[Mayor and Mike]

The time is near, and the current members with be attending the pa-ssover ceremony. Do they or don't they observe a false pa-ssover?

[Brian Taylor]

[Brian Taylor]

But hey, when nuts and bolts like this don't fit, can't they always fall back on "mother said"?

[Mayor and Mike]

Yes the screws are a little loose. Mama said, but I'm saying it's unsafe to drive. 

[UntouchableJ]

Well, they actually DO claim “Mother said”. I remember being told that, “Only mother knows how the time is calculated, and it won’t be the same as the Jews”. Thats funny to me….Worldwide, Orthodox and non-orthodox jews will have the same time correct despite their differences. Yet, WMS gets it wrong and claims, “Only Mother knows” as a buffer? Notice they get the other feasts correct in correlation, but not this one? Confusing.

[Brian Taylor]

UntouchableJ wrote:

Well, they actually DO claim "Mother said". I remember being told that, "Only mother knows how the time is calculated, and it won't be the same as the Jews". Thats funny to me….Worldwide, Orthodox and non-orthodox jews will have the same time correct despite their differences. Yet, WMS gets it wrong and claims, "Only Mother knows" as a buffer? Notice they get the other feasts correct in correlation, but not this one? Confusing.

That reminds me of one time, the overseer asking the question:" what if mudder told us to put crosses on the top of all zions? should we don it?" many answered by quoting the verses from the 'cross reverence is idolarty' study. The overseer then told us that we should infact put the crosses up in that situation, even if it contradicts scripture. Because "the way to salvation is mother, not prophecy or scripture" I felt it really well illustrated the totalist nature of the group….

[UntouchableJ]

@Brian Thats plum loco.

[jw03550]

Brian Taylor wrote:

That reminds me of one time, the overseer asking the question:" what if mudder told us to put crosses on the top of all zions? should we don it?" many answered by quoting the verses from the 'cross reverence is idolarty' study. The overseer then told us that we should infact put the crosses up in that situation, even if it contradicts scripture. Because "the way to salvation is mother, not prophecy or scripture" I felt it really well illustrated the totalist nature of the group….

This post illustrates very well the transition from the teaching/following of the Bible as it morphs into the blind obedience of the person.

[Brian Taylor]

jw03550 wrote:

Brian Taylor wrote:

That reminds me of one time, the overseer asking the question:" what if mudder told us to put crosses on the top of all zions? should we don it?" many answered by quoting the verses from the 'cross reverence is idolarty' study. The overseer then told us that we should infact put the crosses up in that situation, even if it contradicts scripture. Because "the way to salvation is mother, not prophecy or scripture" I felt it really well illustrated the totalist nature of the group….

This post illustrates very well the transition from the teaching/following of the Bible as it morphs into the blind obedience of the person.

and it is not the only anecdote I have that does that.

[Mayor and Mike]

Come to think of it, i've heard the line "Mother said…". But that kind of control worries me. It can easily be abused. 

 

But maybe, surely maybe the prophets of "jion" haven't "realized" Adar 2 savings time, yet. 🙂

[genny]

M&M, you have a point about the date, but there are bigger problems that should be more obvious to the wmscog member.

Yes, the wmscog Passover this year does not match with the Jewish Passover or calendar, but it does correspond with the Christian calendar so that we will celebrate Resurrection Sunday on the same day.

That's the first thing… As long back as the internet record goes, the wmscog has always celebrated Resurrection Sunday on the same day as the mainstream Christian churches.  Even when the Jewish date of Passover didn't match up (like this year), they chose to follow the Christian calendar.  So even though they don't celebrate "Easter," they do.  (I mean Easter as in the English name for the celelbration of the Resurrection, not Easter as the defines it as worshipping eggs and bunnies.)

Secondly… It is useless to argue that they are not keeping the proper date because they don't line up with the Jewish calendar.  They will tell you that the Jewish calendar is wrong and that will be the end of discussion.  BUT, it's often useful to follow the argument of "what if the wmscog was right with this point…"

Assume the wmscog Passover date is correct.  Count the new moon just previous to it as the start of Month 1.  Count forward by new moons to the dates of the rest of the feasts for the year.

