- Topic
The time is near, and the current members with be attending the pa-ssover ceremony. Do they or don't they observe a false pa-ssover?
UntouchableJ wrote:
@Mayor I saw a YT vid of an early American Member, and he mentioned that churches were bugged to monitor the members. Im not totally sold on that, but I do believe it happened with my first Overseer. The cameras on the outside of the church had audio. I was warned to be mindful of what I say.
Our Zion was monitored and recorded for "our protection". They would use the excuse of people trying to break in and steal from the church/slanderers/ex members trying to come inside.
The setup was super nice too, clear screens , audio, and 24 hour.
Each floor had cameras, each door way, parking lots, entrances, and all the study rooms. Very invasive. We would talk amongst ourselves and if it wasn't spiritual talk, it would be rebuked by a leader later. Leaders would watch how the sanctuary was cleaned and then yell about how they knew it wasn't being cleaned the right way. Big brother type surveilance.
Man o man. Sounds like such a warm, friendly, open, trusting, caring ….. wait, except for the cameras and rebuking part … wait, are you sure that Dongy Lee and Choo Choo Kim and Zhangy Bangy are from South Korea? South? Not North?
Like, man o man, I think these WMSCOG Koreans are cousins to that fat guy up north, Kim dung dung, or whatever they call him.
Bumped.
@Hein I think its their general nature. In Korea, which pre-Christianity has deep roots in Buddhism and Shaminism, the actions that WMS leaders committ are common. In many Asian countries, including Korea, questioning Leadership is taboo,foreign, and worthy of chastisment. Following Norms comes to mind secondly. I remember when the Korean Overseer first came, the entire church was rebuked for not bowing enough. Koreans don’t seem to like change to the norm. Again when the Korean Overseer came, after he got some brothers to be flunkies, many of them started wearing parted hair, tie clips and acting like robots. We also didnt do Bazaars, talent shows etc, and when we did the music was SUPER safe (temptations N’Sync and Jackson 5 were done) no members rapping or new music. So within Korean culture its very safe. I think the reason WMS has such an issue with the opposition the receive from Exmembers etc, is because they think they should be left alone.
genny wrote:
….there are bigger problems that should be more obvious to the wmscog member.
Yes, the wmscog Passover this year does not match with the Jewish Passover or calendar, but it does correspond with the Christian calendar so that we will celebrate Resurrection Sunday on the same day.
That's the first thing… As long back as the internet record goes, the wmscog has always celebrated Resurrection Sunday on the same day as the mainstream Christian churches. Even when the Jewish date of Passover didn't match up (like this year), they chose to follow the Christian calendar. So even though they don't celebrate "Easter," they do. (I mean Easter as in the English name for the celelbration of the Resurrection, not Easter as the defines it as worshipping eggs and bunnies.)
Secondly… It is useless to argue that they are not keeping the proper date because they don't line up with the Jewish calendar. They will tell you that the Jewish calendar is wrong and that will be the end of discussion. BUT, it's often useful to follow the argument of "what if the wmscog was right with this point…"
Assume the wmscog Passover date is correct. Count the new moon just previous to it as the start of Month 1. Count forward by new moons to the dates of the rest of the feasts for the year.
According to their own calendar reckoning, they have celebrated the fall feasts in the 8th month instead of the 7th month in 4 of the 11 recorded years on their website. That's approximately 1/3 of the time they are keeping their own feasts incorrectly by their own timing. Here's my chart with details: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1MsoweMAuX9TFiNpzg6Oi2d1CERWFyrqwHp183-H_G9U
Now consider JohnF's dates for this year (https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=15128&page=2#post-48816)
The wmscog is aware of this problem, no doubt, but they have yet to give a valid explanation. They've tried explaining it, but it doesn't work.
You raise some excellent points indeed and honestly ones that I've never thought about in all my eight years in the cult. Its just really goes to sho the power of mind control and also further demnstrates just how powerful the delusion of this cult is.
I'm curious as to what lie they would come up with to try and explain this away, because clearly they are manipulating the times and the dates to suit theire own evil intentions.
