[MountainMom]

There was a segment on the Today Show exposing the Wms and how they tear families apart. If you missed it you can go to their website and watch it, I believe.  It was posted on Facebook as well. 

No wonder they have a big PR campaign going at this time to counter this claim.  Like Momsix said, they are trying to change some things.  Well I see that as exactly what it is, an attempt to establish plausible deniability.  They actually let some of their members go home for Christmas this year.  My son hasn't been home for Christmas for SEVEN years!

[fedupmom]

[fedupmom]

@JohnFoutraged- I understand what you are saying regarding “if she wishes to, she should be allowed to live this way”, however, it is quite debatable that it is a “choice”. Although I cannot condone the alleged “locking in a room”, I can understand the desperation in such an act! Witnessing the changes in a child’s life once becoming a member of this group… is a parent’s nightmare!

[UntouchableJ]

No person should lock their loved one in a room. But also, no religious figure should condone ostracizing loved ones. The WMS justifies this by two scriptures. In Exodus when it says, “Honor thy Mother and Father”, they claim that means Zhang and ASH. When Jesus said; “And your enemies will be those of your household; …”. As for the second scripture, yes, that may be so. But, if that isnt the case, why do so many members not reach out to their families?

[MountainMom]

@John F:  Don't put too much faith in claims that parents locked their sons/daughters in rooms.  That is illegal for one thing, and the church would make darn sure the parents were prosecuted if that actually happened.   I have heard of the church members having their "recruit" to go to court against their own parents for a lot lesser things, so I doubt they would let this type of thing slide. 

  However, they use it as a scare tactic.  And the leaders use it to justify not "letting" kids go home. 

[MountainMom]

fedupmom wrote:

@JohnFoutraged- I understand what you are saying regarding "if she wishes to, she should be allowed to live this way", however, it is quite debatable that it is a "choice". Although I cannot condone the alleged "locking in a room", I can understand the desperation in such an act! Witnessing the changes in a child's life once becoming a member of this group… is a parent's nightmare!

 I'm with you fedupmom:  I believe Rebecca thinks it's her choice, but I don't for a minute think she wasn't controlled into doing pretty much everything she has done over the past 9 years.  I don't blame her or judge her for this, I blame the controlling nature of the leaders of the cult.  She is a victim.  I feel sorry for her.  How would you like to believe you had to marry someone just because "Mother" says so?  Obviously, they should add this to an honest recruiting session, "If you come to our church, we may tell you that you need to marry whomever we choose for you."  Lol!  How many of their victims would join then?  Deceptive recruiting is their hallmark. 

I love the today show clip.  If anyone watched it they would at least look into the allegations before joining.  That's all I really want to see happen.  If they know everything that could happen and still join, then I say go for it.  But the leaders know they would not join anything that sounds as all encompassing and controlling as what they really are.  There are lies told to get members.

[jw03550]

fedupmom wrote:

@JohnFoutraged- I understand what you are saying regarding "if she wishes to, she should be allowed to live this way", however, it is quite debatable that it is a "choice".

It is absolutely her choice.

But it is done in an environment heavily influenced in favor of the group.  Subtle difference but very material difference.

And what of the parents sitting in front of the camera saying the daughter should do this and do that….they are making up their minds for the daughter.  Mistake.  She is an adult.

Funny, over the course of my posting the alternative point of view, here, over the last several months – I used to get voice mail when I would put in a call to my friend in the group.  But the more I started trying to see through his eyes, being empathetic, [and getting ripped here by the way] the less it went to voice mail and the more he picks up right away.  I don't call often – just enough to say hi friend, just like my other college friends – normal stuff.

[MountainMom]

jw03550 wrote:

fedupmom wrote:

@JohnFoutraged- I understand what you are saying regarding "if she wishes to, she should be allowed to live this way", however, it is quite debatable that it is a "choice".

It is absolutely her choice.

But it is done in an environment heavily influenced in favor of the group.  Subtle difference but very material difference.

And what of the parents sitting in front of the camera saying the daughter should do this and do that….they are making up their minds for the daughter.  Mistake.  She is an adult.

Funny, over the course of my posting the alternative point of view, here, over the last several months – I used to get voice mail when I would put in a call to my friend in the group.  But the more I started trying to see through his eyes, being empathetic, [and getting ripped here by the way] the less it went to voice mail and the more he picks up right away.  I don't call often – just enough to say hi friend, just like my other college friends – normal stuff.

 How is that going for ya?  Is your friend out?   Or are you getting the same run around we are?    Are you being patronized so that your friend can use you for their recent PR campaign to try to portray they don't harm relationships of all kinds?  How do you know the real reason he is now talking more, even though it appears it isn't really much. 

[LambofGod]

@jw that's true.  Opinions and choices are a freedom that everyone should have.  Your opinions are yours.  I wouldn't rip you for being emphathetic.  I was for several years with my family.  WMSCOG isnt the only belief system that has these issues.  I'm sure we all know that.  However for me…it's done nothing but control my family and their thoughts.  Every choice (big or small) is dictated by the organization.  So that is why I am where I'm at.  I see your point when you say "she is an adult".   Everyone has their own struggle with this place.  Some severe some not so.  Heck some walked away from it with no scars at all.  A couple people I preached to and converted walked away just fine.  Some people dont' "drink the coolaid" so to speak. 

