- Topic
The reason I say the real question is " Did He bring back the Passover?" is because the Passover is the true sign to recognize God in Spirit and God in the Flesh. All through out the Old testament and the New Testament. So if someone restored the Passover, correctly, according to the Bible's regulation, before Christ Ahnsahnghong, then they would be the christ.
I will make one thing very clear. Herbert Armstrong established the World Wide Church of God in the Early 20th century. That church claims they keep the Passover. If their Passover is correct, then Herbert Armstrong was the Christ. However, there are alot of inconsistencies w/prophecy from that church. First of all, they believe in sunset theory. According to the Sunset Set Doctrine, the Passover cant be kept because, the appointed time of the Passover is 1st month 14th day at twilight (when the sun goes down Deut 16:5)so since they believe that the day begins at sunset, to them, when the sun goes down is no longer 1st month 14th day at twilight, it becomes 1st month 15th day.
2nd thing is Herbert Armstrong didn't come from a country that is EAST of Patmos Island. According to Revelation 1:9, Apostle John was on Patmos Island when he wrote revelation. And when he saw Christ coming w/the Seal of God, he saw him coming from the East.(Revelation 7:1-3) So he saw Christ coming from a country that is east of Patmos Island. So the fact that Herbert Armstrong didnt come from the east, but from America, which is west, shows he is not the christ. And if he isnt the christ, that means the Passover he taught was wrong. It is the same with all these churches that claim they are the true church. If Jehovahs Witnesses are the true church then Charles Russell is the Christ. Follow him. If SDA is the true church, then Ellen G. White is the christ. Follow her.. etc.
Nobody can prove that Christ Ahnsahnghong didn't do what the Bible teaches "ONLY GOD CAN DO" there for he is the Christ.
I only ask one thing. Please come w/Biblical or tangable proof. And stick to the topic. You guys are very angry, its not even comical, it's sad. Are you trying to pick and point at WMSCOG or are you trying to prove Christ Ahnsahnghong isnt the 2nd coming Christ? This will end all discussion. someone PLEASE prove that Christ Ahnsahnghong didn't restore THE PASSOVER, CORRECTLY, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE'S REGULATION. If you prove that, then you prove WMSCOG is a false church following a false Christ. End of story.
KF "NO! The Real Question Is : Did mother god celebrate a Pagan holiday?"
Logical Fallacy: Shifting the Goalposts
Also I do not think what she said means what you think it means.
"Historically and according to popular belief, Chuseok originates from Gabae. Gabae started during the reign of the third king of the kingdom of Shilla (57 BC – AD 935), when it was a month-long weaving contest between two teams."
It is not a pagan-god celebration, it is a celebration where people are happy to have a good harvest.
There is some debate about older harvest festivals which were pagan, however this particular festival is not related to a pagan god, it is related to physical kingdoms having a competition and enjoying some good food.
There are older, separate festivals, which you are extremely confused about.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and your entire argument is garbage.
Smurf "FTOS you're so deep in your imaginary world, it's unreal."
Such a persuasive comment, and, might I add, so very humble and polite.
Simon
There are many pagan harvest festivals, but that does not make all harvest festivals pagan. Even Thanksgiving wouldn't be a pagan festival, if people didn't pray as if it was some holy day appointed by god for thanks. Protip: I eat thanksgiving food, I just ask for my plate to be served before anybody prays over it.
Indeed it is written: do not concern yourselves.
It is also written simply: do not eat food prayed to over idols
I can garauntee you that no WMSCOG member or even Heavenly mother prayed to any pagan gods over that food. Nor did anyone ever say that it was a Holy Day appointed by God. We also didn't commit any rituals for pagan blessings.
You are extremely confused.
renita.payno
What you call a Christmas Tree is actually a Yule Tree, and you are supposed to raise it to get blessings from norse gods. What you call a Wreath is actually a ritual-construction built to invite the life energy of nature into your home to give you a long life. What you call Mistletoe is in pagan custom hung so that people may find love under it as Freya cried atop mistletoe over her love for baldur.
In addition to many things, that is why it is a pagan holiday.
Eating a dinner meal on Christmas however is not pagan. In fact, even eating a dinner specifically prepared FOR Christmas isn't pagan; as long as you make sure nobody prays over your food or idolizes it before you are served.
You are confusing two entirely seperate Festivals, and the modes by which they honor pagan gods.
Sarah2013 "Restoring Passover highly does not qualify anyone to the level of deity."
We believe the restoration of Zion which includes the appearance of God calls for it. Implying both the restoration of Passover and the very real appearance of God whom does the restoring.
If thats not good enough for you, then too bad.
You should move on instead of attacking what we enjoy, before you are caught in over your head by all the slander that is posted here, piling up to heaven in excess.
