- Topic
This comment was originally posted by WMS brother on The WMSCOG's Failed Doomsday Predictions of 1988, 1999, and 2012. What Will They Predict Next? and moved here for further discussion:
1. That Facebook post is not an official announcement from General Pastor, or Heavenly Mother.
2. That Blog is not an official announcement from General Pastor, or Heavenly Mother.
3. The Court Case findings were not an official testimony from General Pastor, or Heavenly Mother.
*In fact, it plainly says that the findings were the testimony of family members, and a survey of the general assembly. Not an actual statement by the lead office.
——
Now… Some people might have said some dumb things along the way. This same event happened even right after the death of Jesus in his own church (gal 1:6). And so it is imperative that we return to the correct gospel. There was a huge stack of books Ahn-Sahng-Hong left behind that took years to thoroughly read, translate, and distribute to us.
Which is exactly why your missing one gigantic point:
*It is testified that god himself must re-appear and rebuild Zion before the last day, because it has been destroyed after the death of the apostles.
That’s a big study to swallow, but this verse is a lot more direct: "All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast" (rev 13:8)
There is a biblical event which -must- happen, in order for you to learn the truth in the last days. Otherwise you will continue to worship the beast just as God testifies everyone has been doing all along. There is no exception to the above verse, there are only those who are saved by the grace of god, in the manner through which God has described.
To conclude:
There is, in fact, only one church in the entire world, which follows -all- of the instructions of Jesus and the Apostles, without neglecting any of them.
Cephas' Brother wrote:
Interesting that they taught Renita that the moon is representative of mother. Is the sun representative of ASH then? How did they reconcile that with the teachings about the catholic church and sun worship?
I have wondered the same thing.
renita.payno wrote:
R.e.m.?? Random eye movement?
The song "It's the end of the world as we know it" by R.E.M. (for those who missed the reference).
representation in metaphor doesn’t allow you to worship in reality
Certainly doesn’t, but I’d imagine that’s the same kind of answer you’d hear from the Catholics.
Yea, just like the lamb represents yeshua but christians don’t worship lambs.
I went to the fish market in wanted to get some lamb but I was afraid of how it might taste.
Wms Brother, do me a favor K ? Wake the $&@/ up.
Lol now everyone calls Jesus
yeshuahplease give me a break! Everyone knows that Jesus is the way people mostly calls him in English and Spanish… Im pretty sure Jews know that too. I mean you can call him like that if you want to no offense is just funny to see older posts of people calling him Jesus before and now yeshua. (Sorry if I didn't spell it well)Its because “jesus” is said to mean “god zues”. In english, my name is pronounced ruh-KNEE-tuh. In spanish, its rey-KNEE-tah. The koreans pronounced it raw-KNEE-tah. The orientation of the letters in my name never changed however the pronunciation did due to everyones acsent. That bs about yeshua in english is jesus never sat well with me. I’ve heard from 3 different sources that jesus in translation as plenty to do with zues, a pagan god.
Just like god is a pagan term for… god.
Jelly, I think what you're seeing could be the result of the search for accuracy that we all seem to be striving for here. The COG teaches people that the things they've learned over the course of their lives about religion is false. I think it's natural then that the folks who come to realize that what the COG taught them was a falsehood as well would search for their own independent truth. Yeshua in hebrew corresponds to the greek spelling Iesous, which we spell in english Jesus. But you know all that.
Is it any more accurate? Maybe. It's likely closer to what the central new testament figure was called in his own time. Yeshua and Yeshu are common alternative spellings of the hebrew name Yehoshua. If such a person ever existed.
renita.payno wrote:
My pastor in santee zion said not to believe what members say UNLESS it came from your group leader. Because your group leader got it from your unit leader who got it from pastor who got it from general pastor who got it from mother.. that leaves a whooole lot of room for error. Its like playing telephone.
As I stated before, yes, there is a whole lot of room for ERROR, so what one person might say is FALSE, UNLESS it comes out of whome we belive to be our Spiritual Mother. I never believe unless I have proof.
Now for saying that, I know I'm going to recive the "ohh, but this website exposes the WMSCOG for what they really are, so then how can you say that 'I never believe unless I have proof'."
Well, before even meeting anyone from the church, I have been the one to always go against the status quo, as stated before, I have always been the type of person that listens to people like Ron Paul and Alex Jones. I mean, this world is truly comming to an end soon, i'm talking about nuclear war, collapse of the dollar, basically, an Obamanation! But,Question: What do the "experts" say when you even procaim that the dollar will collapse? Answer: Hahaha, that will never happen, the dollar is the safe haven currency and inflation is minimal, we we'll be ok.
So why do I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE IN THE WMS?!?
