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In another thread, fromtheotherside, speaking of the materials presented againt the wmscog, said "none of your evidences speak for itself. if you have such evidence present it without your explanation."
I presented several 'evidences without explanation' there, but I think it would be a good idea to take each one separately into its own thread. Here's the first one:
Regarding the teaching of the Catholic Church being the Antichrist: the Ostrogoths were not destroyed in 538, the '10 kingdoms' from the Roman empire were not as the WMSCOG presents, 5 were destroyed not 3, and the destruction or survival of these 'kingdoms' did not depend on their following the Catholic Church. These are historical, textbook facts.
I originally did not link to my research about it, because fromtheotherside did not want explanation, but if you'd like to see the research, I've collected it here:
http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2011/11/daniels-prophecy.html
http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2011/08/is-666-pope-part-3.html
fromtheotherside tried to answer this point but so far was unsuccessful. I'll copy those pieces of the conversation here from the other thread, just to keep everything together.
fromtheotherside wrote:
the beast is not punshed untill 1000 years after the saints go to heaven to reign with christ, Hello, read revelations. If the saints are in heaven with God christ had already came. your not even being specific with your arguments but just keep ranting lie lie lie, cuz that's all you can say because you can't back up your own views.
Hello! I thought we were discussing Dan 7? No point in changing the facts of sequence to fit your own idea of what you think Dn 7 means.
emil your so cute, Dan 7 and revelations support eachother. I have no idea what your argument is anymore. lolz.
Simply put, I am saying your interpretation of the Dn 7 prophecy is proved wrong. Your interpretation claims that the little horn in Dn 7:8 is the papacy which grew out of the Roman empire. This is proved false because Jesus enters the scene in verse 13-14 which is an event that clearly happens after verse 8 as I have shown you. In other words, the events narrated in Dn 7 have already occured before the coming of Jesus.
This sequence destroys your interpretation. I have already shown you that your argument that the events are not in sequence is erroneous. Good day.
Emil, you are actually right!!!!! I had to cross check my catholic bible word for word and here is what it reads:
Give me a second, I am typing…..
emil girl, I already proved you wrong with your verse 13 14 theory, so try again.
The new American bible, Catholic bible press. NAB. Copyright 1987 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
Still typing…….
and as I said changing the bible does not have to be literal, adding to can be done by words and actions, doesn't have to be literally done with a printer. Also the fact that catholics teach the ten commandments as Keep holy the lords day which they make sunday, by their athority, is changing the commandments.
That’s actually not accurate.
fromtheotherside wrote:
emil girl, I already proved you wrong with your verse 13 14 theory, so try again.
FTOS girl, when did that happen? All you said to defend yourself was that prophecies are not always in sequence and I already debunked that statement by showing you the flow of the entire chapter.
I see a lot of equivocation fallacies
Chapter of 20 from my Catholic Bible. Word for word. This does not mean I am siding or agreeing with the Catholic faith but trying to stress wmscog's point. So here is goes, FTOS.
Exodus 20: The Ten commandemts. Then God delivered all these commandments:
2. I, the Lord, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Eygypt, that place you of slavery. 3. You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth. 5. you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God. inflicting punishment for their fathers wickedness on the children of those who hate me, don to the third and fourth generation. 6. but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain. For the Lord will not leave unpunished him who takes his name in vain.
Now here is the important topic at hand…….
8. Remember to keep holy the Sabath day. 9. Six days you may labourand do all your work, 10. but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord, your God. No work may be done then either by you, or your son or daughter, or your male or female slave, or your beast, or by alien who lives with you. 11. In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that is in them but on the seventh day he rested. That is hy the Lord has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
12. Honor your father and your mother, that you may have a long life in the land which the Lord, your God is giving you.
13. You shall not kill
14. You shall not commit adultry
15. You shall not steal.
16. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17. You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male or female slave, noe his ox or ass, nor anything else that belongs to him.
That is quote on quote from my Holy Bible NAB Catholic Bible press 9033BC. No internet cut and paste but straight from the bible.
It actually mentions Sabbath. Emil, I am sorry, I was wrong. You are presumtiously right.
Thank you Sarah2013. Now FTOS is backing off from his original claim and saying that his "changing the bible" claim is not literal. How convenient. Why can't he just admit to his error? I don't blsme him actually. He was just saying what he had been told.
I know, dear. You won’t believe I had to pull out boxes of bible to cross check word for word after getting out my Catholic bible. . Then turn on my laptop to type faster. Lol.
Though no longer Catholic, I had to address that issue. Too bad we can’t post photos or I’d show the bible as is.
The problem is the Catholic church does teach Lords day not Sabbath
Maybe they call it Lords day the same way Wmscog calls father and mother. Have you thought of it that way also.
For Catholics, Lord means Jesus Christ and no other. So I believe, calling Sunday the Lord's day because he rose from the dead, should not be objectionable for anyone who believes in Him.
On the other hand, no amount of Saturday worship is right if you are worshipping a false god.
I will agree with your second paragraph for sure
Good one, Simon and Emil. Now, that’s what i call a sincere debate.
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