Cephas' Brother
You are clearly confused about the meaning of Zion being destroyed and all of its implications as a "last-day" prophecy.
If you don't agree with it then you can mind your manners and leave us in peace.
Joshua "How can the Passover be "the real question?"
Because the one who rebuilds Zion in the last days is God and God alone. He himself will personally come and appear when he is rebuilding Zion.
"1) Would God spend time in a false religion … Would God join a religious group … contradic the Bible"
Logical Fallacy: Shifting the Goalposts
We are talking about the Passover, which was accomplished as described.
Your tangent was also Christian Denomination blessed by God to return the very first true commandment to mankind which is Sabbath; as we believe, which is also a sign of the immenint arrival of Christ as we believe it.
You are extremely confused and cannot stay on topic.
Disturbed "The beliefs of The WMS Church Of God"
Goalpost shifting of the highest order.
Save those questions for later if you can't be bothered to address the OP.
The Unknown
God bless you,
You will be buried under mountains of nonsensical analogies and goalpost shifting, I know several brothers that have come before you and they have all experienced the same results.
I pray that you spend more time enjoying your life, and doing good things, than humoring the trash presented here. I'm not sure what your hoping to accomplish, but I am posting to give you my warm regards, and let you know that you may regret posting here as a colossal waste of time.
WMSCOG teaches origin matters don't be hypocrites
and again the Bible says man can AND HAS restored passover
14400 wrote: Sarah2013 "Restoring Passover highly does not qualify anyone to the level of deity."
We believe the restoration of Zion which includes the appearance of God calls for it. Implying both the restoration of Passover and the very real appearance of God whom does the restoring.
If thats not good enough for you, then too bad.
You should move on instead of attacking what we enjoy, before you are caught in over your head by all the slander that is posted here, piling up to heaven in excess.
I'm sorry 144000, but until Jesus Christ tells me otherwise, I will continue to expose lies done against the bible. Jesus is God and not Ahang. Whatever Wmscog tries to do to those who are exposing all the inconsistencies and lies will fail because God cannot be mocked. We shall reap what we sow later than we sow. Everyday is for the thief and one day is for the owner. Mark my words. Galatians 6:7-9.
Sarah2013 wrote:
renita.payno wrote:
Sarah2013 wrote:
renita.payno wrote:
It's because of Jesus we have the NTPO.
If because of Jesus we have the NTPO then please explain to me why it needs restoring. Jesus said it is finished. Or did he mean, not finished?
Jesus said to keep the NTPO in rememberance of Him but the "proper" way of keeping it was lost. So, it needed to be restored so we can keep it in rememberance of Him.
So it took him coming secretly from S. Korea (married with children), then revealing a secret mother from S. Korea (was married also with children), whom by the way, is yet to reveal herself to the world as god, to restore what was never really gone? Sounds like Blasphemy. I don't accept this type of teaching. Jesus said it was finished. Go ye out and preach the gospel. The Holy Spirit was the first sign of the comforter Jesus sent. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (this was not talking about his birth way). Acts 1:11.
Well.. Ash had to come in secret because no one would believe he was the Christ if he performed great miracles. He learned from his first mistake as "Jesus" who did all sorts of miracles but still very few people believed Jesus was God. So, this time, Ash decided to try something different.
144000 wrote:
renita.payno
What you call a Christmas Tree is actually a Yule Tree, and you are supposed to raise it to get blessings from norse gods. What you call a Wreath is actually a ritual-construction built to invite the life energy of nature into your home to give you a long life. What you call Mistletoe is in pagan custom hung so that people may find love under it as Freya cried atop mistletoe over her love for baldur.
In addition to many things, that is why it is a pagan holiday.
Eating a dinner meal on Christmas however is not pagan. In fact, even eating a dinner specifically prepared FOR Christmas isn't pagan; as long as you make sure nobody prays over your food or idolizes it before you are served.
You are confusing two entirely seperate Festivals, and the modes by which they honor pagan gods.
As far as the Christmas tree.. I never mentioned it as a Christmas tree. Being that Christmas is religious festival, that would make the tree a religious tradition. I specifically said the 25th of December for a reason. If I were to decorate a tree on the 25th of December, is that pagan? From my understanding, nothing is pagan until God/god is involved. Is this correct?
If eating a honey glazed cherry ham in my family is traditionally done for the celebration of Christmas, does eating the ham become a pagan ritual? To be honest.. my family doesn't make this kind of ham at any other time of the year. It's a special, traditional meal for Christmas. Because of this, has the ham become a pagan tradition? Personally, I would say no because no God/god is involved.
Also, please explain to me the WMSCOG's meaning of "pagan". Someone here said something is pagan only when multiple gods are involved, not just 1.
