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Well… Lately, especially in 2011, that rumour was circulating about 2012 end of life. So, you really want to tell me that you believe in your heart that Zhang is a god or god? You sincerely believe this?
the fact is God commands abortions in some cases and our hearts lie to us no matter how much you want to play the listen to your conscience card
Simon wrote:
the fact is God commands abortions in some cases and our hearts lie to us no matter how much you want to play the listen to your conscience card
I won't fray into the debate on what Numbers 5 means, but I'll add that the Old Law commanded lots of things which were done away with in the New Covenant. For instance, stoning for adultery. Numbers 5 is also part of that law which Christians do not follow.
Okay Simon, since "pregnancy" was not even mention in that particular verse and you kept insisting it is still applicable, then I would assume that I can also add something that isn't mentioned as long as it is "applicable" to the situation. There is no rule stated that the woman whether pregnant or not, should drink the mixture immediately. IF the woman was pregnant like for example 8 months, then they could have waited for that woman to give birth before giving her the mixture therefore "abortion" would not have happened. ^__^
WMS brother, how many years how you been a member of wmscog? Were you able to go to many different states and attend or listen to different zion teachings?
but God’s law is moral God wouldn’t command something immoral
I didn’t add anything.
and I’m pretty sure cutting open the wombs of pregnant women is abortive
This comment was originally posted below "Missionary Ron Ramos Explains Why He Left The WMSCOG After 12 Years Of Membership" on 2/6/13.
ElohimBrother says:
I hope this entire article is read, the information is very urgently important.
This "Missionary" is highly suspect, the way that he talks is nothing at all like how all the Missionaries I've known talk.
This person in your video refuses to use the higher level information I have heard from our Missionaries in the argument he is providing for you. Leaving only two possibilities;
1. A mistake was made during his instruction, or he was neglected by the other church elders; to the point where he is actually a Missionary, but doesn't have the same knowledge as expected. Thus, he was either treated ungracefully, or is purposefully omitting information now.
2. Someone is telling a lie.
Further, most of these accusations are blatant lies.
We respect family members who do not believe. Anyone who is ungraceful towards a non-believer, in the manner exaggerated by this site all the time, is usually chastised at the Zions I have been to, for not being more understanding. What tears families apart IN REALITY are non-believers who threaten to divorce members and also refuse peaceful compromise.
Also with very very few exceptions, we NEVER baptize ANYONE before they know about Father and Mother, because it is sinful to take their name in vain like that if you do not understand that they are your saviors when you are being baptized. I even know five different deacons who explained this to me in detail when God allowed me to bear fruit very eagerly.
Which makes this Missionaries' claims very suspect. Such a Missionary would have said "but that is very rare". Because, and in fact, the only exception to baptizing people early is during or before the Passover, which is an exception given for our salvation AND ALSO only when the person begs to be baptized, like the biblical man in the chariot.
Finally, because this site has trivialized the way we teach information, I will give a different analogy than feeding a baby. If you walk up to a 4th grader, and you ask them "Can you divide by zero?" They will say "NEVER!" If you try to explain how it is possible, they will repeat over and over how every other teacher (who is a professional, while you are not!) says that you are wrong, and dividing by zero is never allowed. It is impossible, and you are a fake teacher for trying to teach that.
In reality, you can divide by zero, with higher levels of math, but it is impossible to understand that unless you possess fundamental learning given step by step, one course at a time, in specific order. If you SKIP that fundamental learning, then they hate you with ignorant and misinformed opinions about what are actually basic principles. They will become prejudiced, and instead of trying to discover whether or not something is possible, they will make a website like this, and tell everyone to never do it, and spread the rumor about how "wrong" you are.
…
So yes, you DO have to understand that Jesus called Isreal a Fig Tree, -BEFORE- it makes any sense at all for us to tell you that Isreal regaining its independence is part of what we believe to be a prophecy.
And YES, you DO have to understand that prophecy before it makes -any sense at all- for us to claim that Ahn Sahng Hong is God.
You have to read the story from beginning, to end, but we ALWAYS tell the whole story, we never hide information or lie about it. When we say "later" we mean it. If you ask them to do it now, a deacon will sit with you for 12 hours straight and go through everything all at once into the wee hours of the night. I've seen that happen on a couple occaisions when the deacons had some spare time. We do provide the information when asked. But in practicality, it is better to divide up all the information into easy to digest bites.
This is the same way that Jesus taught and preached, using Old Testament Prophecies first, and explaining thme in great detail, while telling his apostles "later, I will tell you more". And then the Apostles come back and ask him to teach them more, and then he explains the reality of parables.
Even then, Jesus himself criticized human beings for still being "so slow" to learn, when in fact we should be teachers.
We should examine ourselves, we who are "so slow", and reflect on how to be better teachers.
"Lately, especially in 2011, that rumour was circulating about 2012 end of life"
No, no it hasn't.
Some people do in fact believe it. So somebody somehwere said it, but that is not what we actually teach people.
Nobody I know has any idea what the "2012" theory is.
"Numbers 5 is also part of that law which Christians do not follow."
The law, in its entirety, was revised by Christ. Tha tis to say we still continue to keep ALL of the laws, but we observe that there have been changes instituted by Christ, whois God, with authority to change such things.
