- Topic
I would like to know what does the WMS teach concerning John 5:18?
16. So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17. In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18. For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
The same thing as all christians should, John was expressing the Pharisees hypocritical opinion not the truth
After all, we all know Jesus never sinned
Lets hear a response to the original question from FTOS, angelwings, wms brother, Jim, etc.
I’m answering the answer I gave as a member
So it doesn't matter to the wms that Jesus was "breaking the sabbath" which would be the same as him not keeping it? Either you keep the sabbath or you don't according to the wms. When I was a member, if I only kept one of the 3 services, then I was considered as not keeping the sabbath day. I remember members being encouraged to find jobs that didn't require them to work on Saturdays (if they had a job that even required them to work part of a Saturday).
the factis he didn’t break the mitzvah only the takanot
Can you explain Simon? Sorry but I'm not familiar with those terms.
In simple terms mitzvah is a commandment of god where as takanah is a rule from man
The pharisees added rules for various reasons and held them as binding as words from god himself this is why jesus was accused of breaking sabbath
Simon wrote:
In simple terms mitzvah is a commandment of god where as takanah is a rule from man
The pharisees added rules for various reasons and held them as binding as words from god himself this is why jesus was accused of breaking sabbath
Oh that brings another thought. The commandments in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 both talk about keping the sabbath. Both say work for 6 days and keep the 7th day holy. That would mean keeping one day out of 7 holy is mitzvah while keeping it on a specific day is takanah because for the Jews that is the 7th day. The choice of the specific day is a human choice because that was the end of the week for Jews then.
When applied to the days of creation it is only allegorical. The number of days in the creation story don't correspond to earth days in any case. Even the idea of 1 day equals 1000 years is wrong and doesn't correspond to what we know. Each day in the creation story did not even correspond to the same period of time. Though I believe God is the author of creation, one cannot take it literally as far as time is concerned. I am bringing this up because the text in Exodus alludes to the story in Genesis.
Actually no the command says the seventh day not one in seven
Yes. It depends on when you start counting. Saturday works for the Jews of that time. It doesn't work for everyone. As I mentioned before, people have different weekends in different places.
God established his own calendar
Simon wrote:
In simple terms mitzvah is a commandment of god where as takanah is a rule from man
The pharisees added rules for various reasons and held them as binding as words from god himself this is why jesus was accused of breaking sabbath
Then doesn't the wms do the same thing? Where does is say in the Bible that the Jews stayed in the synagogue all day long on Saturday? Jesus clearly didn't do that. He was out and about healing people, etc. So why do wms members feel like they are required to stay in the church all day long?
depends on the "zion" mine encouraged it but it didn't even come close to requiring it… Pastor even said all that was required was 9/3/8 or 10/230/730
You all reminded me of this…
I saw a debate about the Sabbath once (you know, Saturday vs. Sunday), and finally someone pipes up and says neither one of you is really following God's command because the command says to work six days, and take the Sabbath rest on the seventh. You both only work five days a week and take two days off. If you really want to follow the command you will do your regular work for six days not five.
Thought it was an interesting take on the subject.
The command isn’t about employment
Simon wrote:
The command isn't about employment
Thank you..
Simon wrote:
Actually no the command says the seventh day not one in seven
Thank you again..
What many people overlook are the definitions of 'A' and 'THE'. That is very important. 2 Cor 11:4 speaks about a Jesus and the Jesus. The Ap. didn't preach about A Jesus. They preached about THE Jesus; THE only man on earth who was not just a man but God in the flesh. So, if anyone preaches that we should keep A day as the Sabbath is preaching a false teaching because the bible says to keep THE 7th day as THE Sabbath. Ex 12:1-2 is when God gave Moses the first month not the 1st day BUT I am a bit confused about Ex 12:21. After God finished speaking to Moses, it says 'then Moses told them to do all this stuff at once.' It doesn't say, 'when the 10th day came' or 'after 14 days had passed' or anything to suggest that time had gone by before they prepared for the PO. Immediately following Gods words, it says 'then Moses.. at once..'. This could bring someone, like me, to think that the day God told Moses how to keep PO was actually the 14th day. I mean, reading it without adding anything, that's what it looks like.
Simon wrote:
The command isn't about employment
It's about the day of rest. But if you were going to strictly obey all the commands of God, then you could look at it the other way and say that it's a command to work for 6 days as well.
genny wrote:
Simon wrote:
The command isn't about employment
It's about the day of rest. But if you were going to strictly obey all the commands of God, then you could look at it the other way and say that it's a command to work for 6 days as well.
What does God consider work? Nu 15:32 A man was found chopping wood on the Sabbath. He was later stoned for working on the Sabbath. If I were to go into the office Monday through Friday, 'rest' on Saturday and chop wood on Sunday, I would still be obeying the command. What Simon pointed out was the obvious point that other person was trying to make that people normally work Monday through Friday and don't go to work Saturday or Sunday thus working for 5 days and resting on 2. Simon said, and is right, that the command is not about employment. Someone who is unemployed, such as myself, can still obey that command. Work is work whether you're paid or not.
renita.payno wrote:
What many people overlook are the definitions of 'A' and 'THE'. That is very important. 2 Cor 11:4 speaks about a Jesus and the Jesus. The Ap. didn't preach about A Jesus. They preached about THE Jesus; THE only man on earth who was not just a man but God in the flesh. So, if anyone preaches that we should keep A day as the Sabbath is preaching a false teaching because the bible says to keep THE 7th day as THE Sabbath. Ex 12:1-2 is when God gave Moses the first month not the 1st day BUT I am a bit confused about Ex 12:21. After God finished speaking to Moses, it says 'then Moses told them to do all this stuff at once.' It doesn't say, 'when the 10th day came' or 'after 14 days had passed' or anything to suggest that time had gone by before they prepared for the PO. Immediately following Gods words, it says 'then Moses.. at once..'. This could bring someone, like me, to think that the day God told Moses how to keep PO was actually the 14th day. I mean, reading it without adding anything, that's what it looks like.
I am not disputing the difference between "a" and "the". Look at how the term "the 7th day" is used. It is relative to a starting point. For example "Plant this shoot in a pot indoors. Keep watering it for 6 days. On THE 7th day, uproot it and plant it out in your garden." It is not by itself an absolute day. That is what I mean.
In fact, when you quote Ex 12:1-2, how many of us are actually following those months?
The same way, for people who live in places where a Saturday holiday is not a norm, their week begins on a different day. To insist that they should not work on Saturday is exactly the kind of lack of compassion of the Pharisees that Jesus condemned. I know for a fact that many wmscog members in my country don't have a holiday on Saturdays. What does the wmscog want to do about it? Their only option is to stop working. Then how do they tithe?
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