Sarah2013
You must not believe that Zion is in ruins during the last days as the bible dictates to us plainly.
You also must not believe that God will appear when he rebuilds Zion and takes credit for he himself being the one who rebuilds it as he appears.
I do not call your biblical interpretations slanderous, do not get me wrong, but attacking our character and participating in conservations which imply we ever do anything illegal, IS. That is actually the most severe case of slander, when you accuse somebodyh without proof and distribute that false claim to the public.
You claim we do illegal things, yet I do not see you picking up the phone and dialing 911.
Why don't you do that?
Why don't you call 911 right now and see what the police have to say about the accusations posted on this forum, tell them about your local branch.
Because if you do not, or if you are lying, that is very much slander.
So when you say to me that you are exposing our lies, when you say so full of confidence that you have the -evidence-; I say to you, that you fear to pick up the phone and call 911 to prove it.
renita.payno
Really, what religious tradition? When did Jesus say "and pick for yourselves a tree, at least one and a half cubits tall, and fashion a cherubim of one solid piece and put it on top of the tree?". You know the full implications of what Dec.25th means, I will not exclude mentioning all of the pagan rituals done on that day which Christians now say they do for themselves.
Heck, the pagans even admit that Christians stole it!
And yes, decorating a tree or pole is very specifically a pagan ritual.
Where did christmas trees come from? Did the wise men come bring a christmas tree and decorate it with silver sashes? No.
Where did wreaths come from? Did the Christians fashion circular plant arrangements specifically for Dec.25th because they have super-powers from Jesus? No.
Did Jesus say, "kiss under mistletoe, and I will give you long lasting love"? No.
Those are not "coincidences". You have to go out of your way to make a wreath. You have to chop down a tree and drag it into your house, a big affair! You have to go out and specifically buy or pick mistletoe and then you have to tell people to kiss under it because "lulz its christmas!"
Do you know why Holly became a Christmas decoration?
Because I DO know where theese customs come from:
"Romans gave one another holly wreaths and carried them about decorating images of Saturn with it"
Pagan is anything that gives worship to a god other than God, or that adds to or subtracts from the word of God with religious significance as in the OT such occurances were always linked to paganism. And in fact today, all the "Christian" heresies are in fact linked to paganism.
144000 wrote:
Sarah2013
You must not believe that Zion is in ruins during the last days as the bible dictates to us plainly.
You also must not believe that God will appear when he rebuilds Zion and takes credit for he himself being the one who rebuilds it as he appears.
I do not call your biblical interpretations slanderous, do not get me wrong, but attacking our character and participating in conservations which imply we ever do anything illegal, IS. That is actually the most severe case of slander, when you accuse somebodyh without proof and distribute that false claim to the public.
You claim we do illegal things, yet I do not see you picking up the phone and dialing 911.
Why don't you do that?
Why don't you call 911 right now and see what the police have to say about the accusations posted on this forum, tell them about your local branch.
Because if you do not, or if you are lying, that is very much slander.
So when you say to me that you are exposing our lies, when you say so full of confidence that you have the -evidence-; I say to you, that you fear to pick up the phone and call 911 to prove it.
Once again. You guys are just plain funny. Your organization is only set up to make money (lawsuits, bigshine and the like) and cause mental division – family break ups. What sort of god is that? A friend of mine is getting ready to exit out of that place, trust me, you don't want to know his reasons. Just that simple. You guys will expose yourself in due time.
Smh
144000 wrote:
renita.payno
Really, what religious tradition? When did Jesus say "and pick for yourselves a tree, at least one and a half cubits tall, and fashion a cherubim of one solid piece and put it on top of the tree?". You know the full implications of what Dec.25th means, I will not exclude mentioning all of the pagan rituals done on that day which Christians now say they do for themselves.
Heck, the pagans even admit that Christians stole it!
And yes, decorating a tree or pole is very specifically a pagan ritual.
Where did christmas trees come from? Did the wise men come bring a christmas tree and decorate it with silver sashes? No.
Where did wreaths come from? Did the Christians fashion circular plant arrangements specifically for Dec.25th because they have super-powers from Jesus? No.
Did Jesus say, "kiss under mistletoe, and I will give you long lasting love"? No.
Those are not "coincidences". You have to go out of your way to make a wreath. You have to chop down a tree and drag it into your house, a big affair! You have to go out and specifically buy or pick mistletoe and then you have to tell people to kiss under it because "lulz its christmas!"
Do you know why Holly became a Christmas decoration?
Because I DO know where theese customs come from:
"Romans gave one another holly wreaths and carried them about decorating images of Saturn with it"
Pagan is anything that gives worship to a god other than God, or that adds to or subtracts from the word of God with religious significance as in the OT such occurances were always linked to paganism. And in fact today, all the "Christian" heresies are in fact linked to paganism.
