- Topic
The time is near, and the current members with be attending the pa-ssover ceremony. Do they or don't they observe a false pa-ssover?
I think you guys are going a bit overboard with the JW/Shimon/Simon thing, but anyway…
Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:
Go back and review the old Simon posts a few years ago. …
The truth is, this guy misses WMSCOG, and I have always believed he was asked to leave ….
I was here talking with Simon before he left, during his process of leaving, and after he decided to leave.
No, he did not miss the wmscog after he left (from my conversations with him), nor was he asked to leave. Once he saw what was for him their fatal mistake, he was out.
Guys I had a PM conversation with JW. I think he looks at it from the perspective of a member, saying that name calling and nit picking WON’T make a person leave. If you have a loved one struggling with Alcoholism, will calling him/her a drunk, free them? No. My mother loved my wife and I through our four years inWMS. She didt yell at us, she expressed her concerns and still just kept loving, inviting us over, to bday parties etc.
One thing I want to share, and be very transparent. When we were on the fence about coming out, my wife had come to this site. Some folks on this Forum had spoken negatively of her. My wife has a PhD in Nueroscience and behaviour and is proffesor at a small College nearby. She did a video for WMS where she was coerced into trying to prove scientifically that “Mother” existed. So in some shape form and fashiom, my Wife(although she just wants to move forward in life) is a little bit famous to some exstent when we were members. She would go to events and be greeted all the time with, “Your thr Proffessor from the video!”. Well, Long story short, when she came here to look at info to learn, she came across bad comments by members of THIS site. “She’s a proffessor at a no-name school” , and some other assumed and negative comments. At the time, that almost led her to go back to WMS. Don’t be the extreme opposite of WMS. Just my hu
*humble opinion.
@untouchable, I don't disagree with that thinking. That is why, as I said on the other thread, I am taking steps to get my vitriol under control, so that I might propagate members leaving more. I think the biggest issue some of us take with JW is his lack of transparency. I know that some people here think that it's not a big deal, but to me, it is. One of the most hurtful aspects of being a wmscog apostate is the violation of trust. So needless to say if this counter movement is going to be at all effective, we need to be able to trust each other. We cant do that if some people here are trying to decieve others about who they are and what their intentions are.
genny wrote:
I think you guys are going a bit overboard with the JW/Shimon/Simon thing, but anyway…
No, we're really not. As I said to untouchable, IMO , the thing that we should be that the WMS is not is trustworthy. I understand if he would not want to reveal himself on the public part of this forum but he can atleat PM somebody a full name and a city, or a facebook. If he were to do that, I would personally apologize to him. Even if it turned out that he is simon/shimon and he'd been lying to us( or trying to) the whole time I would forgive him and let bygones be bygones. At that point we could put our heads together and work to help people leave more effectively ( because as I said, he does have some legit ideas) but as the golden rule might dictate; if he is not willing to be honest with us, there is no reason for me to have anything to do with him.
UntouchableJ wrote:
Guys I had a PM conversation with JW. I think he looks at it from the perspective of a member, saying that name calling and nit picking WON'T make a person leave. If you have a loved one struggling with Alcoholism, will calling him/her a drunk, free them? No. My mother loved my wife and I through our four years inWMS. She didt yell at us, she expressed her concerns and still just kept loving, inviting us over, to bday parties etc.
…Well, Long story short, when she came here to look at info to learn, she came across bad comments by members of THIS site. "She's a proffessor at a no-name school" , and some other assumed and negative comments. At the time, that almost led her to go back to WMS. Don't be the extreme opposite of WMS. Just my hu
That's very true, that name calling and comments like your wife experienced will not help anything. I totally understand the frustrations that lead to it, but again, it's the ad hominem fallacy. It looks like avoidance of the issue by criticising the person themselves. I'll tell you, when I get frustrated like that and want to lash out, it helps me to not say anything for a while. Then when I've calmed down, I can speak more rationally.
Brian Taylor wrote:
So needless to say if this counter movement is going to be at all effective, we need to be able to trust each other. We cant do that if some people here are trying to decieve others about who they are and what their intentions are.