@Azula Wow, 8 years. What did they tell you when 2012 didnt happen? Im always curious to what they told the members that have been in longer than me.
They celebrate a false everything.
They used to claim not to celebrate because it was Pagan.
Yet i stumbled upon a picture of them with easter bunny baskets on twitter and instagram.
False church and hypocrites.
Meant to say celebrate Easter
@setufree PLEASE forward me that pic
UntouchableJ wrote:
@Azula Wow, 8 years. What did they tell you when 2012 didnt happen? Im always curious to what they told the members that have been in longer than me.Yup eight of the most miserable years of my life!
The reason they gave for the 2012 debacle was something along the lines of
"The temple had to get inspected because it was discovered, upon investigation, that when the first 144 000 were found that their hearts were clean but their minds were not. So the next part of the cleansing after the mind was the colon…"
@Azula LMBOOOOO!!! Funny you mentioned “colon”. In the two buildings the branch I was at were in, they had signs in the bathroooms asking the members NOT to flush Toilet paper because the pipes were Old. It was disgusting that members would throw used TP in the trashcan. I thought maybe the pipes were an excuse and that it was some Korean thing. I hated it, because my kids started doing it at home
Azula wrote:
UntouchableJ wrote:
@Azula Wow, 8 years. What did they tell you when 2012 didnt happen? Im always curious to what they told the members that have been in longer than me.Yup eight of the most miserable years of my life!
The reason they gave for the 2012 debacle was something along the lines of
"The temple had to get inspected because it was discovered, upon investigation, that when the first 144 000 were found that their hearts were clean but their minds were not. So the next part of the cleansing after the mind was the colon…"
My son, who is now a deacon, said that they never said the end was in 2012. (He certainly did tell me that in 2009, and I heard it from others there as well.) He said, "Some people misunderstood." So I guess they told some to say that, and some to say the temple had to be inspected, or whatever. They didn't worry about consistency at all, I suppose, because no one would question it.
@Mountain I honestly think they were worried out the gate, that 2012 wouldnt occur. Now, when you change all the prerequistes to the end of the world to your own interpretation, I think anyones Psyche or inner self is saying, “This doesnt make sense”. I know thats how I felt in varying lies. Its Cognitive Dissonance in full effect; You either ignore the obvious so that your mind isnt battling, or you believe the lie and move on. We were also told that there would be an, “Inspection period”, but that preaching would stop. Well, it never did.
@mayor After its inspected, now, there has to be a period to get different estimates for building. By then, there will be a sale on parts…so um…then the buulding starts. But wait, the building has to pause, because “Elohim” wants a smoothie….wait…gotta get a refund because they put strawberries in it.
MountainMom wrote:
My son, who is now a deacon, said that they never said the end was in 2012. (He certainly did tell me that in 2009, and I heard it from others there as well.) He said, "Some people misunderstood." So I guess they told some to say that, and some to say the temple had to be inspected, or whatever. They didn't worry about consistency at all, I suppose, because no one would question it.
I was also told that the world was ending in 2012 and I can remember being so relieved to have heard that because the cult was extremely demanding mentally, physically, psycholigically and financially so the idea that it would be over soon was very appealing.
And the above behaviour is typical of a narcissist who manipulates people for their own gain, they switch often between the role of victim/ bully by saying things like, "People misunderstood." But in my time there, the leaders often revelled in the miserable fate that would befall all who did not believe that the world was ending in 2012. Eg Lot's sons-in-law who thought Lot was joking.
The cult has an obvious reason for denying 2012 because I can remember how when I was confronted about the failed prophecy by a family member my immediate response, without hesitation was denial. Because I would have had to openely admit that I WAS WRONG. The one thing that they never want you to admit in the cult is fallibility about their teachings and they almost hammer it into you that you can never admit to either: not knowing what a verse or prophecy means and never admit to being wrong.