But, like you said in another thread, if there is no prayer or god involved, it's not pagan. So, if I decided to decorate a tree 1.5 cubits tall and place a bow on top on any day, shoot let's say I do it everyday, then it's ok. Jesus didn't tell me to a lot of things that aren't religious. Jesus didn't say to take professional photos 3 times a year.. But if I take the photos for the blessing ofa having a growing family, doesn't the session then become pagan?
There are a lot of traditions that people do that God didn't tell us to do and yet those things aren't pagan. I was just telling a friend of mine.. In my family, it's a tradition that the main women of the family [Grandmother, close aunts, mother] receive the largest photos of a set while everyone get wallet sizes. Not reserving a large portrait for the main women in the family is considered disrespect. It has nothing to do with God; we don't claim it's from the bible.. but it's a tradition. Is it wrong? I'd say no.. and according to what you said in another thread, you say no as well.
Answer to the topic of the Thread:
Hellzzzzz no.
The unknown says:
LOL you cant be serious!!! The answer is NO. Heavenly Mother did not celebrate a Pagan Holiday. Do you knowthe definiation of Pagan? I know you don't know what it is because if you did, you wouldn't be making such a nonsense accustaion.
Oh my mistake, perhaps I used the wrong word or perhaps I should have inserted the word roots behind pagan.
Do you know the meaning of the word accusation and apply it correctly?
Accusation A charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong
It was a question, Did mother god celebrate a Pagan holiday? Do you see the question mark at the end of the sentence.
Question a sentence in an interrogative form, addressed to someone in order to get information in reply.
Please don’t twist my words for your convenience. All in all thank you for your reply, that’s all I wanted to hear a simple YES or NO.
As far as your question goes the only way for me to know is by studying and asking questions but You The Unknown, 1004, FTOS and 144000 seem to think that questions are either an accusation, nonsense, stupid, or they make you an extremely confused individual.
How do you expect people to learn, if when one disagrees ( have or express a different opinion) you get annoyed and assume automatically the person is out to get you. Take Hal’s view for example, he totally disagrees with the majority of our views here but we don’t think he’s out to get us, we ask him questions to learn and understand where he is coming from.
I am willing to learn, but the teacher must be willing to be kind, patient, and understanding.
An effective teacher should posse a love and passion for teaching, demonstrates a caring attitude, is a good communicator, is willing to think outside the box, can relate to their students, An effective teacher understands the content that they teach and knows how to explain that content in a manner that their students understand. If you don’t have love and passion in you don’t try to teach.
Now if you would like to continue go ahead and teach me…The real question: Did Christ Ahnsahnghong restore the Passover? Thank You!
144000 says:
KF
You are extremely confused
144000 Asking questions does not make a person extremely confused, on the contrary.
When we ask questions we learn and educate ourselves. Unless you assume that somebody else is going to just spontaneously tell you just the right things at all times, it's the only way to get an answer! "there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers" has always been my motto!
@The Unknown – I have a question for you. Do you believe that Jesus was the passover lamb? That he became the final passover sacrifice and we don't need to sacrifice lambs anymore?
How do you determine if Ahnsanghong did or did not restore the passover? There are thousands of churches all over the world, how does a person know for sure that a church does not keep the sabbath or the feast of God (passover)
Why you would have to pretty much call, visit, research, or" ask questions" about all the churches worldwide in order to know for sure that the passover is not being celebrated there or that they have never celebrated it or that it was not around until Ahnsanghong restored it, in 1967? How do you proof that to the rest of the world that WMSCOG is the true church with the living God, and it's founder was the one that restored the passover.
How can you know for sure that no church/ group of people big or small in the entire world did not celebrated the passover after christians were being killed and force to go underground/caves because of their faith in Jesus?
Now ya don't come answering with an attitude or sarcastic remarks, these are simply questions not trick questions and so I expect a respectful answer.
^Thank you
The Unknown wrote:
Storm,
Thank you very much for your question.
Just out of curiosity how did you get the year 1967? Did you hear that from someone?
Also, to answer your question, one would not have to visit/call/ask etc every church in the world to find out if they are keep/kept the Passover. Through many verses in the Bible, it is clear that the only one who can "restore/teach" the Passover CORRECTLY, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE'S REGULATION, is Christ Himself. So if one claims that they "restored the Passover" then they are claiming that they are Christ Himself. However, all these other churches that claim they keep the Passover correctly, testify that they themselves or the one who established their teaching isn't Christ. So that is the evidence that their "Passover" isn't correct.
However, Christ Ahnsahnghong "restored/taught" the Passover, correctly according to the Bible's regulation" and He testified that he is Christ Himself.
Care to elaborate? A few of those many verses please.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.