I totally agree with that too Brian. There are a couple things we should remember, though…
People here are often hurt and worried. We are reluctant of being very transparent because we know the wmscog's tactics and are wary of repercussions. I myself measure the information I share, and I hope that others will understand that I have no deceitful purposes, but I do want to protect my family. I'm sure others are the same.
Also, although experiences with the the wmscog mess up our ability to trust, we need to assume the best intentions of other people here. Think about it. There are two ways to err with this:
1. The person has honest intentions, but we assume they are devious. What happens? We respond with attacks, and, they get confused and defensive and end up leaving here without the support they need. And among the non-participating readers, we get a bad reputation of being mean and uncaring. Plus the wmscog gets ammunition to use against us.
2. The person has devious intentions, but we assume they are honest. What happens? We respond with understanding, help, and sound arguments, and they may continue their deception. As long as we measure the personal information we share (which we should anyway), there will be no harm. The worst that happens is that our kindness is taken advantage of. The best that happens is the person may be won over, readers see positive things, and more people are helped.
I prefer #2. That's why, as tough as it is, I vote for assuming trust in each other.
I prefer #2. That's why, as tough as it is, I vote for assuming trust in each other.
I vote with Genny on this one …….. @Brian, Mayor and even UJ, it takes time to completely forgive what they (the members) did to you but you will. (The real God can decide what to do with the leaders) I'm not telling you to either, that's between you and them but when you do, you will be more willing to lead with trust and unconditional love because that's the only way to reach them. It's risky and you might get betrayed, I've been betrayed, but it's still the only way. More often then not, when someone comes here, they are looking for help.
Mayor and Mike wrote:
I understand, and I agree. Personally, I'm not really interested in sharing my personal info. But I can. I do want to stay on the anonymous side.
Everything we write is basically all on the Internet. But I do want to talk about my opinions and problems I have with the cog. And as for JW, I say let him have his say, as long as he stop insulting others. Maybe he wants to stay anonymous. However, he should focus more on the cog instead of complaining about others. Also he seems to want to generalize the cog with others cults as a whole. So I ask JW to focus on the cog since this site is specific to that one organization.
THANK YOU! GAWD DAM!
and genny, your response in this matter is non sequiter because I was not talking about people in general, I was talking about this specific instance – anyone should have the option of remaining anonymous and being treated with trust- but when you want to become interactive with others. And do things which need their participation hmmmm like idk a survey!! then trust , through mutual identification is needed. And thats it! Im done with this topic!
Lets move on, this topic is tiring me out.
@Mayor I dont really calculate the calanders. How did they get it wrong this time?
Mayor and Mike wrote:
Did JP say that there are 25 hundred "zions" and 2.5 million members? Let's say that is true.
And on tuesday March 22 2016 will the wms be conducting the passover ceremony?
Also will they not declare that (to the effect) "today, at twilight, on the 14 day of Nisan… do not come empty handed etc"
Now in the book The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ, it is written in the first chapter, and under the second title heading "the second commandment and it's explanations" and in the second paragraph after the bible verses it reads as follows:
"… idolatry is not only the making of any image that is to be an object of worship but also the making of other laws against God's true ones; God has appointed the Sabbath, so keeping Sunday as the Sabbath is making an idol of the Sabbath."
Tuesday March 22, 2016 is not the 14 day of Nisan. Not even close. Its the wrong day entirely. Would you celebrate Christmas on November 25?
Now if I had add all this up, an I use Ahn's reasoning here, can I say 25 hundred idols will be made and 2.5 million people will be commiting idolatry on March 22, 2016?
Very good point. We can be sure they are inadvertently breaking the first commandment( according to Ahn's logic) not only through this, but also according to scripture.LK:22:7 "then came the day of unleavend bread on which the passover lamb had to be sacrifed" and then in verse 20" In the same way, after the supper, he took the cup saying ' this cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you." Which means that Jesus christ's libation with bread and wine was a whole separate affair, apart from, and after the passover meal.
So with this it becomes fairly evident that the WMSCOG does infact keep a flase passover. The "passover" kept by the WMS is nothing more then a farrago of communion and Korean animism.I hope my point here is clear, please correct me if I am wrong.
@mayor Im literally laughing out loud. The arrogance of the WMS, LOL
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