- Topic
There has been a bit of a debate regarding the celebration of Christmas and it's origin. I have read many post regarding this celebration and it's origin. So now, here is my question, if Christmas is a pagan celebration or the like as some claim, then does that make the worship of a proven false god(s) ok? Here is why that particular debate holds no water compared to wmscog's doctrine and claim:
1. Christmas is a pagan holiday
2. Sunday is sun-god worship
3. Zahng Gil Jah is god – mother god. who is the bride of God, which makes her a second god aside from God himself. There are no real scripture supporting this idea or belief either except the one given as support by Wmscog Gal. 4:26, of which, by the way, is incorrect.
4. Ahnsanghong is the Holy Spirit/God. He left behind earthly children and his tombstone makes reference to that. He came from unbelieving parents originally. So God almighty, of all he could have chosen to be born into, he chose that which he is against. His books and the teaching of Wmscog have so many inconsistencies and descrepancies – the teaching of Wmscog and the teaching of Ahng are not in accordance.
5. Zahng Gil Jah, by the way does not move about the country. When was the last time she came to United States to spread the gospel of her son or her husband. Is she the bride of her husband or son.
6. Jesus only made mention of a father and not a mother.
Confusion! Confusion! Confusion! How can Christmas or sunday worship be bigger than the above?
I say that to say in very simple and plain English, If you want to keep at Christmas being a pagan holiday then for crying out loud. Keep your hands clean from sin. All of the above raises eyebrows but tell me, which do you think is really a problem, Christmas? Sunday worship? You got to be kidding me. If this is what Wmscog wants to hold onto, then you sincerely do not understand the God of the universe. To mimic him falsely is a serious sin.
^Sorry I'm lost. What same thing? In this particular case he says I am worshiping a pagan god because I celebrate the birth of Jesus on some arbitrary day. How is that the same as worshiping a mother god?
You both accuse of worshipping false gods
OK great. Stating the obvious. So your comment adds value to the discussion? How?
Can you offer your opinion on the matter? Who do you think is worshiping the false god? Or you prefer to sit on the fence and stay balanced on it?
Because what you said was incorrect and i was pointing that out
^ This one?
emil wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
And what point have you all already made. Your point is "I want to celebrate christmas because I want to, and it's okay because I'm doing it for God" that is the most wacked out point. Just because you do something for God does not mean He will, or has to accept it or even agree on it. That's the problem with you people. You believe in God on your own terms and conditions and your own rules.
Much better than believing in the wrong god or goddess.
So according to you, my celebrating the birthday of Jesus on December 25 is not better than him believing or worshiping a false god? If that is not what you mean, you'll have to elaborate. This back and forth is not very readable for anyone here. Because of your one-liners we just go on and on.
You said its better to worship god on your own terms and not Gods rather than worshipping. a false god which means it is better to worshipp a false god than to worship a false god
Did you look at the terms he specified and the context with regard to this thread? The context was celebrating Christmas. His point was that celebrating Christmas was pagan worship. So do you agree with him that celebrating Christmas is worshiping a false god?
That isn't relevent
KF wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
"Salvation is through grace, our actions or will is not what saves us" Paul also spoke about the potter and his clay pots. Meaning it's not us that chooses to have salvation but it is we who are choosen. That means we can't gain salvation or become a pot for noble purposes through our will and effort. It is the grace of God. That doesn't not mean I can worship God how ever I want to because I just have to believe.
huh? is the church changing their doctrine, my friend told me that faith without action is dead, therefore hindering my salvation, and I told him what you just wrote above: salvation is through grace ,not by works, it is a gift from God. The reason Jesus died on the cross.
This just shows that you don't know anything about our church or doctrine. Just by understanding "you need to keep the Passover" and nothing more shows you probably didn't attend for long or didn't study much.
PO is a feast, but it's nothing without God. There is no special power hidden in the wine or the bread. It's the word of God that holds power. God created the world in 6 days, just through his words. Adam and Eve came to die, not because they ate a stupid fruit. You think the fruit was poisened? It's because God commanded them not too. His words! He said this bread is my flesh, so it is his flesh. He said it's for the forgiveness of sins, so it's for the forgiveness of sins. God's promise and his grace that saves us, not the fact that we kept the PO but because God promised and his words, if you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will have eternal life, if he never said those words than PO would be point less.
emil wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
And what point have you all already made. Your point is "I want to celebrate christmas because I want to, and it's okay because I'm doing it for God" that is the most wacked out point. Just because you do something for God does not mean He will, or has to accept it or even agree on it. That's the problem with you people. You believe in God on your own terms and conditions and your own rules.