[MountainMom]

LambofGod wrote:

@jw that's true.  Opinions and choices are a freedom that everyone should have.  Your opinions are yours.  I wouldn't rip you for being emphathetic.  I was for several years with my family.  WMSCOG isnt the only belief system that has these issues.  I'm sure we all know that.  However for me…it's done nothing but control my family and their thoughts.  Every choice (big or small) is dictated by the organization.  So that is why I am where I'm at.  I see your point when you say "she is an adult".   Everyone has their own struggle with this place.  Some severe some not so.  Heck some walked away from it with no scars at all.  A couple people I preached to and converted walked away just fine.  Some people dont' "drink the coolaid" so to speak. 

 I am very happy for all the people who walked away without a scar!  That is good to hear that some have.  I really believe that most who did escape unscathed probably weren't in very long.  This site wouldn't even exist if that was the case with the majority.  The hard fact is, that isn't the case with the vast number of ex members.  It is a rarity. Even if they were only in a few months, there are lingering problems.  I listened to your struggle and I empathize with you greatly.  Your story is one of those where scars were left, I am sure. 

I am happy you are now out and I wish you well.  So does everyone else here. 

[MountainMom]

I just want to say again that no matter what, the today show segment did a great service to those who might  be approached by the cult.  All I wanted out of that segment was to have them throw up a red flag so that if people are approached, they are not fooled by deceptive recruiting practices. That segment did a GREAT job of that.   Most people who watched that would now do some research instead of going into it blindly. 

If they want to join after they have seen what it does and what it is (and the today show did a great job of revealing that) then more power to them. 

Prevention is key.  Avoid the mess because sometimes it is impossible to clean it up afterwards.   

[jw03550]

MountainMom wrote:

How do you know the real reason he is now talking more

I don't and it doesn't matter.

0% is nothing.  1% is something.

If you want to cut off your nose to spite your face, then go for it.  I'll take the 1%.

[LambofGod]

Your support MM is so awesome!  Thank you.

[jw03550]

LambofGod wrote:

Your support MM is so awesome!  Thank you.

She's martyred herself and at the cost of the relationship with her son by putting the entire blame on WMSCOG.  That's not something to be proud of.

[MountainMom]

LambofGod wrote:

Your support MM is so awesome!  Thank you.

 Thanks LambofGod!  Any time.

[Brian Taylor]

LambofGod wrote:

Your support MM is so awesome!  Thank you.

Yes, It really is, Thank you, and you should be very proud of everything you've contributed here! and the WMS deserves all the blame!

[David]

Brian Taylor wrote:

LambofGod wrote:

Your support MM is so awesome!  Thank you.

Yes, It really is, Thank you, and you should be very proud of everything you've contributed here! and the WMS deserves all the blame!

 Ditto, you are quite a Lady MM, xoxo! and yeah there's only one bad guy here!! Your a pretty good guy too, Mr. Taylor!

@jw3550, darn't i'm wrong again, I hate it when that happens!!! I have to stop looking for the good in people!

[LambofGod]

jw03550 wrote:

LambofGod wrote:

Your support MM is so awesome!  Thank you.

She's martyred herself and at the cost of the relationship with her son by putting the entire blame on WMSCOG.  That's not something to be proud of.

 Really?  "Martyred" requires one to die. I would also say that your quote to my statement is a d*ck thing to say.  You may or may not realize that.  Thought you should know though.  You should apologize.

[Brian Taylor]

LambofGod wrote:

jw03550 wrote:

LambofGod wrote:

Your support MM is so awesome!  Thank you.

She's martyred herself and at the cost of the relationship with her son by putting the entire blame on WMSCOG.  That's not something to be proud of.

 Really?  "Martyred" requires one to die. I would also say that your quote to my statement is a d*ck thing to say.  You may or may not realize that.  Thought you should know though.  You should apologize.

Thats all JW says, is d*ck things. there are more then a few people who want him to go away. 

[genny]

I don't want him to go away.  I find his perspective useful to hear.

[Brian Taylor]

genny wrote:

I don't want him to go away.  I find his perspective useful to hear.

Well, I just don't think that it's our fault that people remain in the wms for long periods of time. Nor are we the ones cementing their ideologies regarding ahn and zahng. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but if he is so convinced that we have got it all wrong and are only proponents of the problem why does he stay? why doesnt he go off somewhere and do what is needed to get his friend out? does he do that? no, he just insists on janky surveys and spews invective at all who disagree with him.

[MountainMom]

@Brian:  You are right.  It isn't our fault people were recruited and it isn't our fault they stayed in for long periods.  And I think we all have empathy for the people who are members at this time.  I know you do, Brian, even after all you have been through.   We know it could happen to anyone under the right circumstances.  It is, however, the fault of the leaders of the Wms, and I don't hesitate at all to put the blame squarely on their shoulders.  People suffer because of the Wms, and it's just a fact.  I won't minimize the damage that happens to members and/or their families and relationships.  That would be an insult to the people who have been devastated by the Wms.

@Genny:  You are the nicest and most patient person I know.  I always thought I was patient, but you have me beat by so far! 

@JW:  You should take a lesson from Genny.

@Everyone on here:  Thank you for all you contribute!  It helps so much.