- Topic
As wmscog says Ahnshahnhong preached for 37 years from 1948 when he was baptized in SDA(Seventh day adventist) till his death in 1985 +3 years of Jesus Christ’s preaching = 40 years reign of King David (the reason for his qualification of 2nd coming/ the root of david). I want to ask wmscog –
Q1- why then he left SDA and opened a new church?
Q1a-Was SDA doctrine wrong? If yes :Then why he got baptized in a wrong doctrine? Didn’t he know it already being 2nd christ? (Possible Answer)-May be he had no other way because no “true” church existed.
Q1b-So why he took 16 years to open a new church? (Possible Answer)-Maybe because he had to do hard work (Stone carrying as shown in wmscog videos) for a living during the day and had little time in the night to write his books (why din’t Jesus write any book?).
Q1c-So why did God put so much burden on his shoulders? (Not fair. 1st coming christ had only 1 assignment. Poor 2nd coming.)
Q2- Was SDA right? Then why open a new doctrine?
Q3-As Ahnshahnhong started a new church in 1964 and stared preaching new ways of Gospel, then he only scored 1964 to 1985 =21 years. So he comes short 16 years to be eligible for Christship. Oooops!! (Christship is a new word I discovered due to the need on the “new age”). (Possible Solution)-May be they can add sweet 16 years of ‘mother’ who must not be a mother at that age i guess and must be beautiful to qualify to be the bride of the Lamb/Ahnshahnhong/….(somebody please write here the name of Mother’s fist husband)!!
Also Ash didn’t fulfill the requirement of Melchizedek. Hebrews 7:3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.
As we all know, this verse is speaking of Jesus. Ash is not without beginning of days or end of life. We know he (Ash) was born because the church celebrates his birth every year. We know he died, not like the lie the church tells that he got on a train going to china.
Romans 6:9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Christ cannot die again=Ash is not God. He is not 2CC.
Disturbed wrote:
Also Ash didn't fulfill the requirement of Melchizedek. Hebrews 7:3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.
As we all know, this verse is speaking of Jesus. Ash is not without beginning of days or end of life. We know he (Ash) was born because the church celebrates his birth every year. We know he died, not like the lie the church tells that he got on a train going to china.
Romans 6:9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Lol…
Sarah2013 wrote:
Disturbed wrote:
Also Ash didn't fulfill the requirement of Melchizedek. Hebrews 7:3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.
As we all know, this verse is speaking of Jesus. Ash is not without beginning of days or end of life. We know he (Ash) was born because the church celebrates his birth every year. We know he died, not like the lie the church tells that he got on a train going to china.
Romans 6:9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
Lol…
Romans 6:9 ahhh that is my favorite! Why? because you just can't deny it, it's the easiest verse in the book to understand and it is the first lie they tell. Great memories, I remember being in my first few battles, whenever the subject would shift off brainwashing and over to the bible, I would simply lean back in my easy chair and say, you wanna talk bible? let's start and stop with ROMANS 6:9! When you can explain that one we can move on to another verse.
They just can't explain away their own #1 lie. not even if they pass over the international date line. Of course they do have permission from mamma to tell another lie whenever it is convenient
144000 said the following on this thread and I just want to clear the air, here is what she/he says
The members of this forum will continuously shift the goalposts until they find something you haven't learned about yet and attack it. You may think you are strong now, but this den of vipers will strike you where you are weak eventually. The church is already monitoring for when and where they "cross the line" and threaten the rights of our beloved brothers and sisters. Please rest assured that no matter how hard you argue, the Administrator will not cease his bias against us, that is a loosing battle, and the members of this forum have already been preached to for years; do not dwell on them for too long.
This website will suck hours or days of your time away just to navigate through a single conversation with them, I urge you to spend your time more productively, you can already find all of the accusations they make against us at "thetruewmscog" website, in addition to more sermons and studies.