I saw a 6 part video from a CHRISTIAN (Protestant) Pastor in which he was explaining the parable of the Fig Tree (heres the link to the 1st part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jJUnJ9KcoI , lust find the rest of the 6). At the very end of this 6 part video, he confirmed that Isreael was indeed the Fig Tree and that 1948 was the year in which destruction was to begin, or in other words, the generation that jesus testifies that will certainly not pass. Lucky coincidence that ASH was baptized at 30 years of age and it so happened to be on that year.
When Jesus established the New Coveneant Passover, what did he do? He Broke Bread, gave thanks, and gave it to his diciples. He also pour out wine and gave it to his diciples. This was his flesh and blood. He told them to DO THIS IN REMEMBERENCE OF HIM. When he was crucified, he was burried, but the next day what happened? He did stayed dead (or as I peronally like to think of it, his body rested and was getting ready to be ressurected) and his diciples RESTED IN OBEDIENCE TO THE COMMANDMENT (4th commandmant, or sabbath).
I could go on with more examples, but I don't want to bore you to death LOL
Now what does christianity (catholics and protestants) teach, sunday observance and no, you don't need passover anymore, just go ahead and celebrate christmas and easter sunday, you are 100% saved by grace, even though father jesus said to keep the new covenant passover in rememberance of him and that ALL of his disiples rested in obidience to the commandment.
KF wrote:
@ FREE THINKER, Can you please explain why the passover was celebrated on the wrong month
http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2010/09/big-calendar-mistake.html
Well, you might not like this answer, but it's the best answer I could give you.
I went ahead and asked, the answer I recived was "well, how is it that we (the wmscog) have celebrated the passover on the right time for every year, except this one year (2010 as that website states)?"
That is the answer I recived and I know it might not satisfy your needs, so my appologies in advanced if I could not help you out :/.
Jesus of Nazareth wrote:
Wms Brother, do me a favor K ? Wake the $&@/ up.
Please keep it clean! I am sure that EVERYONE here might agree to say that they just want answers to their questions or at least try to explain their viewpoints, so @Jesus of Nazareth, do me a favor K ? Calm the F down.
Last little note that I am going to leave before I end this comment.
There are a great multitude of verses, I mean, A WHOLE LOT OF DAMN VERSES to support and deny BOTH sides of the argument. I just want to say, leave people to think for themselves, let them make their own decisions on what is right for them and what isn't.
One day I pray that you will be a FREE THINKER. With ideas that have been placed inside you that make you think Jesus was resting while his body was in the grave or that his friends were even thinking about the law after burying their murdered friend the day before does not show any sign of being a FREE THINKER! The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus was fighting Satan and death while his body was laying in the tomb. No rational, free thinking person would consider this as resting on the Sabbath. The diciples on the other hand were both in moorning and in hiding. For them the most inconcevable thing had just happened and because they were followers of Jesus there were people that were hunting them down as well. In hiding and in mourning is not resting on the Sabbath. You say you have many more examples but you don’t want to bore us. I feel more insulted than bored. Please bring on this further truth that you don’t want to bore us with. Your obvious truth is not so obvious when a free thinking individual like myself puts it into a realistic perspective. Try to really think for yourself when you reply to this post. I’m looking forward to seeing something real in your responce.
Free Thinker – What did Jesus tell his disciples to do in remmebrance of him? Did he mention the New Covenant Passover? Not at all. He referred to the action he was doing. The wmscog chooses to call it the NCP. Others call it differently. The Catholics for instance, call it the Eucharistic celebration. It has been around since apostolic times. It has been celebrated on Sunday since apostolic times. There are enough reasons to cite from the New Testament why worship came to be on Sunday instead of Saturday since apostolic times.
The Gospels urge us to keep 9 of the 10 the commandments citing each of them several times. Only one commandment is left out completely. That is the one about the Sabbath. Please read the New Testament. Did Jesus tell the rich young man to keep the Sabbath to go to heaven?
When trying to understand the correctness or otherwise of the wmscog teachings, all I ever did was read around the same verses that the wmscog presents for every argument. The answer became clear to me every time. One common wmscog citation is of Gal 4:26, 28 and 31. I suggest you should read Galatians all the way from chapter 1 to 5 to understand what Paul refers to in those verses. Come back here after you have read it and tell us what you think.
Joshua wrote:
One day I pray that you will be a FREE THINKER. With ideas that have been placed inside you that make you think Jesus was resting while his body was in the grave or that his friends were even thinking about the law after burying their murdered friend the day before does not show any sign of being a FREE THINKER! The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus was fighting Satan and death while his body was laying in the tomb. No rational, free thinking person would consider this as resting on the Sabbath. The diciples on the other hand were both in moorning and in hiding. For them the most inconcevable thing had just happened and because they were followers of Jesus there were people that were hunting them down as well. In hiding and in mourning is not resting on the Sabbath. You say you have many more examples but you don't want to bore us. I feel more insulted than bored. Please bring on this further truth that you don't want to bore us with. Your obvious truth is not so obvious when a free thinking individual like myself puts it into a realistic perspective. Try to really think for yourself when you reply to this post. I'm looking forward to seeing something real in your responce.