That's why if memebers came up to their leaders about bible verses that they [the leaders] have never seen or knew how to explain they would say, "we will study later" which is cult talk for they were never trained about a cult approved explanation. Another favourate was saying things like, "mother said we musn't ask about…" or another one "father never mentioned about that [prophecy]"
If a person admits defeat in an argument with a non member or admits that a prophecy never came true the "perfect truth" is then no longer "perfect". This would leave the person open to an attack, so the member is trained to think.It's amazing the amount of fear they are made to believe about those not in the cult and this includes family members. They refuse to see how they could be wrong because that's how they have been trianed. Every teaching from the cult is good and anything from the outside the cult is of the devil and willl mean they "lose blessings and sul-bey-shun".
That's why the members will never go there because being magnanimous is not part of the cults nature or teaching. All of these behaviours are typical of how a narcissist behaves.
@Azula. You just opened my eyes with your comment. I always knew WMS had to have an answer, but never saw their excuse responses, in the light you shed them. I think the Overseers are puffed to literally think they are very much better than the other members. Thats why they have no issue with asking within themselves why the doctrine leads to question after question. Once early on, I came accross a YT vid from an ex- member (the video has been removed), and he stated how “Members will always have question after question” because of the shady doctrine. After I got over my weak moment and went back to wms, that stuck with me. You hear a prophecy or sermon and you walk away feeling like, “Wow, AMAZING”. Then later you realize or have a question about errors in the teaching. It happened many times. And as you said as a member gets Narcissistic answers over time they do the same to others.
Bumped
Azula wrote:
MountainMom wrote:
My son, who is now a deacon, said that they never said the end was in 2012. (He certainly did tell me that in 2009, and I heard it from others there as well.) He said, "Some people misunderstood." So I guess they told some to say that, and some to say the temple had to be inspected, or whatever. They didn't worry about consistency at all, I suppose, because no one would question it.
I was also told that the world was ending in 2012 and I can remember being so relieved to have heard that because the cult was extremely demanding mentally, physically, psycholigically and financially so the idea that it would be over soon was very appealing.
And the above behaviour is typical of a narcissist who manipulates people for their own gain, they switch often between the role of victim/ bully by saying things like, "People misunderstood." But in my time there, the leaders often revelled in the miserable fate that would befall all who did not believe that the world was ending in 2012. Eg Lot's sons-in-law who thought Lot was joking.
The cult has an obvious reason for denying 2012 because I can remember how when I was confronted about the failed prophecy by a family member my immediate response, without hesitation was denial. Because I would have had to openely admit that I WAS WRONG. The one thing that they never want you to admit in the cult is fallibility about their teachings and they almost hammer it into you that you can never admit to either: not knowing what a verse or prophecy means and never admit to being wrong.
That's why if memebers came up to their leaders about bible verses that they [the leaders] have never seen or knew how to explain they would say, "we will study later" which is cult talk for they were never trained about a cult approved explanation. Another favourate was saying things like, "mother said we musn't ask about…" or another one "father never mentioned about that [prophecy]"
If a person admits defeat in an argument with a non member or admits that a prophecy never came true the "perfect truth" is then no longer "perfect". This would leave the person open to an attack, so the member is trained to think.It's amazing the amount of fear they are made to believe about those not in the cult and this includes family members. They refuse to see how they could be wrong because that's how they have been trianed. Every teaching from the cult is good and anything from the outside the cult is of the devil and willl mean they "lose blessings and sul-bey-shun".
That's why the members will never go there because being magnanimous is not part of the cults nature or teaching. All of these behaviours are typical of how a narcissist behaves.
You said what I have also been thinking. My son can't simply say that he was wrong about anything. He can't say he made a mistake about anything, even though it is glaringly obvious that he did. I told my husband that I thought the reason was that if he did, he would have to admit that his church mentors' leadership was wrong. It would mean that what they told him to do was not the right thing, and he can't admit that or the whole thing falls apart. It calls the leaders' "perfection" into question and he cannot face that.
I feel that he has done some things and said some things that he really regrets, and that he did these things totally at the direction of his church "handlers." If he apologizes or says he didn't mean to say or do those things, then to him, it would be disrespecting his "leaders" whom he thinks are almost deities since they talk to Mother god on the phone. If he disrespects them by admitting what they told him to do just may have been a mistake, then he feels he is disrespecting "Mother."
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