Former WMSCOG Missionary Ron Ramos Speaks Out About His Experience

  • #52037

    Elievalkyrie
    Participant

    FTOS, as I have said, funny how the wmscog makes decisions about small trivial things like when a members decides to date (it's their decision too is it not?) but wmscog teaches that the pastor must approve first before they can and when the abortion topics arise, they step back and say "that's for you to decide". And then if they decided to keep it some would say "Why are you having a child now? Don't you know "it's the last days".

    The fact is you just wash your hands when the time is convenient. 

    #52038

    Simon
    Participant

    but if she is pregnant which sometimes she would be

    #52039

    Elievalkyrie
    Participant

    Pregnancy was not stated in the situation and was not even the main topic of that particular bible verse (it was either the woman committed adultery or not and knowing she did when the said curse happens), though I would allow that the woman "can" be pregnant but still it is irrelevant and cannot be use to support pro-abortion issue.

    #52040

    Simon
    Participant

    your argument cannot substantiate an antiabortion arguement 

    #52041

    Stained
    Participant

    I wonder how the "Brotha's" over there in that Atlanta "church" feel about that story about blacks they used to teach.  Oooo, I wonder what Al Sharpton might feel about it.  I love me some Al Sharpton.  The dude shoulda been a comedian.  LMAO just thinking about it.  Can you see Katt Williams taking this story and turning it into a skit ?  Oh man, I'd pay triple the highest priced ticket. 

    #52042

    Elievalkyrie
    Participant

    Which argument? The fact still remains that abortion is still very close to "murder" and people doing it are attacked by their guilty conscience. If the conscience is not enough for you to tell you that you've sinned, then I can't do anything about that.

    #52043

    Simon
    Participant

    thats an argument from emotion not from scripture.

    #52044

    Simon
    Participant

    ultimately you cannot say there is a definitive answer because it would be required of a woman who commited adultery who got pregnant because God did not exempt her.

    #52045

    The mixture made by the Priests does not cause miscarriage. It causes bloating and sickness to the body.

    #52046

    Simon
    Participant

    yes it does cause miscarraige if she commited adultery and is pregnant

    #52047

    genny
    Participant

    Elievalkyrie wrote:

    Pregnancy was not stated in the situation and was not even the main topic of that particular bible verse (it was either the woman committed adultery or not and knowing she did when the said curse happens), though I would allow that the woman "can" be pregnant but still it is irrelevant and cannot be use to support pro-abortion issue.

    Simon wrote:

    your argument cannot substantiate an antiabortion arguement 

    Yeah, I wouldn't use that verse at all, for either side of the argument.

    #52048

    Simon
    Participant

    I would say the verse proves debate is reasonable more than we wish to admit

    #52049

    Elievalkyrie
    Participant

    Conscience is real, no matter how you see it, psychological or emotional or whatever and it is also scripturally supported.

    #52050

    WMS brother
    Participant

    I posted a reply on the main page, but I'll continue a bit here:

    As someone who's been in a few WMS churches pretty much every other day for several years, talking to a variety of people and studying hard and begging for knowledge, I find it curious that I have never heard of the 2012 "end of the world" prophecy your sources are claiming.

    In fact when I asked brothers about this, they too said they had no idea that had been published.

    Further, whenever I ask deacons and pastors about the last day and predictions about the end they always say "we will not know the hour or day". This right here is what we really preach, and our official stance. I honestly don't care what sources you bring up in opposition to this, because "you will not know the day" is what MOST people are actually learning. Anything contrariwise is a blatant exception.

    So that is what is being tought to people widespread, in reality, and for all practical purposes.

    Now obviously the "prophecy" was taught by somebody at some point in time because people are bringing it up, but while it may have been an interesting and compelling speculation at the time, we the WMS at large weren't told that.

    I mean, I don't see how its possible for you guys to claim that we're giving out "end of the world" sermons, when I and all my brother and sisters in the church don't even know it yet.