***Note, I will mark the verses that the WMS teaches****
I love it how you stated this. Why? The one who is NOT a free thinker is YOU! So they DIDN'T rest in obidience to the commandment?!? Well what does LUKE 23:50-56 have to say about that? (wms teaches only verse 56)…… Matthew 28:1, After the sabbath……Mark 16:1 After the sabbath…….Mark 16:9 (wms), jesus rose on the 1st day of the week, Luke 24:1, jesus rose on the 1st day of the week……John 20:1 early on the 1st day of the week; 7th day=sabbath, so again, why didn't he ressurect ON SABBATH?!?
You say "Bible clearly tells us that Jesus was fighting Satan and death while his body was laying in the tomb. No rational, free thinking person would consider this as resting on the Sabbath." Well, that's YOUR interpretation of the bible. What I get from the bible is that Jesus came for the forgiveness of sins(Hebrews 9:27, many people use this to show that jesus came for the forgiveness of sins, not just the WMS), the WMS teaches 9:28 for ASH, Jesus's mission was to Seek and to Save the Lost (Luke 19:10, WMS). He also clearly stated that he DID NOT COME TO ABAOLISH THE LAW (Matthew 5:17), but apparently he is a liar because Catholics and Protestants alike state that we don't need to follow any law. They say we are saved through faith alone. So if you have faith in Jesus Christ, then why don't you celebrate at least the passover? He said "DO THIS IN REMEMBERENCE OF ME, Luke 22:19 & 1st corinthians 11:25" (a better way to explain this is here http://thememorial.xanga.com/691493886/item/ .Is it not the word of GOD that saves? So then if he said do this, then why don't protestants and catholics do as Jesus instructs? Now If you're truly a "free thinker", then you would allow me to state my belifs and my ideas with respect and bringing your ideas into the argument with your evidence instead of screaming out, YOU ARE WORNG YOU ARE WRONG, I AM A FREE THINKER, YOUR IDEAS ARE ABSOLUTELY CLOSED MIDNED & WRONG AND I AM RIGHT!
Also, you state that the Bible def. states that "Jesus was fighting Satan and death while his body was laying in the tomb."
I like htis link here http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080517220040AAkQzhG
ethereal spirit says:
I've wondered that myself. Since there are no details given about where Jesus was during the time between His burial and resurrection morning, no one knows for sure.
Jesus did not descend into hell, which is the final abode of the lost. The word "Hades and Sheol" do not mean hell and so we cannot place the Spirit of Jesus in hell while His body was in the tomb. We do know that Jesus did not see the corruption that man goes through in the grave even through Jesus said that He would spend three days and night in the "heart of the earth."
<h3 class=”reference” id=”yui_3_3_0_1_1356513507062217″>
Source(s):
Psalm 16:10-11; Matthew 12:40
Answer me this! says:
Answer: 1 Peter 3:18-19 states, "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison." The phrase, "by the Spirit," in verse 18 is exactly the same construction as the phrase, "in the flesh." So it seems best to relate the word "spirit" to the same realm as the word "flesh." The flesh and spirit are Christ's flesh and spirit. The words "made alive by (in) the spirit," point to the fact that Christ's sin-bearing and death brought about the separation of His human spirit from the Father (Matthew 27:46). The contrast is between flesh and spirit, as in Matthew 27:46 and Romans 1:3-4, and not between Christ's flesh and the Holy Spirit. When Christ's atonement for sin was completed, His spirit resumed the fellowship which had been broken.
First Peter 3:18-22 describes a necessary link between Christ's suffering (verse 18) and His glorification (verse 22). Only Peter gives specific information about what happened between these two events. The word "preached" in verse 19 is not the usual word in the New Testament to describe the preaching of the gospel. It literally means to herald a message. Jesus suffered and died on the Cross, His body being put to death, and His spirit died when He was made sin. But His spirit was made alive and He yielded it to the Father. According to Peter, sometime between His death and His resurrection Jesus made a special proclamation to "the spirits in prison."
To begin with, Peter referred to people as "souls" and not "spirits" (3:20). In the New Testament, the word "spirits" is used to describe angels or demons, not human beings; and verse 22 seems to bear out this meaning. Also, nowhere in the Bible are we told that Jesus visited hell. Acts 2:31 says that He went to "Hades" (New American Standard Bible), but "Hades" is not hell. The word "Hades" refers to the realm of the dead, a temporary place where they await the resurrection. Revelation 20:11-15 in the NASB or the New International Version give a clear distinction between the two. Hell is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost. Hades is a temporary place.
