- Topic
Take a look at Deuteronomy Chapter 22 verses 13-30.
Of particular interest is verses 20-21:
20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.
It is obvious from this that a girl was expected to remain a virgin until her marriage.
I never said they dont view premarital sex a sin I said they don’t view premarital by YOUR definition a sin
So far as koreans: we had none in our church but we still went to denver on feasts and pastor park came up a couple times
Simon wrote:
I never said they dont view premarital sex a sin I said they don't view premarital by YOUR definition a sin
I'm sorry I'm lost. Can you please elaborate? What is MY definition? How is it different from yours/the Jews? Does the difference stem from a variation in definition of marriage itself. Are we splitting hairs here?
In fact, the passage from Deut which I have referenced, dovetails well with the Joseph and Mary incident I pointed to earlier. So again, I don't know what you mean.
You defined marriage by a piece of paper they don’t
Simon wrote:
You defined marriage by a piece of paper they don't
A piece of paper is the present day definition of marriage in so-called civil society. I don't say that it should have been a piece of paper in their time and place.
What I'm saying is that pre-marital sex seems to be sexual immorality regardless of MY context. The context should be of the two people involved in the act.
BTW who is "they"
Wmscog obviously
What is the wmscog definition of marriage?
By legal certificate or if Zahng considers you married. Both are accepted.
Yes, I have heard from a woman whose husband is in the church that the husband said,"You have spiritually divorced me already." He said this because she didn't want to go into the church and didn't want their kids there either. So where did he get that term, "spiritually divorced?" I think the church doesn't consider people married unless both of the people are in the church.
That’s not entirely true. At least the face of the WMSCOG doesn’t allow that. 1 Cor 7:12-14
I agree YoMamma. Not entirely, for sure. It would be really hard to justify divorce in scripture (although I have heard they have tried to do it when it suited them.) But I have heard the terms "spiritually married and spiritually divorced" several times now in reference to marriages and the wmscog. And in the case I was talking about in my last post was one of those times. Sad, but a lot of marriages go under due to the strain the church puts on it's members.
And you don’t see many of those people go public. You look up first hand testimonies of how the WMSCOG affected someone’s marriage you’ll find all positive stuff.
"Spiritual marriage" and "spiritual divorce" seem to be nice, decent sounding phrases to justify bigamy/adultery with the former and make way for the same with the latter.
@Simon – You have been side-stepping the issue of pre-marital sex being sexual immorality. The verse I gave you specifically is about a man who marries a woman (regardless of how you define marriage) and finds she has not been a virgin. The context (father's house) clearly shows it is about a woman who wasn't married before. You can spin it all you like and obfuscate the issue with marriage definitions but you cannot deny the fact that the bible says it is evil doing. Whether you consider evil and sin as synonymous in this case or not can be argued.
You said you wanted to stick to wmscog doctrine on the issue
Simon wrote:
You said you wanted to stick to wmscog doctrine on the issue
Nope. I listed the things that Sahnghong did that showed he couldn't be God. You took exception to my claiming that pre-marital sex is a sin.
See one example:
Simon wrote:
The notion of using Porneia to mean premarital sex is circular because Porneia doesn't mean premarital sex or unmarried sex or anything like that it means illicit (illegal) sexual activity and no where does the Bible refer to premaritals as illicit so you have to say its a sin because you think its a sin
The only place the Bible lists Porneia I can think of is Leviticus which never bans it
You said in multiple posts that pre-marital sex is not called a sin in scripture. I asked whether the wmscog called it a sin and Renita and Sarah2013 confirmed it. You next took this discussion to the definition of marriage.
Now I have shown you the error of your defense that pre-marital sex is not biblically a sin. Suddenly I find you have changed the goalposts.
Owned! Lol.
Premarital sex is sexual immortality. As apostle Paul describes in 1 Corinthian I think.. I says go ahead and marry so you won’t engage in sin.
I didn’t shift goal posts at all do not lie
YOU EMILIO said you’d rather discuss wmscog doctrine
SoI answered YOUR question if you don’t like their doctrine that isn’t my fault
The fact is premarital sex is DEFINED as sex when not married so how the hell can you pretend the definition of marriage isn’t pertinent
@Simon – could you point out where I said I'd rather discuss wmscog doctrine?
I already explained the sequence of the thread. I listed reasons why Sahnghong cannot be God. You came back saying pre-marital sex is not biblically defined as sin. It is then I asked whethwr wmscog defines it as sin or not. You then took the discussion on to the definition of marriage and we discussed what marriage was defined as by wmscog.
Our discussion started about pre-marital sex. The definition of marriage was only peripheral in trying to understand the main topic. WMSCOG's understanding of pre-marital sex was only to understand whether they walk the talk. In that context, their definition of marriage is important.
I gave you scripture to show that your original assertion that pre-marital sex is not sin is itself wrong.
Now you ask me a question and let me answer it. Is the definition of marriage pertinent?
No because it does not have to be a universally acceptable definition. I gave you Deut 22:13~
Regardless of any universal definition of marriage, it takes into account a marriage that is set in a particular time and place. What was marriage in that day and age may not be the same as what we have today or even what we have in different societies around the world.
Now let me hear you answer. Does scripture say pre-marital sex is sin or not according to Deut 22?
emil wrote:
Finally, for the purpose of the debate central to this thread, the important thing is whether the wmscog considers pre-marital sex a sin or not and that seems to have been firmly established here.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.