- Topic
I've seen comments about this scattered throughout the forum before, but I'd like to gather the information together. It will help with something I'm working on.
Whether you experienced it as a member or saw it in your loved one who is/was a member…
1. On major holidays (such as Christmas, Thanksgiving, Halloween, etc.) did your wmscog congregation get together for an alternative gathering? (Like how many churches offer a "Harvest Festival" on Halloween night.)
2. Which holidays did they do this for?
3. Was it advertised as a community event, or just for members?
4. What was the event like? (organized, relaxed, potluck, fellowship, preaching…)
5. Which holidays (if any) were you (or your loved one) willing to celebrate with your family in the regular way.
Thank you so much for sharing!
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By the way, here's my own answer…
My sister and I live far apart and mostly talk on the phone, so I do not have opportunity to see what she does on particular holidays or if there are any alternate holiday arrangements.
I do know that she sometimes visited for Thanksgiving dinner, and she joined the family when we all came to the same town to be together for Christmas. However, we never have our family Christmas gathering on Dec. 25. It's always early, and though she would eat, she would not exchange presents with us or wish us Merry Christmas. She was just there to visit. Since I never see her on Dec. 25, I don't know what she does that day.
She has always been willing to wish us Happy New Year or Happy Birthday.
Hi genny…
When we were in WMS, the had, “Family dinners on Xmas and Thanksgiving, and a Gamenight on Halloween. I found it funny that we did this. When we got a Korean overseer, he would always say, “True Family will participate”. This was one of my first awakening moments to let me see they would use brainwashing. One xmas, we used lights on a tree outside the church. I forgot how the Overseer/Head Office justified it…but I remember it. Our first year in, we actually went by my cousins house on xmas. We tried to not say, “Merry Xmas” or, “Godbless you”. I remember deep down wishing I could keep xmas
My son hasn't been home for a holiday visit in 7 years. It was funny, the first few years he was a member, he wasn't even allowed to celebrate Thanksgiving. I told him Thanksgiving was always considered a celebration of the harvest, and family and friends time, not a religious holiday. Well, he just couldn't do that anyway because it was a man made holiday. (Funny he gets upset if no one remembers his birthday or celebrates that, though.) Then a couple years later, his wife was fixing a turkey on Thanksgiving Day. I think they just didn't call it Thanksgiving, but it was a turkey on Thanksgiving day. Of course, Christmas has always been out. Basically any time when people have to get together with non member friends or family, that is not allowed. But then I was told by a member how extremely important family is! They just don't see how the words and actions don't match.
My son absolutely loved Christmas and holidays together with family. We still go on with our very happy holiday celebrations and our lives. We are all together enjoying each other's company. Very fun now with the grandkids! He misses out, and I feel sorry for him for that. But he would certainly be welcome here, as we have told him. Making that known to him is all we can do. He can make it happen or not.
Mountain moms, did you say their words and actions don’t match? So there is a disconnect between the two? Ain’t that the truth. Let me not get things off topic. So back to holidays…
Agreed with everything untouchableJ wrote.
Worldly holidays were family day or game nights.
Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years they stressed how we should spend it at zion with our spiritual family but to also invite our Physical family as well. A lot of members would invite non members and we would have activities, dinner, and prayer together. They were pretty much normal days and everyone acted super "normal" and "worldy", I'm guessing so it wouldn't cause any concern for family that were invited. People said Happy Thanksgiving.
All the holiday events were well organized, potluck type, and there was no preaching or studying.
Like I said, they made it seem really normal on those days and they stressed family and being one big happy family.
Xmas is a big one where you were allowed to see your family during the day but they warned us that saying Merry Christmas or exchanging gifts was of Satan,
Well the cult is always trying to seperate the members from their family and friends and as mentioned above the cult will always have sort of activity on major holidays as means of gaining more control over the memebers lives.
I remember the one year the members would go hiking because for us down south X-mas is more of summer holiday than it is a winter one so the mood is usually very festive and cheerful. And a hike was not a bad idea. On some years/ holidays they'll have picnics and what not anything that will make sure that the members are further isolated form loved ones. On the event that they were unable to stop memebers from attending Christmas gatherings they would remind the members not to say Merry X-mas that also is mind control at its best.
