- Topic
There was a segment on the Today Show exposing the Wms and how they tear families apart. If you missed it you can go to their website and watch it, I believe. It was posted on Facebook as well.
No wonder they have a big PR campaign going at this time to counter this claim. Like Momsix said, they are trying to change some things. Well I see that as exactly what it is, an attempt to establish plausible deniability. They actually let some of their members go home for Christmas this year. My son hasn't been home for Christmas for SEVEN years!
Same side indeed. After another back and forth debate with a member, he accused myself and Brian if being “paid” by Jassan and NCPCOG. This is what they are telling their members, Im sure of it now.
Brian Taylor wrote:
mayor and mike, you can do as you wish, but heinrich hochalter is right, lets not waste out time witht this guy.
But pay him no mind
See, you did learn how to control people while part of the group and you came away from the group with something after all…
That and black & white thinking.
And, that when you have made up your mind about something – that will be what it will be until you right-fight it to death.
You may be out, but you're not out.
jw03550 wrote:
omg NO.
so-called cults shun. they don't talk against father, now the spirit, so that they will burn for all of eternity. People "out" understand that while "in" this can be a reasoning for cutting off from family members that talk bad – we are "saving" them. Maybe I should have just said that to MM, idk.
I really do have a friend in, and to me a 1% chance is greater than zero so whatever that chance I want to give it to him. And that means that sometimes we do actually have to play by the rules of the group. Matthew 10:16 has more meaning than to justify lying, you know.
FFS
Well, the handlers at WMSCOG read every post, so I'm sure they are having fun with this. JW/Shimon/Simon plays a nice tune for them. Hard to be neutral with this dude, but he has a right to blow off, like everyone else, even Momma Zhang and Choo Choo Kim. Heck, we invite current members to share and participate, so I guess we maybe should think of JW/S/S in that catergory …. go ahead, JW/S/S, it's your turn!
I must say that on this page of this thread (page 5), JW is making some clearly thought out points with reasoning and logic.
For those responding, please consider your own reasoning and logic, and be careful of committing the ad hominem fallacy.
(Well, "this page" was page 5 when I posted. Now page 5 is the previous page. Sorry for the confusion.)
genny wrote:
I must say that on this page of this thread (page 5), JW is making some clearly thought out points with reasoning and logic.
For those responding, please consider your own reasoning and logic, and be careful of committing the ad hominem fallacy.
(Well, "this page" was page 5 when I posted. Now page 5 is the previous page. Sorry for the confusion.)
Ok, for the purpose of truthful introspection, I will confess to one thing. When it comes to discussing the WMS, in any capacity, I do sometimes have trouble separating emotions from thought. Sometimes, it is to a fault.
I do realize that the greatest existential threat to the WMS is a logical, finely put together arguement, not emotionally charged vitriol.
So, from this point onward, I am making a concious decision to educate myself regaurding cults ( STUDYIN ME SOME HASSONOLOGY) that way, I might be able to contribute knowledge and constructive ideas as opposed to insults and derision towards the group. 🙂
@Brian Man, I showed my wife some of the Interview with Missionary John “suit barely fits” Powers. She really needs to do a video. She shed some good light, as I was filling her in on my back and forth with members “Jimmyboy” and Gabriel Lin. First thing, is a TITLe holder who leaves is the most dangerous “Ex” members because you are given MORE love bombing, you see more special information etc. But she helped me understand after the members illogical responses to fact. Overseers will get calls to have regional meetings from the Pastors. They tell them of concerns, or make up lies. My wife was telling me that they have been, telling Overseers that Exmembers who are a threart are, “being paid by NCPCOG, or by Steve Hassan”. So, the Overseers tell the group leaders, group leqders tell team leaders and then they tell the regular members. Then, they word it to brainwash you; “Bredder en sister, becareful..these people get paid to slander our mother and father”. So when exmembers challenge them on YT channels, this forum etc, they have a brainwashed defense mechanism already built in. “My Overseer warned me about you!”. Its basic psychologicql warfare. If you were new at a job. And after a brief conversation I as your coworker say, “Hey, watch out for Brian. He steals things”.When you meet Brian, no matter how nice he is…your on defense. You may lock your purse or locker. Keep you wallet locked in your desk. Never considering that ol’ UntouchableJ lied. This is a powerful tool, and since members are brainwashed to thinking, “The internet is evil”, they won’t seek the answers, or evem inveetigate to prove exmembers stories.
UntouchableJ wrote:
@Brian Man, I showed my wife some of the Interview with Missionary John "suit barely fits" Powers. She really needs to do a video. She shed some good light, as I was filling her in on my back and forth with members "Jimmyboy" and Gabriel Lin. First thing, is a TITLe holder who leaves is the most dangerous "Ex" members because you are given MORE love bombing, you see more special information etc. But she helped me understand after the members illogical responses to fact. Overseers will get calls to have regional meetings from the Pastors. They tell them of concerns, or make up lies. My wife was telling me that they have been, telling Overseers that Exmembers who are a threart are, "being paid by NCPCOG, or by Steve Hassan". So, the Overseers tell the group leaders, group leqders tell team leaders and then they tell the regular members. Then, they word it to brainwash you; "Bredder en sister, becareful..these people get paid to slander our mother and father". So when exmembers challenge them on YT channels, this forum etc, they have a brainwashed defense mechanism already built in. "My Overseer warned me about you!". Its basic psychologicql warfare. If you were new at a job. And after a brief conversation I as your coworker say, "Hey, watch out for Brian. He steals things".When you meet Brian, no matter how nice he is…your on defense. You may lock your purse or locker. Keep you wallet locked in your desk. Never considering that ol' UntouchableJ lied. This is a powerful tool, and since members are brainwashed to thinking, "The internet is evil", they won't seek the answers, or evem inveetigate to prove exmembers stories.