Much better than believing in the wrong god or goddess.
Your statment makes you no better than Cain. You have the same mentality, which shows it's pointless to talk to you. God gives salvation on his terms and his conditions, if you turn it the other way around, then your making God worship you.
Simon wrote:
Its pretty much the same
I understand that you mean his allegation that I am worshiping a false god by celebrating Christmas on Dec 25th is pretty much the same as my allegation that he is worshiping the wrong god. Do you still stand by that?
What was the relevance of your comment? What value did it add to the discussion? Or have I misunderstood you?
fromtheotherside wrote:
emil wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
And what point have you all already made. Your point is "I want to celebrate christmas because I want to, and it's okay because I'm doing it for God" that is the most wacked out point. Just because you do something for God does not mean He will, or has to accept it or even agree on it. That's the problem with you people. You believe in God on your own terms and conditions and your own rules.
Much better than believing in the wrong god or goddess.
Your statment makes you no better than Cain. You have the same mentality, which shows it's pointless to talk to you. God gives salvation on his terms and his conditions, if you turn it the other way around, then your making God worship you.
Again statements without basis. The context of my statement is that my celebration of the brith of Jesus does not imply worshiping someone other than Jesus, while you guys are clearly worshiping someone not supported in scripture.
Scripture does not have to tell us the date of Christmas. It is not history. But scripture does tell us about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It does tell us about the birth of Jesus.
It does not say a word about worshiping ASH or ZGJ. There is absolutely no salvation in worshiping the false messiahs which the bible has warned against.
fromtheotherside wrote:
This just shows that you don't know anything about our church or doctrine. Just by understanding "you need to keep the Passover" and nothing more shows you probably didn't attend for long or didn't study much.
PO is a feast, but it's nothing without God. There is no special power hidden in the wine or the bread. It's the word of God that holds power. God created the world in 6 days, just through his words. Adam and Eve came to die, not because they ate a stupid fruit. You think the fruit was poisened? It's because God commanded them not too. His words! He said this bread is my flesh, so it is his flesh. He said it's for the forgiveness of sins, so it's for the forgiveness of sins. God's promise and his grace that saves us, not the fact that we kept the PO but because God promised and his words, if you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will have eternal life, if he never said those words than PO would be point less.
Who's flesh? Jesus right? Not ASH and ZGJ? Open your eyes.
emil wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
emil wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
And what point have you all already made. Your point is "I want to celebrate christmas because I want to, and it's okay because I'm doing it for God" that is the most wacked out point. Just because you do something for God does not mean He will, or has to accept it or even agree on it. That's the problem with you people. You believe in God on your own terms and conditions and your own rules.
Much better than believing in the wrong god or goddess.
Your statment makes you no better than Cain. You have the same mentality, which shows it's pointless to talk to you. God gives salvation on his terms and his conditions, if you turn it the other way around, then your making God worship you.
Again statements without basis. The context of my statement is that my celebration of the brith of Jesus does not imply worshiping someone other than Jesus, while you guys are clearly worshiping someone not supported in scripture.
Scripture does not have to tell us the date of Christmas. It is not history. But scripture does tell us about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It does tell us about the birth of Jesus.
It does not say a word about worshiping ASH or ZGJ. There is absolutely no salvation in worshiping the false messiahs which the bible has warned against.
Your statement clearly backs my statements. Open your eyes.
You admit you are just like cain, you worship God which ever way you please, not what pleases God. Open your eyes.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Your statement clearly backs my statements. Open your eyes.
How? Because you say so? Explain if you can.
fromtheotherside wrote:
You admit you are just like cain, you worship God which ever way you please, not what pleases God. Open your eyes.
explain how.
Sarah2013 wrote:
Why not relevant, Simon?
because it has nothing to do with what he claimed only the veracity of what he claimed
emil wrote:
Simon wrote:
Its pretty much the same
I understand that you mean his allegation that I am worshiping a false god by celebrating Christmas on Dec 25th is pretty much the same as my allegation that he is worshiping the wrong god. Do you still stand by that?
What was the relevance of your comment? What value did it add to the discussion? Or have I misunderstood you?
The fact you said it is better to worship a false God than to worship a false God is patently false
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