[Sarah2013]

There has been a bit of a debate regarding the celebration of Christmas and it's origin. I have read many post regarding this celebration and it's origin. So now, here is my question, if Christmas is a pagan celebration or the like as some claim, then does that make the worship of a proven false god(s) ok? Here is why that particular debate holds no water compared to wmscog's doctrine and claim:

1. Christmas is a pagan holiday 

2. Sunday is sun-god worship

3. Zahng Gil Jah is god – mother god. who is the bride of God, which makes her a second god aside from God himself. There are no real scripture supporting this idea or belief either except the one given as support by Wmscog Gal. 4:26, of which, by the way, is incorrect. 

4. Ahnsanghong is the Holy Spirit/God. He left behind earthly children and his tombstone makes reference to that. He came from unbelieving parents originally. So God almighty, of all he could have chosen to be born into, he chose that which he is against. His books and the teaching  of Wmscog have so many inconsistencies and descrepancies – the teaching of Wmscog and the teaching of Ahng are not in accordance. 

5. Zahng Gil Jah, by the way does not move about the country. When was the last time she came to United States to spread the gospel of her son or her husband. Is she the bride of her husband or son. 

6. Jesus only made mention of a father and not a mother. 

Confusion! Confusion! Confusion! How can Christmas or sunday worship be bigger than the above?

I say that to say in very simple and plain English, If you want to keep at Christmas being a pagan holiday then for crying out loud. Keep your hands clean from sin. All of the above raises eyebrows but tell me, which do you think is really a problem, Christmas? Sunday worship? You got to be kidding me. If this is what Wmscog wants to hold onto, then you sincerely do not understand the God of the universe. To mimic him falsely is a serious sin. 

[Sarah2013]

[Sarah2013]

In my country pagans are people who didn’t go to church. Here in America it means so much more. Almost satanic. I’m gonna be in Chennia for a month so will gist you all on the gods, churches, and so on. Will be my first time there. I can’t wait to see if they have Wmscog. Any suggestions? Do let me know. I’m not there for Wmscog purposes.

[emil]

Simon wrote:

Yet with what church did these social customs appear

Social customs are connected with the life of a people living in a place. Now if you say those customs started with the church, then you cannot rightfully say that the church copied pagan customs can you? That is a contradiction.

[Simon]

No I said the church started the customs being associated with easter not the customs themselves

[emil]

Simon wrote:

No I said the church started the customs being associated with easter not the customs themselves

Sorry I have no clue what exactly you mean. Could you elaborate?

Now about the name Pasche. The point I am making is that the CC is accused of naming the feast of the resurrection after some pagan goddess. That accusation is false because the official name is Pasche. Now you may argue anything about the date of what you call Pascha but it has nothing to do with what I said.

Simon wrote:

Lastly the sacred calendar isn't of man and isn't solar but lunar this makes any accuracy moot in fact the moon isn't at all accounted in the Roman calender

Some problems with your statement. I do not know what you mean by sacred calendar. Where exactly did it come from? I believe you have two wrong assumptions there or possibly, your statement can give rise to two wrong understandings by mixing between the Roman calendar and liturgical calendar.

1. The dates for commemorating the death and resurrection of Jesus as done by most mainstream churches today including the CC are set by the spring equinox (solar) and the lunar month. The lunar month is still very much in use in the CC.

2. The moon is not the only thing that determined the set times in the OT. Take for instance the Sabbath day itself. It had nothing to do with the moon. It was asyncronous with the lunar month. The times for the start and end of Sabbath were entirely solar related.

[Simon]

The sacred calender is the one god established and the Sabbath isnt marked by the sun beyond the fact a day is and that’s the only solar measure in gods calender the vernal equinox isa pharisee invention because of the diaspora. but has no room in the actual calender .

[emil]

The original OT writings were applicable to and understood by a people in a very small geographic area. The word of God is not static though its truth is permanent. As human understanding grows, the word of God is better understood. As the diaspora spread throughout the world, the word of God has to be understood in the context of that spread as well. The only way you can keep the Sabbath in absolute terms is by agreeing to keep it during the exact same time it is kept in the Israel of old. Nobody ever does that.

I am not sure why you say that God established a sacred calendar that was lunar. Didn't he create the sun to mark out day and night? I am not saying you are wrong, but just trying to understand where in the bible I can find information about the sacred calendar that you speak of.

Going purely by the lunar calendar observed by the Jews of the time, the dates would keep shifting drastically with reference to the astronomically more accurate time we now keep. As God gives us the wisdom of awareness of the location and movement of the heavenly bodies he created to help us keep time, he expects us to use the wisdom wisely and not be stuck in the darkness of ignorance. If we go by the interpretation of the OT in those days, we would have to reject a lot of things that God allowed humans to discover much later.