Wow, the system of information downflow you are describing does, very much, seem like the modus operandi of the WMS. Some one I know on the inside told me that about six months ago, there was a very abrubt mandate for the overseers on the west coast to all meet in LA for emergency information meeting, I guess it makes sense now what the purpose was. As for as your wife making a video, if you want, I don't mind being the mouthpeice in this matter. I would be willing to make a video where I leave my opinion, spin or gravitas completely out of if and would only be saying exactly what you want me to say. I would just ask that you PM me a script or get on the phone to organize thoughts. Before I up load the video I would show it to you to via facebook or social media to get your final approval or to make any changes that you might want me to make, It's just an idea
I watched this video, a few times. I will say that Rebecca sure did act different off camera than she did on camera. However, there is a glimps of who I think she really was when she broke down and said she loves her parents but then straightens up right away and becomes stiff again as I am sure they are taught to do. I almost thought she was going to break and ask for help for one second!! She was horrible to her parents, her mother pleading for a hug..so so sad! Also telling them that they didn't travel that far to see her, that the earth and what they traveled are just a drop in a bucket compared to the universe! She sounded crazy nuts! But!….. I bet that if the wms traveled that far to do some doo doo clean up work, it would be a long long way and look at us clean up doo doo and would be brocasting how far they traveled to a public service. I have not seen my loved one in over 2 years…refuses to give an address to me. Used to have the best relationship and now they dont even care about us. Tell me that is normal for a child to completly desert their WHOLE FAMILY!! Im so sad!
Bumped
God bless you
UntouchableJ wrote:
@Brian Man, I showed my wife some of the Interview with Missionary John "suit barely fits" Powers…
LMAO!
Day made.
@Azula. The fact that they pay the fulltime Missionaries so little is amazing. I was told they potentially make less than 20k. Some of them have families(very few). Sometimes the deqacons were paid, but most times they weren’t….and they were STILL expected to be at the church in a fulltime capacity. “Bredder, en sister…how can we be cleansed if we arent in Zion?”. And with comments like that, I witnessed members spendnall their free time at church. When the Overseer noticed members werent coming to study, or comimg after work, they pull out the “Flee to Zion city of refuge” guilt trip sermon.
UntouchableJ wrote:
… they pay the fulltime Missionaries so little is amazing. I was told they potentially make less than 20k. Some of them have families(very few). Sometimes the deqacons were paid, but most times they weren't….
Usually the ones who are getting paid were the full time "gospel workers", Some do have families but in the cult we know that children are just sinners from heaven so the cult would rarely support those with kids because of that teaching. Amazing how they steal the joy out of family and all because the cult loves money.
I know that some full time "gospel workers" that aren't getting paid by the cult and are supported by their own families. And sometimes those families wouldn't even be in "jion" but would be expected to foot the bill for the cult member whos is so overwhelmed with guilt that they refuse to work for anyone but the cult. Lest they lose "blessings"-another trigger word.
Yet they are expeted to believe that the cult somehow cares for them? And the people who are actually supporting them financially are gonna burn in hell? This is truly narcissim on fleek.
@Azula They also get paid Once a month, which for a person living off of scraps, requires financial discipline. Im not sure if they get a travel stipend for going to the bigger branch church for their regional meetings, but Its evident they keep the Overseers and or Deacons, POOR. Gas to regional meetings, Dry-cleaning weekly, regular haircuts…these are small amenities, but they add up. When we switched to the mean Korean Overseer, the two Fulltime Deacons we had, had to find jobs. But like Azula said, they were still expected to be there alot. One of the Deacons and his wife, lived in the same small house the church owned and initially used as the daycare house for the kids. I couldnt imagine(!) living in a small house with another couple, let alone WMS members and an OVERSEER at that….no tv, no Movies/dvds..no music except New songs? I would have jumped off the church roof.
You know what is so ironic. My brother in law (husbands brother) is a Deacon in AZ. Went through a divorce married a young Korean woman (arranged marriage) needs a sponser for immigration visa..I don’t have the correct terminology…anyways he is struggling financially bc of divorce and now new marriage. He asked my husband for money. My husband gives it to him without asking me bc he knows I will say no!! I find it terrible that they get paid next to nothing and get put all these unrealistic expectations. Oh yeah its all in the name of God. Its such a mind f! Anyways fast forward and my mother in law needs money and my brother in law told her have you tried God?! Im like oh yeah like you did. Not! U asked my husband for it.
The fact that they arrange marriages and dont help financially is kind of messed up too. I cant believe couples live together in a room at church w no tv or music. What do they think will happen if they watch tv? Sounds like a prison to me.
They are allowed to watch tv. Its totally okay, as long as it’s a video created at head office South Korea, or a CD.
Yea but who wants to watch that lol. So no Game of Thrones:)?? Seriously the amount of control is unreal!!!
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