    I'm fairly certain something was taken either our of context, someone in a position of authority spoke ungracefully, or something was exagerratted, because this isn't the first time the "examining" website has published an "end of the world" statement we never actually believed.

    To finish what was a long post before, and is still a long post now:

    I find it extremely curious and very suspect, that this website is claiming things about the WMS; which we at large never practice.

    I mean you guys do find some interesting articles, and have real life people and their experiences, but I can't possibly stress enough to you guys that such theories and behaviour is NOT typical of our society in general.

    #52051

    elijah
    Participant

    Hi WMS Brother. I think you should understand that maybe you havent heard everything about WMS. I dont know in which churches you have been to be honest. About the end of the world, NOW they are saying that "we will not know the hour or day" and they used to say it before to members that were "unfaithful" or just new. Besides that verse I was already shown these ones:

    AMOS 3:7 – 7Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.

    They used this verse to explain that we will know when the end happens.

    REVELATION 3:3 –  3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

    About this verse they used to focus on the part "but if you do not wake up", meaning, if you are awake you will know the time.

    If you have been in the church for a long time, you should remember how they mentioned that "Father is coming before the appointed time", and the appointed time was 2012. If you have never heard about 2012 then maybe ask somebody that you trust that has been in the church for a while, and ask him about the fulfillment of Herod's temple. I will post the notes I took from my pastor soon. 

    If you read this forum, there are members from peru mentioning about 2012, from New York, from LA, from India and from Korea, so I think its absurd to say that it was just a "rumor"; there had to be some way for all these pastors to know about it and even explain it through the bible. I'm sure not everybody heard about it, they stopped mentioning it a couple years ago, but its one of those things that everybody knew but nobody mentioned so loud. 

    So I agree with people that say "I never heard 2012", I think thats possible, but please dont offend those people that did hear it by saying "it was never said", I think that makes WMSCOG look worst. 

    #52052

    WMS brother
    Participant

    "maybe you havent heard everything about WMS"

    Actually we are -extremly- forthcoming, honest, and -actively encourage- people to ask for more studies.

    In fact, the only people who "haven't" heard everything, are people who don't take advantage of all the studies, or who avoid our gatherings and preaching practice, and when Pastor gives extra sermons and delivers news.

    Which is what I believe about this "missionary". He is INCREDIBLY underinformed, to the point where I, a mere brother, possessing no wisdom to compare with another man nor God's, understand the methods we are instructed to use to "recruit" people better than he does. That is a humongous red flag.

    "They used this verse to explain that we will know when the end happens."

    There are clues, such as "this generation" and references to geological events and political events. And it humors us to try to decipher them. But, and the majority of our church members will echo me here "we don't know for sure". We say it again and again, over and over. Any "promises" of the end of the world are bogus, and whoever wrote them was bogus, or being sensational to try and grab attention so we could preach to people. I mean, nobody actually believes that. I am not brainwashed into thinking that I know when the world is going to end, point in fact I don't know.

    Now people who have been cherry-picked to have had bad experiences may show up on this site, but that is just simply not how we really work. And I've been in since 2006. None of the Missionaries I know, and I know five churches worth, never acted anything like this guy Ron.

    "If you read this forum, there are members"

    There are a handful of regular members. I remember most of the same usernames from the last time I decided to post here.

    There are also a handful of "testimonies", compared to the literal near-thousand brothers and sisters I personally know or knew.

    The testimonies here, while perhaps real and credible, ARE NOT the actual opinion of our church by and large. Obviously -somebody- did say it in order for the discussion to be brought up at all. But it has never been a real or popular opinion, and in fact the exact opposite of "doomsday dates" have been preached for even longer than I've been here. People I know who were in the truth before me as mere brothers, by years, were also told "you will not know the day".

    I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I AM saying that the entire strategy of this site to -exagerrate- what is essentially -my own- popular opinion into something it never was, is sheer and simple propoganda.