Our Lord yielded His spirit to the Father, died, and at some time between death and resurrection, visited the realm of the dead where He delivered a message to spirit beings (probably fallen angels; see Jude 6) who were somehow related to the period before the flood in Noah's time. Verse 20 makes this clear. Peter did not tell us what He proclaimed to these imprisoned spirits, but it could not be a message of redemption since angels cannot be saved (Hebrews 2:16). It was probably a declaration of victory over Satan and his hosts (1 Peter 3:22; Colossians 2:15). Ephesians 4:8-10 also seems to indicate that Christ went to “paradise” (Luke 16:20; 23:43) and took to heaven all those who had believed in Him prior to His death. The passage doesn’t give a great amount of detail about what occurred, but most Bible scholars agree that this is what is meant by “led captivity captive.”
So, all that to say, the Bible isn’t entirely clear what exactly Christ did for the three days between His death and resurrection. It does seem, though, that He was preaching victory over the fallen angels and/or unbelievers. What we can know for sure is that Jesus was not giving people a second chance for salvation. The Bible tells us that we face judgment after death (Hebrews 9:27), not a second chance. There isn't really any definitively clear answer for what Jesus was doing for the time between His death and resurrection. Perhaps this is one of the mysteries we will understand once we reach glory.
<h3 class=”reference” id=”yui_3_3_0_1_1356513507062246″>
Source(s):
The 3rd paragraph deals with the question directly of whether or not Jesus spent time in hell. http://www.gotquestions.org
another link is here http://mattdabbs.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/what-did-jesus-do-during-his-three-days-in-the-grave/
but personally, I like "Answer me this!'s" response better.
So, anyways, Father Jesus could have ressurected immediatly after her was crucified, but then why didn't he? Maybe it was because he was resting because of sabbath, maybe he wasn't, I'm not jesus, so I can't say he did it for sure, but since in these sections of the bible says that the deciples rested in the sabbath in accordance to the commandment, then I THINK his BODY (as I stated in my previous comment) was resting on the sabbath (I have not spoken or implied that he did not do anything spiritually). That, and besides, he propesied that he was going to ressurect after 3 days, which he did. So again, THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE THE BIBLE SAYS AND OF COURSE, THIS IS THE WORD OF GOD AND I CHOOSE TO ACCEPT IT AS IT IS WRITTEN. IT IS GOD'S WORD THAT SAVES, NOT MAN'S WORDS.
The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus was fighting Satan and death while his body was laying in the tomb. No rational, free thinking person would consider this as resting on the Sabbath. The diciples on the other hand were both in moorning and in hiding. For them the most inconcevable thing had just happened and because they were followers of Jesus there were people that were hunting them down as well. In hiding and in mourning is not resting on the Sabbath.
When have I ever stated that Jesus didn't suffer and that the Deciples were not Percecuted?!?!?! NO WHERE, in fact, it's very saddening to imagin myself being present while this all occured, I would be dehydrated from just crying so much and I would have felt like if it were all my fault that he was killed. So please calm down just a little bit there, i'm not here to bring war but to present my ideas in a peacful manner. I'm sure that even you can respect that. Just let me know if you want more evidence, I will try to find as many as I can k? ๐
Ohh and back to the topic of WMS predicted the end of the world? Well again, officially, ASH proclaimed it in 1988, NOT 1999 or 2012! @Genny, Again, I have never seen this chart that deaconess has showed you, so I do not have a say in your experiance. Since I have been a memeber of this religion (I say religion, you might say cult, EVERY SINGLE RELIGEION IS A CULT!) I have never heard of such a thing. All I have heard from some brothers is that this world is comming to an end soon, just as I have been saying ever since I have gotten into looking up what Alex jones has been saying a few years back and hearing confirmations over the news and hearing all of the predictions come true from Dr. Ron Paul.
A lot of your post directly contradicts WMSCOG doctrine and Ahn Sahng Hong's books directly
Simon wrote:
A lot of your post directly contradicts WMSCOG doctrine and Ahn Sahng Hong's books directly
Please let me know what about my post concerns you because I want to stronglu emphasize that the sources that I am using in this website I am strictly using to counteract these "claims" that others are making about the wms. I don't know if you notice, but I have NOT once used one of ASH's books or any of the WMS's teaching (just some verses that they might use) to counteract the argument. I even state things like, I personally think, as in, I think, NOT the WMS thinks; or I say look at these sources because I like how they explain it, NOT the WMS says look at this. So I mean, I don't reference to our docterin because I want to try to balance things out. I know that using the WMS docterin would def. make many people mad here and that would just make things uglier. I just want to calm tensions down a bit, those are MY intensions. So I hope that with this I made myself a bit clear-er. You may choose to believe me, or you may not, that is of course your decision, but I am not the one to jude, like I have been saying, let people think about what is right or wrong for them. Just don't go about saying things because your pastor says this and my deacon says that and this website this and that website that.