So yes, some old testament commandments still apply.
"WMS brother, how many years how you been a member of wmscog? Were you able to go to many different states and attend or listen to different zion teachings?"
6 Years, I was the Fruit of someone who was in the truth 2 years before me, and I grilled the Deacon who baptised me in depth for long hours, because I am extremely critical about prophecies and God. The Deacon himeself had fruit that has been in the truth for 3 years prior to my buddy; and I always loved talkign with all them in great depth and detail.
So I have been in the WMS for 6 years, and possess an accurate retelling of information going back as far as 11 years.
I've been to three different zions, and have been visited by two others when the pastor, missionaries, and deacons flew in so we knew each other and all understood that we all taught the exact same message.
@ Elohim Brother
Ron didn't become Missionary missing "church" and failing to recruit. He was an exceptional (by your standards) leader and played by the rules. He was there in the begining and was there until the recent past. Nobody ever thought of asking him to leave, he left on his own. The things he said took place are obvious to even the most untrained new members after a few short weeks, maybe even days. Problem is, when someone sees an issue, it's waved off by the minders of the recruit as if the issue were menial or trivial. Come on man, the jig is up, enough already. You probably wouldn't be here unless somewhere in the back of your head there are big doubts. Come on home, we'll leave the light on for ya.
Elohim Brother was me, I had to refind my passowrd.
"He was an exceptional (by your standards)"
No, do not put words in my mouth. That display was far from "exceptional", it was in fact ignorant of things that are obvious of even untrained new members after a few short weeks.
This is what I mean about this website taking a few bad cases, and then assuming, with prejudice, that our entire organization acts that way.
I have never been "waved off" of a subject, I, as a person whom is always critical of my own beliefs in my pursuit of the truth, heavily criticize anything I see, so that I can be sure I am doing things correctly in the future.
The opinions expressed in the video FAIL to describe how we normally operate.
I wouldn't call it examplary.
In fact I don't even know who he is from the area, so I can assure you that he was -not- some prodigal son of gospel truths.
"in the back of your head there are big doubts."
Actually I'm here because I am learnign how to fight lies and misinformation between studies. It is ludicrous to assume any of those terrible things are how we operate, as even now at this moment I sit with my beautiful heavenly family.
We didn't have any interruptions, we didn't have any arguments, nobody's mentioning about a loved one who is about to divorce them. STILL nobody knows about this 2012 prediction.
Its going to be a good Sabbath day in the truth, like it always has been. My goodness its amazing that this "terrible cult" isn't exhibiting more of the bad examples you claim are going on.
I'm gonna enjoy the rest of my day, cheers.
WMS brother wrote:
We didn't have any interruptions, we didn't have any arguments, nobody's mentioning about a loved one who is about to divorce them. STILL nobody knows about this 2012 prediction.
Its going to be a good Sabbath day in the truth, like it always has been. My goodness its amazing that this "terrible cult" isn't exhibiting more of the bad examples you claim are going on.
I'm gonna enjoy the rest of my day, cheers.
I'm surprised "nobody knows about this 2012 prediction" seeing as Ahnsahnghong wrote about the year 2012 specifically in one of his books. The title was something like "While the Bridegroom Tarries All the People Fall Asleep." And the deaconess I talked with had a chart detailing the prophetic days and corresponding years that showed how they came up to 2012.
I do hope you enjoy the rest of your day, and I'm glad you are here to share your perspective. Maybe you can help fromtheotherside with the points I presented in another thread. (See the second post on this page: https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=4486&page=4 though it might help to review the rest of the thread so you can see what we already discussed.) If you can provide acceptable reponses to those points, you will make big points for the wmscog in my eyes.
Well it was very craftily implied. Wmscog is good at this.
again I must say I did the 2012 study and was emphatically told it was fulfillment of the feast of tabernacle not end of the world. idk
WMS brother they did preach the end here in india in many sermons,bible studies,and after that on one ocasion said the movie 2012 is a movie inspired by god for the people not only in babylon but also in zion so we must watch it, before we deny it i will also give you the name of the pastor mr johyeonsang he also made a collection in zion saying if mother says 2012 is the end how many of you belive, then why are you saving your money,treasures etc that shows you dont belive in god and he also said that there is not a single member in india who has good faith because people from korea have sold their houses left their jobs and come to india beleving the end is very near if you want i got a list of 66 members which i got from your member of zion,regarding abortion they have taken place as i have mentioned earlier and it is the same person who has encouraged one ,regarding RON we all members in india know he was a missionary we have not only seen his pics with mother but we have also seen him cry and say somethig about mother.why do you people like to spoil peoples name after they leave .we were also told that mother can year fathers footsteps so we should under stand how close the end is this was said 2 years back any ways what has happened so this is total mind control and i rest my case.
You hear that Wms brother????
Sarah2013 wrote:
You hear that Wms brother????
he hears, but he doesn't see
Simon wrote:
again I must say I did the 2012 study and was emphatically told it was fulfillment of the feast of tabernacle not end of the world. idk
Ok, but what did "fulfillment of the feast of tabernacles" really mean?
That must be.
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