The irony is if you think about it deeply they themselves are in actual fact celebrating the day by having some sort of activity with the "true family" because most folks don't actaully care about the birth of Christ but rather enjoy the day [X-mas or halloween or whaterver day] with loved ones. I can remember the one year when ash's birthday actually fell on the 25 Dec and jkc said that god was forcing the world to celbrate ash's birthday. By that same logic we can then also say that they themselves are actually celebrating every other holiday by having an activity parallel to what mainstream folks are doing. If only the members could see past the deception.
Knowing the cult they're probably still pulling the wool over the members eyes by convincing them that anything not sanctioned by the cult is evil.
I remember when ASH bday fell on Xmas as well. The zion we were in actually lit a tree out front. General Assembly justified it somehow. But indeed, WMS actually celebrates the holiday without knowing it. And as far as “made up holidays” go, “fathers coming day” is as made up and pagan as it gets.
One of my dearest family members is a current member for a couple months now and it’s getting worse and worse but fast. She’s a young person and for Holidays, they do gatherings and can invite family members. For Christmas Eve, they had church (not sure what they did) and one of the sisters had a planned sleep over. My family member didn’t attend however. Today, for Christmas, they had some form of a show, like a Gospel talent show and she invited me but I didn’t go and she was/is a church all day. They can celebrate Mother’s day and birthdays, I’m not sure how thanksgiving went; they had a get together at lunch but in that week a couple of them took a trip to another state for a convention. My family member didn’t go.
@hurt. Understand, these, “Family Events” are a tactic to prevent members from getting with their family and getting enough strength to leave the WMS. I was a member for 4 1/12 years. We would have, “Family dinner” on Xmas and Thanksgiving. The overseer would use leading/brainwashing statements such as, “Are we really family, if we arent in Zion?” and “Doesnt true family eat together?”. I always felt uneasy about these type of statements. As I stated in your post in the other forum, just be there…be available for your loved one, and study scripture, and history (especially WMS history). When they try to preach to you, drop the seeds of truth to him or her with facts. If you need anythin, PM.
UntouchableJ wrote:
I remember when ASH bday fell on Xmas as well. The zion we were in actually lit a tree out front. General Assembly justified it somehow. But indeed, WMS actually celebrates the holiday without knowing it. And as far as "made up holidays" go, "fathers coming day" is as made up and pagan as it gets.
what year was this? I remember their "father's coming day" landing on Xmas ( oh so conveniently), but the tree out front did not happen at my zion. When I read your comment, I nearly spit my drink all over the table lol.
I know they do this to separate the members from their families more. I pointed out that they did the events on purpose and she denied it, either because she truly believes they didnt or to defend them. They are hypocrites and it’s just conflicting because you love you loved one and know they are blind but at the same time they are CHOOSING to be so…
Here are some obscure things I remember on this topic.
New year's eve: It was a third day worship. But after the worhip, there was a mandatory team leader's meeting which lasted an hour. Every one who was not a team leader still had to stay because they were going to have course cl*** after the meeting ( this would go to take another hour). The reason they did this was ofcourse to prevent everyone from partying on that night. But there is more……
New year's day: A morning worship was mandated by the general assembly to comemorate mother being revealed or something like that ( I don't remember exactly why, just that there was a surprise worship). Obviously this was an ostentatious measure to further deter any enjoyment of life on new year's eve.
Halloween: During the month of october, there were consistent diatribes ,about how wicked the world was for " glorifiying demons", inculcated into the sermons. On the actual day however, the primary measure taken was a bonding time with dinner and games; mainly aimed at the highschool students and younger.
Thanksgiving: ( this is where it gets laughably obvious if it isn't already) At the begining of november, they held a churchwide bible study that was in reality not really a bible study; but rather an unlettered powerpoint presentation about how thanksgiving was really a pagan holiday in disguise. They used a bunch of psuedohistory as evidence. They concluded this with the statement of condemnation" worshiping false gods [celebrating thanksgiving] is a way to get your name blotted out of the book of life.
Christmas: Do I really need to say anything about this one? but yes there always was either a surprise worship or zion bonding day.