So I strongly emphasise that I am the one who personally thinks what I am saying here and defending my religion with things that catholics and protestans alike might agree on. Think about it as the "Evidence Book" (if you don't know what that is, it's a book that the WMS uses to show that evidence of why we do things a certain way and also how others admit to not keeping the word of christ, and for many other purposes),yet it does not have any of their doctorin, but uses evidence from other sources to explain things that we do. Again, I am not here to bring war, but to present MY, again, just in case you didn't get that, MY IDEAS. ๐ With this, I say good night to you all and god bless all of you ๐
Hal wrote:
How can Yeshua be the father if he called himself the "son"?
Because in the NT, Yeshua states that he and the Father are One (John 10:30). I know you don't believe in Yeshua and you say he is a false prophet, but to christianity, Yeshua is our Father, our Lord, Son of Man, the Lamb, Son of God, God in the flesh, ect.. ect…
Ok Free Thinker, as you can see there are plenty of people here from various backgrounds who are willing to help with these questions. There are also some who would like to tell you what you should think. You get enough of that at the WMSCOG. I am heavily of the mindset that I hate the sin but love the sinner. At times I will bulldoze certain topics especially if they seem to be in error or misguided. The way cult groups cherry pick scriptures to satisfy their preconceived notions and doctrines causes me to want to run right over the top of them every time. Other members of this forum have testimonies of how I can be at times. That being said I want you to understand that I feel that most of the people trapped in the WMSCOG are really well intentioned people who are striving to do the right thing and who earnestly desire the truth. You are obviously an intelligent person based on your input on this forum. You also have taken some risk by coming here and even more risk by posting here. The WMSCOG doesn't want their members coming to a place like this and they do monitor this website. Make no mistake, we will be challenging what you believe to be true however, if you are truly seeking the truth many of us here are very willing to help you find it. Here's the catch, you must be open to it and also do your own research with everything that you've been taught and everything that we are going to bring to you. You have to find truth for yourself. There are some obvious flaws to what is taught in your group. They label it as the truth but when you hold it up to Gods Word, history, even their own teachings at times you will find out that the truth at the WMSCOG is full of lies and misconceptions.
You stated that I am not a free thinker which even though you meant it as a slam I find it slightly humorous. I'm going to skip past this obvious lack of free thinking and go into one part of your questions. I will not try to go over all of the disjointed questions that you placed here at one time. I'm sure that others here will also take some of your questions on. By the way, if you are of the mindset that if someone gets stumped then you are right, that is just one of the control methods that cults use to keep their members in check. Again, not a free thinking kind of thing. You also are showing cult traits by stating that these are your ideas and not WMSCOG teachings. There are links on this website to Lifton and Hassan which are both very professional and respected individuals in the field of identifying cults and their traits. This information should help you amend you ideas about what is a cult and what is not.
I'm going to open up the dialoge with the Saturday Sabbath. Please take the time to research this as fully as you need to in order to see the reality of this. The Saturday that this group is so foundational about preserving as the Sabbath is not the same Saturday as the seventh day of the week. You're probably a little confused and / or thinking I'm a bit crazy. Research this for yourself. Many days have been removed and calanders reorganized in the past. None of the days fall on the same days as in the begining. For all we know, if we start from today and work backwards, Saturday could actually fall on Thursday for example. Many cult group use this Saturday Sabbath as a way of throwing people off and then convincing them that they have been somehow lied to all of these years. What this does is cut a person off from a great deal of people some of whom could have very valuable information that could save the individual from the heartache of a controlling group. The next point that I want to share with you is that there is no rechord of Jesus after the ressurection ever keeping the Saturday Sabbath. By cementing the Saturday Sabbath idea into your head you would have to accept the idea that Jesus was a sinner. I will never buy into an idea like this so on this point I am not a free thinker. Let me put another idea out to you. If Jesus was a sinner then he could not have paid the price for us. If Jesus is not the Christ and Ahn is the reincarnation of Jesus what would it matter? Jesus obviously would not be God therefore Ahn would not be God and even if he had revealed Chang / Zahng as god the mother it would all be just one big lie. Looks like a major contradiction to me. I do believe Jesus is God and I don't believe Ahn was. Ahn's own teachings were about Jesus being the only way to salvation and that Jesus name was the only name in this time and the next until the end. This is another thing that you need to research for yourself. You have some homework to do here: Research what a cult is, What day Saturday might really be, and What did Ahn believe really. Do this research on your own! Do not bring it back to the group and don't use any of the groups teachings, books, or literature to draw your conclusions from. You find the truth out for yourself. Use your Bible and any number of references of which there are thousands. Remember, we are here to help but you need to do some things on your own. Welcome to one of your first steps into the light of truth and most importaintly the truth will set you free.