The longer you stay on this forum the liklier it is that eventually a topic will be presented which you can only answer vaguely, and wherever two or more vague answers conflict they will use that as ammunition to attack us because it is beyond them to admit that we are fallible human beings; rather they will accuse the people who taught you of teaching you wrong, even if it is your own memory which is to blame.
The longer you stay on this forum the liklier it is that eventually a topic will be presented which you cannot answer, and then they will criticize your inability to answer.
We do not possess infinite love and patience like Mother, and we should not strain ourselves here to the point where we loose our cool, please brothers, if we cannot set a good example to them, then we should let them be. We should try -harder- to be more loving and patient, not wear ourselves down so that we are irritable.
In fact, pray kindly about them, and wish them well, for in so doing they may turn to God. But if they do not, then by so doing you may pour burning coals upon their heads.
Let us not contribute to their Ad-Hominem attacks by proving to them that we can become upset or defensive like regular human beings, it is beyond them to understand that we take their accusations personally.
Question(S)
and the members of this forum have already been preached to for years; do not dwell on them
How can you be so sure of this?
they will accuse the people who taught you of teaching you wrong, even if it is your own memory which is to blame
Can so many people with similar stories have bad memory?
The church is already monitoring for when and where they "cross the line" and threaten the rights of our beloved brothers and sisters.
I have read almost all of this Forum and I don’t think no one is trying to threaten or cross the line with the brothers and sisters. If anything I have read on how the Forum members say that the WMS has many loving and caring brothers and sisters. That there are many good people in Zion.
I don’t think anyone here would hurt any member from the church, this is not what this site is about.
If I have overlooked something please show me. To my knowledge this site is about examining the wmscog. Although I do see however that they do have a problem with the church’s doctrine and it’s leaders, people are entitled to their opinion and religious freedom.
People talk about the president everyday do you see him getting upset, suing, or monitoring people because they said something negative about him. No it’s ridiculous you can’t stop everyone in the world from speaking their mind, at least not in the USA.
Brothers and sisters no one here hates you or is against you!!
Sarah2013 wrote:
renita.payno wrote:
I'm with Disturbed. I saw many red flags before but I didn't want to lose my salvation either until, like she did, I realized there was no salvation to be received from the WMSCOG. I, too, believe that friendship will be restored once they see what we see as truth because the only reason many of aren't talking is because of the WMSCOG.
But it is weird how they like to show us where the math "adds up" exactly but when we show them where it doesn't, suddenly it doesn't matter..
I hear you.
You know.. I was still afraid to admit out loud that Zahng and Ash weren't God. Lol… I didn't want to commit the unforvigable sin.
Great post, Storm.
Had a wonderful sabbath today. Just reporting in to say that I was well fed, well rested, and in a fresh and perfect frame of mind to make sound judgements. No water deprivation here, some brothers and sisters had a good laugh about that story.
Storm
"I have read almost all of this Forum and I don’t think no one is trying to threaten or cross the line with the brothers and sisters."
Then you haven't read almost all of this forum, I believe Disturbed in particular was looking for Social Security numbers, something I've saved copies of in case any actual identity theft happens.
"I don’t think anyone here would hurt any member from the church, this is not what this site is about."
You obviously weren't reading when the person Anonymous threatened our lives (among a laundry-list of threats) in a link posted from here and which is still permitted by the Admin to remain. I find it disgusting that the Admin hasn't deleted that person with their blatant threats of violence, stalking, and admission of cyber-warfare. A full statement will be provided to the police at my earliest opportunity, I have no intention of neglecting it.
"People talk about the president everyday do you see him getting upset, suing, or monitoring people because they said something negative about him."
You also must not have been watching the news recently, he is actually addressing a potential scandal for "alleged" profiling and auditing people into bankruptcy whom spoke agaisnt him (or at least he is being blamed for it).
"Brothers and sisters no one here hates you or is against you!"
Do you even read the ridicule, mocking, derogatory statments, and in some cases actual curse words that are used against us here?
Did you even read the post from the guy that visited his Pastor and I quote went there deliberately to "troll" him?
Do you even read the call to protest against our locations with pickets?
