event, I know she gives gifts to members who visit but I am unaware of her sending gifts back with a visitor.
i find Joshua's story to be very compelling. she gave the sister of his loved one two viels.. one for her and one for the person she would recruit.. and now Joshua's loved one left.
what are your thoughts on this?
shimon wrote:
I am not aware of her giving gifts in that manner as a usual event, I know she gives gifts to members who visit but I am unaware of her sending gifts back with a visitor.
i find Joshua's story to be very compelling. she gave the sister of his loved one two viels.. one for her and one for the person she would recruit.. and now Joshua's loved one left.
what are your thoughts on this?
shimon wrote:
Sorry to answer in random order I cannot see the order I am answering so I am trying to respond to everything as I remember
You are very unique if you'd put tomatoes in a fruit bowl but I won't accuse you of lying because I have no reason to doubt you.
Mother is not average height when compared to American members she is short and this was a very tall brother. So if this story is true that wouldn't explain it. (btw she doesn't always wear foot length dresses either and I don't know what she was wearing at the time either)
I said it proves she can access my thoughts not that she is God
as for healings it is definitive you don't need to folow God to heal or be healed without medicine. I am not impressed by Miracles nonbelievers can perform them (and I am counting "babylon pastors" as believers not nonbelievers)
Maybe it depends on your definition of a fruit bowl. ๐
You are saying that God is not necessarily the only one who can access thoughts. (?)
About healings, I agree with your point. But I wouldn't expect a 'true church' to be lacking in healings, would you?
(And just to be clear, we (I) don't credit the ones who pray as 'performing a miracle'. It's God who performs the miracle, not the pastor or one who prays for it.)
shimon wrote:
Sorry to answer in random order I cannot see the order I am answering so I am trying to respond to everything as I remember
You are very unique if you'd put tomatoes in a fruit bowl but I won't accuse you of lying because I have no reason to doubt you.
Mother is not average height when compared to American members she is short and this was a very tall brother. So if this story is true that wouldn't explain it. (btw she doesn't always wear foot length dresses either and I don't know what she was wearing at the time either)
I said it proves she can access my thoughts not that she is God
as for healings it is definitive you don't need to folow God to heal or be healed without medicine. I am not impressed by Miracles nonbelievers can perform them (and I am counting "babylon pastors" as believers not nonbelievers)
Maybe it depends on your definition of a fruit bowl. ๐
You are saying that God is not necessarily the only one who can access thoughts. (?)
About healings, I agree with your point. But I wouldn't expect a 'true church' to be lacking in healings, would you?
(And just to be clear, we (I) don't credit the ones who pray as 'performing a miracle'. It's God who performs the miracle, not the pastor or one who prays for it.)
genny wrote:
shimon wrote:
Sorry to answer in random order I cannot see the order I am answering so I am trying to respond to everything as I remember
You are very unique if you'd put tomatoes in a fruit bowl but I won't accuse you of lying because I have no reason to doubt you.
Mother is not average height when compared to American members she is short and this was a very tall brother. So if this story is true that wouldn't explain it. (btw she doesn't always wear foot length dresses either and I don't know what she was wearing at the time either)
I said it proves she can access my thoughts not that she is God
as for healings it is definitive you don't need to folow God to heal or be healed without medicine. I am not impressed by Miracles nonbelievers can perform them (and I am counting "babylon pastors" as believers not nonbelievers)
Maybe it depends on your definition of a fruit bowl. ๐
You are saying that God is not necessarily the only one who can access thoughts. (?)
About healings, I agree with your point. But I wouldn't expect a 'true church' to be lacking in healings, would you?
(And just to be clear, we (I) don't credit the ones who pray as 'performing a miracle'. It's God who performs the miracle, not the pastor or one who prays for it.)
lol possibly
I believe not but that's the only other conclusion that could make sense
I do not believe physical healings are what Christ was ever about even though he did them he mind was honestly about saving us and spiritualy healing us.
genny wrote:
shimon wrote:
Sorry to answer in random order I cannot see the order I am answering so I am trying to respond to everything as I remember
You are very unique if you'd put tomatoes in a fruit bowl but I won't accuse you of lying because I have no reason to doubt you.
Mother is not average height when compared to American members she is short and this was a very tall brother. So if this story is true that wouldn't explain it. (btw she doesn't always wear foot length dresses either and I don't know what she was wearing at the time either)
I said it proves she can access my thoughts not that she is God
as for healings it is definitive you don't need to folow God to heal or be healed without medicine. I am not impressed by Miracles nonbelievers can perform them (and I am counting "babylon pastors" as believers not nonbelievers)
Maybe it depends on your definition of a fruit bowl. ๐
You are saying that God is not necessarily the only one who can access thoughts. (?)
About healings, I agree with your point. But I wouldn't expect a 'true church' to be lacking in healings, would you?
(And just to be clear, we (I) don't credit the ones who pray as 'performing a miracle'. It's God who performs the miracle, not the pastor or one who prays for it.)
lol possibly
I believe not but that's the only other conclusion that could make sense
I do not believe physical healings are what Christ was ever about even though he did them he mind was honestly about saving us and spiritualy healing us.
I received a gift from Zhang once. It was a lanyard for my cell phone. I don't remember praying for one of those and it had nothing to do with any letter that I wrote her.
I received a gift from Zhang once. It was a lanyard for my cell phone. I don't remember praying for one of those and it had nothing to do with any letter that I wrote her.
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