Joshua wrote:
Ok Free Thinker, as you can see there are plenty of people here from various backgrounds who are willing to help with these questions. There are also some who would like to tell you what you should think. You get enough of that at the WMSCOG. I am heavily of the mindset that I hate the sin but love the sinner. At times I will bulldoze certain topics especially if they seem to be in error or misguided. The way cult groups cherry pick scriptures to satisfy their preconceived notions and doctrines causes me to want to run right over the top of them every time. Other members of this forum have testimonies of how I can be at times. That being said I want you to understand that I feel that most of the people trapped in the WMSCOG are really well intentioned people who are striving to do the right thing and who earnestly desire the truth. You are obviously an intelligent person based on your input on this forum. You also have taken some risk by coming here and even more risk by posting here. The WMSCOG doesn't want their members coming to a place like this and they do monitor this website. Make no mistake, we will be challenging what you believe to be true however, if you are truly seeking the truth many of us here are very willing to help you find it. Here's the catch, you must be open to it and also do your own research with everything that you've been taught and everything that we are going to bring to you. You have to find truth for yourself. There are some obvious flaws to what is taught in your group. They label it as the truth but when you hold it up to Gods Word, history, even their own teachings at times you will find out that the truth at the WMSCOG is full of lies and misconceptions.
You stated that I am not a free thinker which even though you meant it as a slam I find it slightly humorous. I'm going to skip past this obvious lack of free thinking and go into one part of your questions. I will not try to go over all of the disjointed questions that you placed here at one time. I'm sure that others here will also take some of your questions on. By the way, if you are of the mindset that if someone gets stumped then you are right, that is just one of the control methods that cults use to keep their members in check. Again, not a free thinking kind of thing. You also are showing cult traits by stating that these are your ideas and not WMSCOG teachings. There are links on this website to Lifton and Hassan which are both very professional and respected individuals in the field of identifying cults and their traits. This information should help you amend you ideas about what is a cult and what is not.
I'm going to open up the dialoge with the Saturday Sabbath. Please take the time to research this as fully as you need to in order to see the reality of this. The Saturday that this group is so foundational about preserving as the Sabbath is not the same Saturday as the seventh day of the week. You're probably a little confused and / or thinking I'm a bit crazy. Research this for yourself. Many days have been removed and calanders reorganized in the past. None of the days fall on the same days as in the begining. For all we know, if we start from today and work backwards, Saturday could actually fall on Thursday for example. Many cult group use this Saturday Sabbath as a way of throwing people off and then convincing them that they have been somehow lied to all of these years. What this does is cut a person off from a great deal of people some of whom could have very valuable information that could save the individual from the heartache of a controlling group. The next point that I want to share with you is that there is no rechord of Jesus after the ressurection ever keeping the Saturday Sabbath. By cementing the Saturday Sabbath idea into your head you would have to accept the idea that Jesus was a sinner. I will never buy into an idea like this so on this point I am not a free thinker. Let me put another idea out to you. If Jesus was a sinner then he could not have paid the price for us. If Jesus is not the Christ and Ahn is the reincarnation of Jesus what would it matter? Jesus obviously would not be God therefore Ahn would not be God and even if he had revealed Chang / Zahng as god the mother it would all be just one big lie. Looks like a major contradiction to me. I do believe Jesus is God and I don't believe Ahn was. Ahn's own teachings were about Jesus being the only way to salvation and that Jesus name was the only name in this time and the next until the end. This is another thing that you need to research for yourself. You have some homework to do here: Research what a cult is, What day Saturday might really be, and What did Ahn believe really. Do this research on your own! Do not bring it back to the group and don't use any of the groups teachings, books, or literature to draw your conclusions from. You find the truth out for yourself. Use your Bible and any number of references of which there are thousands. Remember, we are here to help but you need to do some things on your own. Welcome to one of your first steps into the light of truth and most importaintly the truth will set you free.
See, this was a better response.
Now let me tell you just a little bit about my religious background so that you can understand why i'm more inclined towards the WMS than most other religions. I was born a catholic and I have been a catholic untill about 6 months ago, went to church on sundays at least 3 times in the month, celebrated the hispanic "Novenas" (which is a fesivity that is, I belive a week before christmas, in which we pray everyday to the virgin mary, jesus, god the father, and the holy spirit; and then we have a mini party), celebrated easter sunday, ash wednesday, wore crosses and what not. A few years back, maybe 5 or 6 years ago, I went to try out a different religion with my cousin, which she is protestant, to be more specific, she attends the Church of God Ministry of Jesus Christ International. They still keep sunday observance, but they were very different than my Catholic church, no idols, everyone appeared well dressed and acted very friendly, they did "prophecies from the holy spirit", and their testimonies and what not. Ever since then, I had always had a doubt in my head about christianity and catholics. As you know, Catholics detest "fanatics" (which are of course, the people that like doing what is stated in the bible) and they always encourage you to go to the pope or the preist for answers (never liked that! LOL). It's like you go to a "confession" and you tell the pope, "pope, I killed a person.", His response it, "it's OK child, go and pray 3 our father's, and pray the prayer of the vergin mary and you'll be fine, god will understand." Never been OK with that at all. What I didn't like about the christian church is that everyone works and donates money to their church, yet when I asked the pastor if he had a job, he told me no, that his work was in the church, basically living off of the people that attend the church (catholics do this as well. nothing special there…). Also, like every single religion, We are right, they are wrong, and here is why.
