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This topic was brought up in a different post but I think it deserves a discussion of it’s own. What are the signs and wonders of these two? Please don’t post about how Jesus did things and people still didn’t believe. He still did those things and we have the account of it. What have Ahn and Zahng done?
Joshua wrote:
Shimon, I hope you understand the difference between between testing God by telling him to perform a miracle and / or just looking for the miracles that God has performed. God has done many things and continues to do many things. Sometimes the miracles he performs he does so because we've asked him to. We don't do this to test him. Here's where the problem with Ahn and Zahng come in. Miracles are happening every day but not by either of these two people. If they were God there would be miracles. Where are the miracles of Ahn and Zahng? I do requested that you address miracles not parlor tricks. I'm looking for the unexplainable.
Pharoah found explanations for the plagues. Parlor tricks and cooincidences and all sorts of explanations.
Joshua wrote:
Shimon, I hope you understand the difference between between testing God by telling him to perform a miracle and / or just looking for the miracles that God has performed. God has done many things and continues to do many things. Sometimes the miracles he performs he does so because we've asked him to. We don't do this to test him. Here's where the problem with Ahn and Zahng come in. Miracles are happening every day but not by either of these two people. If they were God there would be miracles. Where are the miracles of Ahn and Zahng? I do requested that you address miracles not parlor tricks. I'm looking for the unexplainable.
Pharoah found explanations for the plagues. Parlor tricks and cooincidences and all sorts of explanations.
So, I'm obviously talking about deploying. And I don't remember asking if you've been in the military. But now I see that on this site, I have to be ridiculously specific. That gets annoying fast & frankly makes posts entirely too long. But, if I must then I must.
I believe that at the moment, Joshua, the miracle isn't realized. But there will be a time when I think back upon those oranges, I will realize why God allowed the wind to blow in such a way that they aligned as you described. The explanation for everything is because God willed it to be. My question is why did God will for my situation, as well as many others', to line up perfectly with the PO?
So, I'm obviously talking about deploying. And I don't remember asking if you've been in the military. But now I see that on this site, I have to be ridiculously specific. That gets annoying fast & frankly makes posts entirely too long. But, if I must then I must.
I believe that at the moment, Joshua, the miracle isn't realized. But there will be a time when I think back upon those oranges, I will realize why God allowed the wind to blow in such a way that they aligned as you described. The explanation for everything is because God willed it to be. My question is why did God will for my situation, as well as many others', to line up perfectly with the PO?
loocpoc:
You still said, "Unless you're deploying.." Given my comment would only makes sense "unless I'm deploying" then I must be referring to deployment. I don't care about your military experience & how much you know about what. I was merely giving an example about how certain things matter more than others. Idk how to make it any clearer* than that. With that being typed, I'm going to leave that point alone.
loocpoc:
You still said, "Unless you're deploying.." Given my comment would only makes sense "unless I'm deploying" then I must be referring to deployment. I don't care about your military experience & how much you know about what. I was merely giving an example about how certain things matter more than others. Idk how to make it any clearer* than that. With that being typed, I'm going to leave that point alone.
I am still wondering about some things I said in this thread… I don't believe in WMSCOG doctrine anymore of course that doesn't mean I have all the answers but I don't need to know the answer to everything to know an answer is wrong
About 700 yrs b4 Jesus was born, Isaiah prophesied that he would open the eyes of the blind, make the lame walk, deaf hear & so on. When Christ comes a 2nd time, there is no prophecy that he has to perform miracles. That’s easy & simple.
neutral wrote:
About 700 yrs b4 Jesus was born, Isaiah prophesied that he would open the eyes of the blind, make the lame walk, deaf hear & so on. When Christ comes a 2nd time, there is no prophecy that he has to perform miracles. That's easy & simple.
@Neutral, that's because since his birth, Ash was not able to perform the simplest miracle of even writing a good book that made any good sense ..He just took verses from the Bible and made interpretations based on his own doctrine .. Of course, later on reinforced by the WMS marketing machine and Zahng's lies... Ash couldn't get his own kids to believe he was anything else but a mere fanatic — Of course, WMS's version is that Jesus' own people did not believe in him and crucified him .. According to the Bible, Mary was everywhere Jesus went, which leads me to believe that Mary believed in him from the starts. Jesus' brother ended up believing and supporting him. However, none of Ash's family members EVER supported his theory .. All WMS has to "prove" anything at all is their few twisted Bible verses, their own books and their cleverly manipulated scary videos and boring songs ..
I would like to hear some of Ash's followers from the time he was alive. See what the think now that he died and the old ugly lady took ownership of the throne..
Travis wrote:
neutral wrote:
About 700 yrs b4 Jesus was born, Isaiah prophesied that he would open the eyes of the blind, make the lame walk, deaf hear & so on. When Christ comes a 2nd time, there is no prophecy that he has to perform miracles. That's easy & simple.
@Neutral, that's because since his birth, Ash was not able to perform the simplest miracle of even writing a good book that made any good sense ..He just took verses from the Bible and made interpretations based on his own doctrine .. Of course, later on reinforced by the WMS marketing machine and Zahng's lies.Actually no WMSCOG doesn't enforce his doctrine they made up their own very loosely based upon poor interpretation of what he wrote.