This is pointless, I shouldn't have to repeat what other brothers have already said here a hundred times. Logging off, you all can continue to argue amongst yourselves.
I was really hoping you would comment on my posts about the Harvest.. =(
renita.payno
I already explained what separates a pagan Holy Day from a mundane celebration.
Nobody in the WMSCOG bowed down to walls with ancestors listed on them, or a table full of idols.
Also food is never unclean or heretical unless prayed over or presented to idols. This is why you can eat thanksgiving food, even prepare big feasts, and eat Christmas food, and et cetera; food is never unclean as long as you prevent it from being sacrificed to idols. And just in case you've already fogotten for the third time I've posted now; no harvest festival food from WMSCOG was ever prepared before idols or prayed upon presumptuously.
As opposed to Christmas itself, which was forbidden by 16th century puritanical denominations because they have already exposed its pagan roots. This is not a claim we are fabricating on our own, it is one already well established in historical fact. In fact many churches outright banned Christmas decorations because of heresy.
But lets go even further back in time than that:
"In fact, the church forbade the use of Christmas trees well into the third century when, some historians claim, the church managed to obliterate non-Christian practices by absorbing Saturnalia into the feast of Christmas. "
But since that isn't quite specific enough and not worthy of sourcing, lets go back and take an even closer look at what the early church thought of it. Listen to and heed the message of an elder in the early church, Tertullian, who was at least correct in this matter:
"Tertullian (circa 160 – 230), an early Christian leader and a prolific writer, complained that too many fellow-Christians had copied the Pagan practice of adorning their houses with lamps and with wreathes of laurel at Christmas time"
If that is not a good enough explanation on both accounts of your questions, then it will suffice you to respect that they are good enough for me.
"By us who are strangers to Sabbaths, and new moons, and festivals, once acceptable to God, the Saturnalia, the feasts of January, the Brumalia and Matronalia, are now frequented; gifts are carried to and fro, new year's day presents are made with din, and sports and banquets are celebrated with uproar" (Tertullian, On Idolatry, chap. 14, quoted by Hislop, p. 93).
In fact I would even go so far as to argue that these heretical observances replaced the true feasts of God in the early church, as Terullian is clearly complaining.
Indeed such is testified by the urgent insistance of Apostle Paul: Acts. 18:21 "But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return to you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus."
"Therefore let us keep the Festival" I Cor.5:7-8, NIV
So you can see that Christmas is not just a little heretical, its EXTRA heretical.
While the harvest festival you are criticizing regards food, of which, food is never unclean. No WMSCOG members prepared such food in front of idols or in prayer to idols. You seem to enjoy that picture of a family bowing down to their wall of ancestors, but such a thing we did not do no matter how hard you want to project it. So now it should be abundantly clear that the food is clean, but the Pagan Rituals of physical Christmas idols (holly, wreaths, yule trees) are heresy.
144000 wrote:
While the harvest festival you are criticizing regards food, of which, food is never unclean. No WMSCOG members prepared such food in front of idols or in prayer to idols. You seem to enjoy that picture of a family bowing down to their wall of ancestors, but such a thing we did not do no matter how hard you want to project it. So now it should be abundantly clear that the food is clean, but the Pagan Rituals of physical Christmas idols (holly, wreaths, yule trees) are heresy.
Once again.. I believe you failed to review what I've given you. I responded, in the other thread, to your comment about the absence of rituals, prayer, and requests for blessing during Chuseok. I showed you how the Chuseok festival does include these things. At 1st we were talking about whether or not Zahng celebrated a pagan festival. Then the conversation shifted into whether or not Chuseok is a pagan festival. You said it wasn't and I showed you evidence that it was. So, do you now agree that Chuseok is a pagan festival? Please respond in the other thread.
https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=5125&page=3
If you say Christms is heresy because of the tree and such, then Chuseok is also heresy because of the sungpyeon and such.
renita.payno
But the WMSCOG did not create or hang any pagan decorations or lift up anything of pagan significance, the only thing we did was make this type of food.