Superbowl: In the weeks leading up the big game, the overseer would insert lots of snide, bitchy comments in the sermon about how stupid and shallow americans are for placing so much value on a game. On game day there was suddenly lots of work that had to be done in zion(painting the rooms, clearing the plumbing, replacing carpets in certain rooms)
The point I want to make is this: For every holiday or festivity, they would make up any reason to impress upon the members that they had to be in zion on that day. It's fairly clear that the reason they do this is not because the said festivity has anything to do with religious worship or breaking the first commandment, but rather because if the member were to feel a bond with nonmembers through the festivity, then it raises the chance of them leaving the cult because they would miss the people they once knew, and the true love they felt outside of the cult.
I for one always found it rather unfair that they would always demonise all Western tradions and by default all tradions not of Korean origin eg, Christmas, Thanksgiving and so on but yet they never seemed to have problems with celebrating Korean holidays eg Parents Day in Korea and then later on in the month of May there was Heavenly Parents day and not to mention that good old Korean harvest festival called Chuseok, the Korean New Year etc. I can vividly remember the stories in the Elohist magazine about how the Koreans were supposedly enjoying family time, with non cult members as I read it, during these national holidays and they spoke with a great deal of pride about their heritage.
That has always been a red flag for me because there was always an insidious aura of, "the Koreans were here to enlighten the world" to any and all things. It felt kind of Nazi-ish and had undertones of imperial Japan before WWII. And for me the it was the Korean culture stood out as being one of the defining charactersitics of how the cult operates.
Never, not once have they explained why they use the lunar calendar, (derived from the Chinese calendar) to calculate ash's birth day and mama z's birthday as well as many other Korean and cult tradions. I mean if man made tradions were so evil in the eyses of God why were Korean tradions and culture exempt? I mean are we not all "heavenly sinners" according to their doctrine? Or perhaps is it all but the Koreans that are sinners?
Because "according the bible" God hates man made tradions [irrelevant bible verse here] but she likes and endorses Korean culture [bible verse here]
@Brian Oh man…You hit the nail on the head. And I would hate those snide comments;
“While Babylon watches Dumb sports on Sunday…we, the true family, clean Zion to Mothers glory…ISNT THAT RIGHT BROTHER AND SISTER!?” I used to cringe. Blatant brainwashing.
@Azula I felt the “Korean Master” vibe early. Our first overseer was a White man from Tennessee..but tried to have a Korean accent. Then when we got a Korean overseer, he would talk down to the members sooo bad. He would even make blatant remarks. Once he said that Koreans have more discipline, and would never leave after being in Zion for years, only Americans would stay for 5years then leave. Members would yell, “Amen”…I never agreed and thought that it was wrong. A member who left after many years, told me that there was a prophecy matching Koreans to the “Kings from the East”, and that they were royal and to be respected.
UntouchableJ wrote:
…a Korean overseer, he would talk down to the members sooo bad. He would even make blatant remarks. Once he said that Koreans have more discipline, and would never leave after being in Zion for years, only Americans would stay for 5years then leave. Members would yell, "Amen"…I never agreed and thought that it was wrong. A member who left after many years, told me that there was a prophecy matching Koreans to the "Kings from the East", and that they were royal and to be respected.
How about a prophecy that matches them to being monumental douchebags who also happen to be incredibly racist. This sort of teaching does sounds like the kind of teaching that the cult would teach to members with "strong faith" the ones who are so indoctrinated that they hardly question anything that comes from the "general assembly"
Azula wrote:
I for one always found it rather unfair that they would always demonise all Western tradions and by default all tradions not of Korean origin eg, Christmas, Thanksgiving and so on but yet they never seemed to have problems with celebrating Korean holidays eg Parents Day in Korea and then later on in the month of May there was Heavenly Parents day and not to mention that good old Korean harvest festival called Chuseok, the Korean New Year etc. I can vividly remember the stories in the Elohist magazine about how the Koreans were supposedly enjoying family time, with non cult members as I read it, during these national holidays and they spoke with a great deal of pride about their heritage.