The catholic way of "church" is rediculous, I go there for the pope to read some sections of the bible and then he starts wondering off telling a story about his interpretation of what he just read, and that was the whole "teaching". Then people donate and finally they eat the flesh of christ and drink his blood, or bread and wine. After that, church is over.
My experiance in the protestant church. I walk in, they sing songs, the pastor reads a section of the bible, explains his interpretation, donation, testimonies of the "prophecies from the holy spirit", then church ends and some stay to recieve prophecies and some stay to ask the pastor questions. BTW, according to this protestant church, one you are baptized by the holy spirit, then you can give prophecies, it's the only way, which just sounds rediculous to me.
I have family in europe that are muslim and I just don't like their customs that much, They always have to pray kneeled down in a clean area, they can't eat pork (bbq ribs are just too much of a risk for me to even try that religion ๐ ), their food has to come from a market where their priest or w.e. they call their religious leaders blesses it first, and well, that's just not me.
So after hopefully giving you a bit of insight on my religious background, now I can explain a little about why I tend to lean more twards the WMS.
Now the begining of the bible, Genisis 1:26 & Genisis 1:27, as you all probably know by now, the WMS teaches these verses to show the mother god. When I asked my cousin's pastor about this, I believe he said that the "us" that is stated in these versed where the angels, and my cousin told me that it was the holy trinity. The WMS teaches that us actually ment man and woman, makes sense since we are male and female, and well this "us" came from the image of God. So to me, the WMS make more sense than the protestants and I think that the catholics too might say that the "us" is the holy trinity.
Also, Matthew 7:21 all the way to Matthew 7:23, this one hit me really hard because I did recieve these "prophecies" in the name of Jesus Christ while in a protestant church. I know that the WMS teaches these verses, but this verse to me was SCREAMING out to me and was a big red indicator that something fishy was going on in there. I like how the New King James Version says verse 23 (you who practice lawlessness) becuase it coincides with what christ said that he did not come to abolish the law. This section also hit me real hard because I have seen many miracles performed by both cahtolics and protestants. So it was truly something that got my attention.
Something that I noticed about ASH is that he NEVER proclaimed to be God, or the holy spirit. Neither does Mother (Zahng Gil Jah), she has never once said that she was the New Jerusalem, or Mother Jerusalem, or Mother God. Yet all of the false christ say "I am the 2nd Comming Christ, come to me and you will be saved." For Example, Jose Luis De Jesus…I mean, come on, teaching people that there is no more sin, his followers give him loads of money, his followers tatto 666 on themselves, he drives the most fanciest cars, I mean WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?!? Some second coming christ huh… you can check him out here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ucZlQCx0c
So what am I saying with this. When Jesus came 2000 years ago, he was only known to be God by his diciples (which if memory serves correctly, they did not believe him fully untill he resurected and jesus said zomething about how dare they not believe the scriptures, again, this is if memory serves correctly, I may be wrong on this one). No one in the puclic knew and he never proclaimed to be god, only those that followed him did. Same situation is happening here (in MY opinion). Only the people that truly believe the WMS proclaim ASH and Zahng Gil Jah to be our gods.
I could go on if you want, but I have to talk about some other things k? ๐
That being said I want you to understand that I feel that most of the people trapped in the WMSCOG are really well intentioned people who are striving to do the right thing and who earnestly desire the truth. You are obviously an intelligent person based on your input on this forum. You also have taken some risk by coming here and even more risk by posting here. The WMSCOG doesn't want their members coming to a place like this and they do monitor this website. Make no mistake, we will be challenging what you believe to be true however, if you are truly seeking the truth many of us here are very willing to help you find it. Here's the catch, you must be open to it and also do your own research with everything that you've been taught and everything that we are going to bring to you.
Now this part. Thank you for the complement about me being an intelligent person, I don't get that too often. The reason why is because as I have stated before, I have always been the one to be against the status quo. People only listen to what they want to hear and then you smack them in the face with what is really going on, it's deny deny deny, and they don't want to hear anything else I want to say to them. Also, I do agree with you when you say that they don't like their members going to these types of websites, and I might be able to provide and expination for you.
One thing I have learned since dong research on the internet is that probably only 20% (well 30% would be a better number) of what is stated on the internet is probably true. The rest is well, garbage. Why? Websites like these are basically not credible. When I mean not credible, it is not to say that it does not present good evidence, but the people who make these type of websites and the people who post things on forurms much like this one basically only states opinions and their evidence is stuff that came out on another website that came out of another source, get me? For example, let's say that you are going to write a paper about how inflation impacts america. Would you use documents and data that the Federal Reserve System has published, or would you use an article from CNN which is summary and explination of an interview that was done with an exper in the field. I would go with the Federal Reserve's data because it comes directly from the source of inflation. Well on the internet, the majority of people would use information that does not come from the source directly.
