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In another thread, fromtheotherside, speaking of the materials presented againt the wmscog, said "none of your evidences speak for itself. if you have such evidence present it without your explanation."
I presented several 'evidences without explanation' there, but I think it would be a good idea to take each one separately into its own thread. Here's the fourth one:
Regarding the President's Call to Service Awards that the WMSCOG displays: The award level shown for "World Mission Society Church of God" is not available for groups, only individuals. And the awards shown for "Kim Joo-cheol" and "Zahng Gil-jah" are only available to United States citizens.
I originally did not link to my research about it, because fromtheotherside did not want explanation, but if you'd like to see the research, I've collected it here:
http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2011/11/letting-your-light-shineor-seeking.html
I only saw one comment regarding this point in that thread. Here it is, copied from https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=4486&page=2 :
justasitis wrote:
I believe that the 'President's Call to Service Award" as shown, displayed and lauded by wmscog is a way of showing that totally outside of any religious beliefs, interpretations of the bible, whether or not there is God the Mother and God the Father, is a clear demonstration of manipulating and lying about what the church does and how it is supposedly so highly esteemed. If anyone were to look on the US government's website for how and to whom this award can be given, it is clear that wmscog, or at at least Kim Joo-cheol and Zahng Gil-Jah do not meet the basic criteria of being US citizens. This is a very simple yet very clear way of showing that this supposed church is not what it says it is. There is no way, according to the rules of this service award, that they could ever have been recipients of it. I can only speculate as to the reasons for wmscog wanting to demonstrate that they have been awarded this, but it seems to be to be very clearly invalid ie. they are not telling the truth.
I recall this being discussed somewhere else, but I can't find it at the moment.
Open for comment…
There are two awards WMSCOG claimed. One for the church and one for Cheol who can be a non-U.S citizen which disqualifies him. Take note that I said "can be" since there is still no proof of his citizenship status.
Exactly Elie, you said can be, that means you have no proof. But to go around and already state it is a false award is not honest. Clearly you said that you guys don't have all the proof. Again as I said in my post, Without a bullet, a gun, a shooter, and Motive, no conviction. This site is filled with bullets, and maybe closest a gun.
I refrained from saying lie as that is a word that might flare up tempers. I think honest is not a harsh word correct. lets all speak respectfully
As I've said, it could be verified if someone reports the suspected fraudulent action. Not meant to offend but you are acting like a hypocrite. You are now saying let's all speak respectfully when you were the one that keeps insulting people and cussing here in the forum. Can you try to be at least consistent?
First of all, even if we are approved by someone else or even our selves for that matter, untill you get something in writing or something tangable that says we are fraudulent then there is still nothing! As I said I'm not on trial and so isn't the Church of God, explanations don't need to be given but as a curtousy I am giving you a responce. Untill you get something hard there is no reason to explain our actions or to prove ourselves.
Elie will you act civilized I'm trying to change, why don't you give it a shot.
I think the fraud that people are seeing here is that Zahng and Kim are not American's. They do not qualify. They never should have gotten this award. How did they get it? From the outside it looks like deception has been perpetrated by circumventing the rules. Will God let us into Heaven if we circumvent His Word? If this was taken into a court of law the WMSCOG would lose. Not trying to be mean here it's just how it is.
Elie, please try to stop with the harsh judgements. People know that there are differences in beliefs here. Insulting other is not and does not help. Please try a different approach.
Genny you gather points and say we shouldn't have gotton the award, but the fact is they gave it to us. whether it was us that approve it or not, so to just keep saying it was not right you should get it straight from them, because you don't know the whole process of how it was applied for. Also, I know it is not the doing of Korea, but from the US. If brothers and sisters wanted to do something for their God, then it was accepted if there is backlash our God and us is ready to accept it which I have full confidence that they did it accordingly. If they did it to glorify God then we will trust their judgement. We trust and that they have done everything properly. So we accept and honor our brothers and sisters in the US who wants to glorfy God with the award.
I'm not thinking? Genny I know more about us then you or anyone on this site, I know more about Father and Mother physically or spiritually than any one on this site. even if you don't want to believe it, it is true. I judge when I should reveal something to you or any members by considering your motives for asking. If one of you asked me and I believed that it was that they truly wanted to know because they wanted salvation or to learn with a pure intent, then I have no problem answering. But If i know the reason behind that question is malice or to use it against us than I will not answer even if the answer is correct and the true will of God.
Joshua we recieved it that is the fact, if you feel that way then you take it up with them, we recieved it and if that is not going to change then I don't see how repeating this over and over is going to change anything.
fromtheotherside wrote:
In the words of MPL "is this it?, I thought it was something big" and as your co members actions show, the end justifies the means, (well actually elie's end was more for herself though, hmm that's another thing to look at. ) we did it to glorify God, who care's right, we had a great reason, so what ever we do get that doesn't matter.
correct me if I'm wrong but this post of yours near the beginning of this thread seems like an admission of deception. So if you know it already, why do you demand proof?
I guess the only way to check if they are americans is doing this http://www.ehow.com/how_5809062_out-someone-citizen_.html does any one have their correct name and birth day. Like this you guys can put to rest the argument.
king34 wrote:
I guess the only way to check if they are americans is doing this http://www.ehow.com/how_5809062_out-someone-citizen_.html does any one have their correct name and birth day. Like this you guys can put to rest the argument.
We probably couldn't anyways seeing as curiosity is probably not a permissible reason
Another problem is that Zahng is not her real first name. Her name has been changed several times over the years. The other problem is that we don't have her birthday either. There is a shroud covering the information of Ahn and Zahng. Ahn was not born as Ahn either but the WMSCOG didn't put Ahn in for a award. I wish that there was an easy way to put this to rest but deception creates confusion and it takes time to work through the confusion and deception to find real truth.
Is there any evidence they weren't born as called?
but how about the main pastor…the second in command. 4 got his name
Kim Joo Cheol
The award is small potatoes, we have no back lash because of it. Even if and this is a big if, you were to prove your point and get a person related to that department that handles this stuff to speak out, not one of our members would care. It's one out of hundereds given. It wouldn't affect us much we are too big of an organization to have something like that affect us. We stand by our members in america and believe they acted accordingly.
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