Very true. It did seem like they were constantly laying a foundationfor Korean nationalism/supremacy. They were constatly trying to impress upon us that Korea was, in every way, greater then the united states. I remember at one point they made us celebrate Korean independance day. I find this all so ironic because if it weren't for us "vulgar, arrogant americans", Korea woul be nothing more then a slave colony belonging to Japan…………..kinda makes yah think doesnt it….
As former members, I can see it disturbed you that they conveyed this Korean Supremecy, but was this cause while having doubts or was one of the reasons to doubt?
Also, did that mean that the wms conveyed Koreans as the chosen people? They agree, at least through my experience, that the Jews were the chosen people. But when I asked what it meant or if it made them special, a member responded no. Yet, when they claim they are a chosen person, they say they are protected and their actions are righteous. Also, why did you believe in a God according to them, that would have chosen people and punish others just for not doing things his way? This has always confused and angered me. Personally, the bible contradicts itself and says God is benelovent. Yet, also says he’s a “jealous God” which members like to use against “false churches”. And because of this, if you don’t follow the commandments and so fortg you won’t be saved and blah blah blah. I don’t even think people act like this, so why would a benelovent God? It just makes me believe that those who follow, FEAR more than love thier God…. Also, going back to the Korean Independence Day, yeah, my family member basically implied that as long as a Holiday isn’t religious, even if it’s man made, you can celebrate it. All I know is that their wms celebrates mother’s Day and cherry picks holidays like the do verses…
Hurt wrote:
As former members, I can see it disturbed you that they conveyed this Korean Supremecy, but was this cause while having doubts or was one of the reasons to doubt?
Honestly both. Because to maintain the stance that one race is superior to another is actually the definition of racism.
Also, did that mean that the wms conveyed Koreans as the chosen people? This is the whole paradox about this goup. Yes,they did convey that through their actions, attitudes and organisational structure. The thing is, they would never, in a sermon or otherwise, say in a single sentence "koreans are the chosen people".
They agree, at least through my experience, that the Jews were the chosen people. But when I asked what it meant or if it made them special, a member responded no. Yet, when they claim they are a chosen person, they say they are protected and their actions are righteous. Also, why did you believe in a God according to them, that would have chosen people and punish others just for not doing things his way? This has always confused and angered me. Personally, the bible contradicts itself and says God is benelovent. Yet, also says he's a "jealous God" which members like to use against "false churches". And because of this, if you don't follow the commandments and so fortg you won't be saved and blah blah blah. I don't even think people act like this, so why would a benelovent God? It just makes me believe that those who follow, FEAR more than love thier God…. Also, going back to the Korean Independence Day, yeah, my family member basically implied that as long as a Holiday isn't religious, even if it's man made, you can celebrate it. All I know is that their wms celebrates mother's Day and cherry picks holidays like the do verses…
And I completely agree with the contradiction that you explain above. It is a contradiction to in one verse say "god is love" but then display a petty human emotion in another verse by saying " he is a jealous god" ( not to mention being a homicidal maniac in the OT) This is one of the many reasons I am an atheist. But I must say yet again, it is not my purpose to propagate atheism.Just giving my opinion.
You are also correct in asserting that they follow because of fear. I spoke with someone who is now a former member the phone a few weeks ago and she told me that she wanted to leave because she was being mistreated by her handlers but the reason she did not is because she was afraid of going to hell. This is where the old proverb "knowledge is power" becomes true. As untouchablej said on another thread, the more you objectively study biblical history and world theology, the more you will be able to identify glaring contradictions in their teachings. It is for this reason that they expound a true fear and hatred of educated people saying that they are like the pharisees who rejected jesus 2000 years ago.
Nice input Brian, yes, I learned about Pharisees actually in the video the wms recently made in response to thia website. A Pharisee is a religious leader, who they seem to have plenty of!! Regular members hold powerpoints and seminars and studies and dispute other churches, yet people who never claim to be religious leaders, who speak out against this group, or their teachings specifically, are the Pharisees? And yet, another contradiction is that they say do not to “eat from the tree of knowledge” but carry aroubd their own history book to prove the prophecies in the bibles are correct…
@Hurt…How come its the internet, “Tree of Knowledge of G&E” when it comes to info against their church. But, when they make websites, and Youtube vids, and use it to counteract true info, its OK? That puzzles me.
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