    #52053

    Jesus of Nazareth
    Participant

    WMS brother wrote:

    "maybe you havent heard everything about WMS"

    Actually we are -extremly- forthcoming, honest, and -actively encourage- people to ask for more studies.

    In fact, the only people who "haven't" heard everything, are people who don't take advantage of all the studies, or who avoid our gatherings and preaching practice, and when Pastor gives extra sermons and delivers news.

    Which is what I believe about this "missionary". He is INCREDIBLY underinformed, to the point where I, a mere brother, possessing no wisdom to compare with another man nor God's, understand the methods we are instructed to use to "recruit" people better than he does. That is a humongous red flag.

    "They used this verse to explain that we will know when the end happens."

    There are clues, such as "this generation" and references to geological events and political events. And it humors us to try to decipher them. But, and the majority of our church members will echo me here "we don't know for sure". We say it again and again, over and over. Any "promises" of the end of the world are bogus, and whoever wrote them was bogus, or being sensational to try and grab attention so we could preach to people. I mean, nobody actually believes that. I am not brainwashed into thinking that I know when the world is going to end, point in fact I don't know.

    Now people who have been cherry-picked to have had bad experiences may show up on this site, but that is just simply not how we really work. And I've been in since 2006. None of the Missionaries I know, and I know five churches worth, never acted anything like this guy Ron.

    "If you read this forum, there are members"

    There are a handful of regular members. I remember most of the same usernames from the last time I decided to post here.

    There are also a handful of "testimonies", compared to the literal near-thousand brothers and sisters I personally know or knew.

    The testimonies here, while perhaps real and credible, ARE NOT the actual opinion of our church by and large. Obviously -somebody- did say it in order for the discussion to be brought up at all. But it has never been a real or popular opinion, and in fact the exact opposite of "doomsday dates" have been preached for even longer than I've been here. People I know who were in the truth before me as mere brothers, by years, were also told "you will not know the day".

    I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I AM saying that the entire strategy of this site to -exagerrate- what is essentially -my own- popular opinion into something it never was, is sheer and simple propoganda.

     This may just be the most ignorant post ever.  This CANNOT be a serious post.  It just can't. 

    #52054

    Cephas' Brother
    Participant

    WMS Brother, you said it. Any promise about the end of days is bogus, and so is the person who did the promising. Now go back and read your Green Book. Ahn claims to be able to discern when the second coming is. Case closed.

    #52055

    Sarah2013
    Participant

    Why is this so hard for them to see?

    #52056

    WMS brother
    Participant

    It is a serious post.

    Lets take a moment and look at it. This website is a constant train of negative adds defaming the WMS. It is not a neutral party investigating the truth about something, it is in reality heavily biased and extremely close minded.

    And here is the proof: Has there ever been an article on the front page here, or an anti-WMS member of this forum, who praised the WMS for anything, and in addition to that reccomended attendance for some kind of positive reason?

    In reality, were all pretty humble, very honest, and very foward. We like to do things step-by-step because thats literally how education courses work in real life, but we offer it upon request; and we, like myself, try to inspire other members to be compassionarte and diplomatic with non-believing family members.

    Thats what actually happens most of the time, you know, during the other 364 days of the year.

    "Now go back and read your Green Book"

    The second coming is clearly defined and prophesied, Jesus even takes the effort to explain that he's "telling us this now" so we believe in him at that appointed time.

    The Destruction, which is an event which happens -after- the second coming,

    -in a length of time no less than required to "remind us" through the holy spirit,

    -and also no more than "this generation"

    … is a more ambiguous timeframe which -has- not been predicted (and read this next important part) BY POPULAR WMS OPINION.

    We were never actually TAUGHT that.

    Yes it was published, yes some people thought that. Yes, maybe it was a PR stunt. But nobody who ACTUALLY joined the religion was taught that. I, and everyone I know going back to before this Ron guy now that I come to think of it, have always tought "we don't really know the last day" EVEN when we were musing and discussing prophecies about said last day.

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