According to their own calendar reckoning, they have celebrated the fall feasts in the 8th month instead of the 7th month in 4 of the 11 recorded years on their website.  That's approximately 1/3 of the time they are keeping their own feasts incorrectly by their own timing.  Here's my chart with details: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1MsoweMAuX9TFiNpzg6Oi2d1CERWFyrqwHp183-H_G9U

Now consider JohnF's dates for this year (https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=15128&page=2#post-48816)

The wmscog is aware of this problem, no doubt, but they have yet to give a valid explanation.  They've tried explaining it, but it doesn't work.

[UntouchableJ]

I am seeing Johns point now. Every year, for 4years as a member, the Passovee was in April, and 2nd passover was in May. Now, this is Jewish leap year(where an entire month is added) and Wms is behind a month? Sheesh…Cult alert. Red flag…but the members are closed minded.

[Mayor and Mike]

You make good points Genny. I'll check the links later when I have more time. There ARE other problems, yes. But some members need to know the problem I have with the passover services in the wms. They will be told: today is the passover, twilight, on the 14th day of Nisan and the church will quote those bible verses. (but it going to be twilight on the 13th day Adar 2)

Also, John Powers said in his interview, "we believe in the words of the bible, the old and new testament only,… we believe in keeping God's commands…"

And that is good, so do I. 

The bible says the passover is the 14th day at twilight in the first month. As we know. 

March is too soon for the passover. The sons of Eber have the calendar. It is the year 5776. They have the record of years. 

Let's continue to sift the church like wheat to see what else we can find. 

[Mayor and Mike]

And I think the members are mind controlled by the leaders, sheltered, and forbidden to look at the internet and learn the truths. 

[UntouchableJ]

@Mayor Your So right. Staying away from inanimate objects, is crazy. My roommate in undergrqs( still a good friend, and roomed together all 4years), was a JWitness. He told me how the leaders were against him going to college. They were also against other things like organized sports. WMS is on that same level. They keep members off the Internet, not just certain cites. They perfect the “BoogeyMan” effect. If you dont want someone to do something you don’t like, put fear behind it. By the way, if you vote for Donald Trump, sharks with lazers on their heads will be placed in your bathtubs.

[Mayor and Mike]

Hahaha, the boogey man? Do you remember him from the 80s? He was green, ghostly, and ugly. Man I'm still kind of scared of him. I'm still not sure about trump. It'll be quite the ride down the political freeway. And the Jehovah's are similar in nature? Unfortunately I don't know too much about them. Maybe there's an examining website for them too. 

[UntouchableJ]

@mayor. Check this site out

http://www.watchthetower.net

I used to read it in college when my JW roommate and I would get into debates. It was created by two Ex’ JWitness’. Very similar tactics.

[Mayor and Mike]

@ untouchable. I see: watch the tower, as opposed to: the watch tower. That's quite the story. 28 years in the organization but he called it the system. And going to head quarters to work with the "governing body" at the factory? And learning their ways, the work was the education? And secret files on all the members? And working and spying undercover? Whoa! Interesting story. I think scientology is worse, from that documentary I watched. But WMS probably is similar to JW, and maybe alittle more worse in regards to their control and stopping members from pursing their careers and completely their education. Such things depends on the overseer in your zion. Mine was more understanding and friendly up front but with a deceptive wicked side when I wasn't looking. 

[UntouchableJ]

@Mayor I saw a YT vid of an early American Member, and he mentioned that churches were bugged to monitor the members. Im not totally sold on that, but I do believe it happened with my first Overseer. The cameras on the outside of the church had audio. I was warned to be mindful of what I say.

[Brian Taylor]

UntouchableJ wrote:

@Mayor I saw a YT vid of an early American Member, and he mentioned that churches were bugged to monitor the members. Im not totally sold on that, but I do believe it happened with my first Overseer. The cameras on the outside of the church had audio. I was warned to be mindful of what I say.

was it mr. T** Mc****?

[UntouchableJ]

@Brian It was T*m. I say it doesnt seem far fetched because there have been sermons on topics that members discussed in secret. After “Fragrance” the overseer would disappear to his office. I knew for a fact that the survilence cameras linked directly to his office computer.

[Anonymous]

Tim was a very early convert to WMSCOG.  He was there when Ding Dong Lee first arrived in the USA.  His ex wife is still in, along with his kids.  Very sad story.  But it happens when you marry within the church.  You leave, your spouse doesn't, …… big problems.