Let me repeat it for you, so that maybe you can understand.
Food is never unclean.
Food is never unclean.
Food is never unclean.
Do we understand that clearly now?
So now that we understand that first basic step, here are the exceptions to that.
Now, repeat with me:
If I pray to idols food is unclean.
If I bow down to idols food is unclean.
If I'm intentionally attempting to worship idols in my heart food is unclean
If I create a physical object (such as yule tree, or wreath) which is dedicated to idols the food is unclean.
Now, take a breather, then go back and read it over again, okay?
We did not create any physical items which are associated with pagan festivals. We did not pray or call it a holy day of God. We did not say that it has ANY SIGNIFICANCE other than wanting to welcome families and have some food prepared for them.
Okay, so now, do you understand, that when your talking about all theese rituals like bowing down to a wall of your ancestors; do you understand clearly that WE DID NOT DO THAT?
Again, for clarity. WE DID NOT DO THAT.
I've got better things to do today, so other readers can keep track of how long it takes you to forget this.
144,000:
I'm glad you have admitted you were wrong about Chuseok. I'm glad you have admitted that Chuseok is indeed a pagan festival today regardless of it's origin.
There's no proof either way, though. Just like there's no proof that Chuseok has pagan origin, there's also no proof it doesn't. Also, the WMSCOG highly encourages us to stay away from any pagan festival!! ANY PAGAN FESTIVAL! If you have "enough faith" to stay away from Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Halloween, funerals, Chistenings, weddings, birthdays, baby showers.. the list goes on.. then you should stay away. So… WHY IS IT that Chairwoman Zahng Gil Jah [not Mother, but Chairwoman] is publicly involved in the pagan festival Chuseok? Even GP warned the people to beware of idol worship and mentioned Chuseok. According to the advice given in the church, Chairwoman Zahng Gil Jah should not have been there. Don't tell me and my "brothers" and "sisters" that it's best to be in Zion on Dec. 25th whilst Chairwoman Zahng Gil Jah is celebrating Chuseok with her Korean collegues.
And how does creating a tree make food unclean? That makes ZERO sense. Sacrificing food to idols makes it unclean not the tree.
So this is your point. Okay. Yes your pastor said stay away from this and that, but most likely he heard something from a brother who told him, Hey pastor baby showers are pagan because of … this and that… and then the pastor said reallY? And then now he says don't go. But I don't know if you are mistaken and some group leader told you not to go. But here in korea we go. We go to weddings, we go to funerals and baby showers. As long as its not in a Babylon building. Also we do well not to worship idols. So you have the wrong Idea.
fromtheotherside wrote:
So this is your point. Okay. Yes your pastor said stay away from this and that, but most likely he heard something from a brother who told him, Hey pastor baby showers are pagan because of … this and that… and then the pastor said reallY? And then now he says don't go. But I don't know if you are mistaken and some group leader told you not to go. But here in korea we go. We go to weddings, we go to funerals and baby showers. As long as its not in a Babylon building. Also we do well not to worship idols. So you have the wrong Idea.
Why the hell is a pastor taking advice from a brother? That goes against the COC! And why is it that we're always the ones who are mistaken or misunderstanding our pastors? We were even encouraged not to go to the reception after the wedding. I know this for a fact because a sister in my group got married in Zion and my missionary said we schouldn't go. Shouldn't + couldn't = schouldn't meaning a suggestion that's actually a command.
Who knows why the MISSIONARY said don't do. Did you ask him? if no then don't presume
And yes they can take advice because hello they are KOREAN and can't speak English, and don't know our customs or culture!
fromtheotherside wrote:
Who knows why the MISSIONARY said don't do. Did you ask him? if no then don't presume
I did ask her. I'm Renita Cheri Payno. I question everything.. =)
SHE said because there's more than likely going to be alcohol and unholy music at the reception and it's no place to be for a child of F&M. It brings unnecessary temptation unpon us. This is why we were DISCOURAGED to attend any pagan festival because we might "revert" to our previous ways. That was only one of the reasons but the main one.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.