I hope that this explination served you well, and if it didn't, let me know so that I could try to explain it a bit better
Again, as I stated in my previous comment
then you would allow me to state my belifs and my ideas with respect and bringing your ideas into the argument with your evidence
I am completely open to your statements and opinions, I'm not in any way encouraging anyone here to stop, my intentions are just to calm the fighting just a little bit, but if anyone has claims they want to present, by all means do it, I will try to answer what I can and find sources that I personally think would allow catholics and protestants to agree on something. Also like I have responded to Simon, I try my best not to bring in any of the WMS doctorin or ASH's books because that would create more tension, which would go against my intentions and would defeat my purpose in even commenting on this fourm.
You're probably a little confused and / or thinking I'm a bit crazy.
No, i'm not confused, as I stated before, I am more inclined twards what the WMS is saying because of my religious background and like I had also stated previously, there are just a great number if verses that can both support or deny any side of the argument, people have to make their own choice and follow what path they believe is right.
Also, I don't think that you are a bit crazy, it's just that honestly, I did not like how you responded to me refering myself as a free thinker. I thought it was pretty rude and the way you wrote it made it sound as if you were mad at me directly, that is why I responded the way I did by saying that it was you who are not a free thinker. But let's put that behind us k?
Also, I agree with you that Jesus was not a sinner, so like you, I am not open minded when someone might say that he was. But just look at apostile paul.The WMS teaches that Sabbath was kept by this verse Acts 17:2 and in deed it was, also, this was after Jesus accended into heaven. The WMS doesn't teach this one in the sabbath day study, but I know that some members use it Acts 18:4. There is also Hebrews 4:9, I like to read the whole chapter, but from reading this, I know you may not agree and might interpret it another way. There also exist in the Evidence book of the WMS that directly quotes a catholic book, I believe it is called the faith of our father. They directly state that we may read the bible from cover to cover, yet nowhere does it teach sunday observence but actually enforced saturday (sabbath) obervance. So we might not agree on this one, but I most certainly would like to see your evidence to prove this wrong. ๐
Now as to actually call the WMS a cult. I really like this topic because of 2 things. 1) I know that there is a famous quote from a psychologist that says that it begins with an idea, it grows into a cult, and then turns into a religion. I don't know which one it is though, so my appologies on that. To me, a cult is a sect that is does things that are not normal in society and one thing that I have been taught about most cutls is that they tend to kill people who do not agree with them. Now to me, EVERY SINGLE RELIGION IS A CULT. They all say that salvation of the soul is only found through them and that if they leave, they will not be saved. It's the basic principle of every religion. So doesn't matter if it's jewish, catholic, muslim, protestant, WMS, NCPCOG, mormonism, hinduism…..they are all a cult to me, that and besides, the WMS is just too big now to even call it a cult. My 2nd reason, I took a class on american ethnicity and culture at my university three years back. While we were studying the religion aspect of the different cultures of immigrants, my professor said something that comes to me every time I hear about the WMS being a Cult. He said that no member of any religion is safe. When they leave their religion, some tend to believe that they were followed by memebr that remain in their church, they publish things online to convince others not to go, they call it a cult, they visit other religions, and they often go to meetings where they and other ex-memebers gather to have discussions about why they just left and try "rehabilitate". He thought it was so important to know that he even made it a question on his final exam LOL.
Also, if the WMS does indeed monitor this website, then let them! They will not know who I am, all that they might know is that I am from Florida, that's about it. Every single time I enter websited like this, I use a VPN, so to them, i'll appear to be writing from europe :). I'm always a step ahead, so I have no worries over that.
So what am I saying with this. When Jesus came 2000 years ago, he was only known to be God by his diciples (which if memory serves correctly, they did not believe him fully untill he resurected and jesus said zomething about how dare they not believe the scriptures, again, this is if memory serves correctly, I may be wrong on this one). No one in the puclic knew and he never proclaimed to be god, only those that followed him did.
Sorry, Jesus did proclaim to be the son of god, very dumb mistake, but people refused him. He could only prove thought his works that he was god but the public would rather stone him instead and say that everything he does is blasphemy. In MY opinion, ASH made it clear that he was god though his books. He also took a picture with Zahng Gil Jah in wedding clothes to MAYBE show us that they were the spirit and the bride. So a correction on that. My appologies
I have to say Saturday isn't the seventh day seems a week argument, that implies that Jews have failed to keep the Sabbath somewhere in the last 2000 years, because clearly they were keeping the correct date at Jesus's time. I find that the Jews lost track of days in 2000 years a bit preposterous.
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