.. Ash couldn't get his own kids to believe he was anything else but a mere fanatic
His son believes him to be a prophet which is all he ever claimed to be (whether he was or not doesn't change the fact your accusation is incorrect)
According to the Bible, Mary was everywhere Jesus went, which leads me to believe that Mary believed in him from the starts.
The Bible says no such thing but of course Mary beleived in Jesus an Angel anounced him plus she knew she hadn't had sex so she kinda knew a miraclulous birth occured.
Jesus' brother ended up believing and supporting him. However, none of Ash's family members EVER supported his theory ..
see above statement.
I would like to hear some of Ash's followers from the time he was alive. See what the think now that he died and the old ugly lady took ownership of the throne..
Check out NCPCOG if you wanna see what they think… Of course there was no throne and Zhang isn't particularly old or ugly
neutral wrote:
About 700 yrs b4 Jesus was born, Isaiah prophesied that he would open the eyes of the blind, make the lame walk, deaf hear & so on. When Christ comes a 2nd time, there is no prophecy that he has to perform miracles. That's easy & simple.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Jesus is CONSISTENT if he performed miracles in his ministry 2000 years ago and if God performed miracles for millenia before then why would he stop? that is INconsistent.
@Simon, I think we should get a cup of coffee one day .. and it would be on me..!!!
neutral wrote:
About 700 yrs b4 Jesus was born, Isaiah prophesied that he would open the eyes of the blind, make the lame walk, deaf hear & so on. When Christ comes a 2nd time, there is no prophecy that he has to perform miracles. That’s easy & simple.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Jesus is CONSISTENT if he performed miracles in his ministry 2000 years ago and if God performed miracles for millenia before then why would he stop? that is INconsistent.
In these days, even unbelievers perform miracles. That doesn’t make them Christ
neutral wrote:
neutral wrote:
About 700 yrs b4 Jesus was born, Isaiah prophesied that he would open the eyes of the blind, make the lame walk, deaf hear & so on. When Christ comes a 2nd time, there is no prophecy that he has to perform miracles. That's easy & simple.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Jesus is CONSISTENT if he performed miracles in his ministry 2000 years ago and if God performed miracles for millenia before then why would he stop? that is INconsistent.
In these days, even unbelievers perform miracles. That doesn't make them Christ
Of course unbelievers perform miracles 3,500 years ago in Egypt non believers performed miracles too, that didn't stop God then
"Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." quoting you on this one .. If Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever .. then, does he really need to engage in spiritual marriage with a married woman and him being married as well just to prove, again that he is the Son of Man.??
Quoting you again below:
"Jesus is CONSISTENT if he performed miracles in his ministry 2000 years ago and if God performed miracles for millennia before then why would he stop? that is Inconsistent."
Yeah, why would he stop now .. well, he just did .. Ash couldn't keep himself alive — he died of a stroke, taken to a human hospital and buried as a human by his legal wife on a cementery. Zang, did nothing at all, why? because she couldn't, legally, do anything at all. We can all go to and exume his body, if necesary, to check if his bones are still there. We may find a few surprises there.
I ask you, has either Ash or Zangh perform any miracles on Earth..?? has any of them being persecuted, mistreated, abused, betrayed by any of his disciples or murdered ..??
—By the way, I'm just being as literal about the Bible as you are .. since it's how you were taught to create your arguments—
If, he is the same yesterday, and today and forever, then answer this … did he need to come again in Korean form and create such confusion.?
Assuming that you know the history of this cult you follow, defend and support.. You would know its fraudulent activities and its change of name and why the organization changed its name before 1964…
Would Jesus need to go through all this in order to gather its fruits/selects..?? .. Isn't he the Almighty..?? he does not need to come in any other form, especially to convince anyone at all that he is whom he says he is ..
- Didn't Jesus ask us to live by his examples..?
- Can I get "spiritually be married" with a woman and be legally married to another one, since I would be following his example.?
- This is getting confusing, right ..??
yeah, I know .. even for me its getting weird…lol
you answered my question by proving me with a link from WMS site ..?? that's a bit out of touch given that you're on this forum .. Also, have you noticed that all the images WMS use on their sites and their videos are copies of Hollywood movies, history books, etc .. Nothing the WMS prophesize is true .. nothing the WMS teaches is real
Mel Gibson's version of Passion of the Christ is used in so many of WMS's videos to mislead members into believing in WMS'.
Did you know that 'Passion of the Christ's' main actor, Jim Cavierzel the guy who played Jesus' Character in the movie; is a die hard Christian evangelical. He even consulted the Pope before he accepted the character. That's how serious this guy is about his faith in Jesus and the WMS, without his concent, is using his image to its favor..??
That's called exploitation and it's punishable by law… you might be familiar with the term since you're being emotionally and financially exploited as we speak.
Well said Travis!
When you've been brainwashed I guess you'd really be willing to accept anything. It is true, throughout the ages God never stopped performing miracles irrispective of the fact that false prophets also could perform miracles.
I remember a sermon by ash where he said that those who chased after the miracles would be destroyed because the greatest miracle is that of eternal life. But this however does not change the fact that Jesus came and still perfomed physical miracles AND also granted eternal life to those who believed.
Why oh why couldn't I see through his B.S? Fake a$$ Christ.
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