[Simon]

The sun is for days only months by the new moon the year by ripe barley

[emil]

^ May I have the verses please? I am looking for the last one in particular.

[Simon]

Exodus 12:2 God establishes the first month of his calender

Exodus 34:18 calls it the month of abib

abib means ripened barley

[emil]

Thank you. I will read those passages.

[Simon]

And i realised the sun also measures hours sun rise to sun set is broken into twelve hours and as god refers to hours. in such a way they qualify as god made not man made

[emil]

So also we must realize that God mage the Earth revolve round the Sun giving us the measure of 1 year. Using the ripening of barley is perfectly fine for a culture that grows barley and has no other sound measure of a solar year. God revealed measures appropriate to their knowledge.

Taking only lunar months gave rise to such things as 360 day years with a 390 day year thrown in from time to time for correction.

The bible also has references to the earth being flat but we know it is not the absolute truth. However, taking a small parcel of Earth of the size of Israel, that approximation was indeed valid. We also know with certainty that the days of creation were not the days we know today. God's word unfolds as human knowledge grows.

[Simon]

Barely wasn’t because they couldn’t measure a solar year people did that well before Moses time

[Simon]

And if you used ripened barley and new moons the calender stays in synch precalculated years only exist because the diaspora required it not because it was necessary in general jews just cling to it today out of pharisaic tradition

[emil]

How did they syncronize in consecutive years of famine and no rain? Again this is not a challenge but genuinely trying to clear up my ignorance about those matters.

And I am not clear what they are clinging to now; the barley ripening or the solar year.

[Simon]

They probably couldn’t. but Considering. deuteronomy 28 probably wasn’t much of an issue except when they were disobedient anyway. and thus the calender wasn’t really being observed anyway

[emil]

Simon wrote:

And if you used ripened barley and new moons the calender stays in synch precalculated years only exist because the diaspora required it not because it was necessary in general jews just cling to it today out of pharisaic tradition

What is "it"?

[Simon]

Hillels precalculated calender

[fromtheotherside]

Sarah2013 wrote:

WMS brother wrote:

Disagreeing with us does not vindicate sunday worship or Christmas worship or the blatantly man-decreed "new day" of easter. Which in and of itself, is also a pagan holy day. Especially that whole painting eggs part and worshipping a bunny. That was exactly the ritual used to promote fetility from the Goddess.

Disagreeing with us should not be an excuse to ignore all other facts in Christ.

This forum tries to say that we are wrong about everything ever, and never have any truthful or insightful teachings. No matter how much we present evidence to our logic.

It plainly shows this forum's Bias, it plainly shows an unwillingness to learn.

It plainly shows that no matter how faithfully we argue our own cause, you do not want our freedom of religion to be repected.

You do not want us to be happy abstaining form Christmas, you want to hold the love of our families hostage in arguments about how we are wrong. Do you think we don't already know this? That we don't regret having to choose between the will of God and Pagan holy days?

Yet it is written:

Luke 14:26

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple."

Because it becomes obvious that there do exist some situations where maybe you have to pick between God and physical family.

Here is how Wmscog fools its followers. It's very simple: They do a few research, grab a few things from the bible, then start blending with the Bible. They create a distraction  (the Catholic Church), while its listeners are completely blinded by that distraction to the real truth…. (Many will come in my name saying I am the christ) But the biggest mistake made by your organization is the idea of bringing in Ahang and Zhang, which by the way is a very common act in Korea. Does it not seem odd to you that your god, Ahang left behind children? Why would God want to mate with earthly beings. That in itself is dellusional. Did he not create us. Angels and humans are not suppose to mate. It has happened and God did not like it. He God will do no such thing either. Second, Your mother god, is a divorced woman, why? Why would God divorce or even marry on earth? You know why? It is because your organization has placed God in a box and do not truly know who God is. No match for us at all. But accoreding to your doctrine, he is just like man – and please don't quote that "made in image and likeness" scripture because you guys explain it 100% wrong. 

 

Then why don't you go ahead and explain it 100% correct for us, instead of just saying it's wrong.  That's very cowardly, explain it.

[Sarah2013]

Ok, Ftos: We are not little gods roaming around earth, I’m not implying that is anyone’s belief here either. Man is spirit. God is Sprit. Animals are bound to the soulish and physical realm alone. when dead they are dead. Human beings are spirits possessing a soul that lives in a physical body. Image and likeness doesn’t mean that God has a wife who is giving birth to kids physically or has a wife for that matter. We are more spirit like God, than physical, but we are not gods. For all I know, image and likeness when it comes to God, whom we cannot see, is not the same as earthly parents whom we can see based on what I’ve said above. In the image of God created He male and female (paraphrased). He didnt say that when he created animals even though they reproduce. The spirit realm (unseen) from the physical, is not the same as the physical realm (seen) where we are now.