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I don't know if everyone knows about this already but for the sake of those who don't know and want clarifications, I'll explain here.
What is the Passover? Super basic question being encountered with the wmscogs. If you don't know anything about it and wmscog asks "are you celebrating the Passover?" Then you would answer No. If they would say, then you are not following God's command, you will not enter Heaven. IF you have little biblical understanding, then you would listen to their explainations and think "Oh my gosh! I am going to hell!"
Now, your thoughts would also depend on what you do believe about the Bible. Do you believe in the Old testament? or the New testament? Or Both?
For the purpose of not getting confused over the Passover and the Lord's Supper, we'll pretend that everyone that reads here believes in Both testaments.
In the Old Testament, when God (thru Moses) led the Israelites out of the land of slavery, one of His ordinances was the Passover. The people were told to take a 1 year old lamb without defect and take its blood and spread it on the side and on the top of the door. Then the people were to eat the roasted lamb, every bit of it, leaving nothing behind. God said that they do this yearly to commemorate the time when He save them from slavery. This was one of His covenants / contracts to the Israelites.
In the New Testament, Jesus told the disciples to prepare the Passover meal. DURING the Passover, he made a NEW covenant. He took the bread and wine and shared it with them and told them "Do this in remembrance of me". That's why the sharing of bread and wine is called the Lord's Supper. The bread symbolizes his body, which will be nailed on the cross and the wine symbolizes his blood which will be shed for many for the forgiveness of sins.
The Passover and the Lord's Supper were totally different covenants. The Passover is in REMEMBRANCE OF GOD SAVING THEM FROM EGYPT and the Lord's Supper is in REMEMBRANCE OF THE SACRIFICE OF JESUS TO SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD FROM SIN.
We were the ones that were supposed to die because of our sins, but Jesus died for us so we don't have to. In other words, he became a Passover Lamb, a sacrifice so that our sins will be forgiven. When he made that ULTIMATE sacrifice, the Passover was made obsolete. You can find in Hebrews more explanations on this. But the point here is because his SACRIFICE was so complete, so ultimate, that we don't have to kill any animal to sacrifice again. We could not equal the importance of the Son of God's blood to the blood of a animal.
So the Passover is obsolete. The Lord's Supper is NOT the PASSOVER. By definition, the word NEW means it is something that has never been made before. It is different from the word RENEWED. But what word was used in the Bible? IT'S A NEW COVENANT, not a RENEWED one.
So if you are asked by wmscog members, "Then why do you not celebrate the Passover?" You can tell them, "I celebrate the Lord's Supper" (if you really do)
Or you can say "You don't celebrate it either, I don't see you spreading blood of lambs on the side and top of your doors."
I am not going to dispute this in any way. Please check out my post, "What really happened at Jesus last Passover." It's an amazing and beutiful thing that He did and to date, in my mind, the coolest thing that He ever did. It proves who the bride is and His love for us.
@Elievalkyrie, wow I can see what your saying, if I wouldn't have study at the church, I could easily believe this verison too, I am not saying your wrong, but I also read Joshua's forum and it makes sense too, everything everyone of you are saying makes sense in different ways. This is why we have to think, Who really has the truth out there, because the possibilities are endless. The good thing is I get to learn from everyone.
The problem is we cannot use custom to decipher Jesus's actions only law, he was opposed to extra-scriptural customs.
And emphasising New Covenant really doesn't make it not passover because WMSCOG (and other people not in any way a part of WMSCOG who believe it was Passover) already emphasise that.
It is also self-defeating to claim that it isn't Passover while talking about Jesus as a Passover lamb in connection to it.
Elievalkyrie wrote:
Jesus was Jew, He was not opposed to extra-scriptural customs, He followed the customs but He teaches that following customs is not the INTEGRAL part of salvation. The bible states that by having complete FAITH in Him is the only way that we can be save. We are not saved by our good works, or our obedience to traditions, sabbaths, feasts or any other sacrifices but by our FAITH. Because when he died on the cross, He nailed all those wordly things to the cross.
Jesus was VERY against the extrascriptural customs, he called them hypocrisy and Deut 5 forbids them so as God it was his duty to forbid them
What I meant about the Passover lamb is that Jesus already fulfilled that role, so the Passover that they are talking about is not necessary anymore. Because you cannot substitute the blood of the Lamb of God to a lamb animal on earth. When his blood was sacrifice, His was the ultimate, and God in Heaven will not accept anything less than that.
Except that isn't "the Passover they are talking about"
As for Groom and Bride I never said anything about it being wrong (since leaving), even though I am not convinced entirely on the topic.
No matter whether a New Passover exists or not they are NOT talking about the Old Covenant Passover. You need to NOT strawman them if you want to win. Instead of saying they are talking about the Old Covenant Passover you need to say they are talking about something that doesn't exist. You cannot say for the reason they they are talking about something that doesn't exist they are really talking about something that does exist.
As for not seeing me agree with anything that's because you haven't been here long, I have agreed to a lot of things. Just lately there has been a lot of misrepresentation of the Church, and while they are evil (as an organization not the individual victims within) we are told not to bear false witness, and the other fact is when you misrepresent you lose ground in the spiritual battle against the opponent.
Either Passover New Covenant exists or it does not exist. The fact of the matter is they are not talking about the Passover you claim they are no matter how much you want to say they are.
I think what simon is saying is that the new covt po never existed. What jesus did with the bread and wine was marraige proposal, not renewing the old covt po. Even in the video with the black jews, they agree that not only the po, but all the feasts were not going to be affected by christs coming. Only the sacrifices for sins and the punishments for sins which is what seems to have happened in agreement with all christians. They don’t kill pigeons or rams and they don’t stone people anymore. So, saying the po was changed doesn’t agree with the scripture. There is no new covt po and there never was a new covt po.
That face looks like a frog =)
although Jesus arguably by the Gospels isn't human sacrifice but deity sacrifice :
I think to an extent in CERTAIN circumstances you can be culpable of your own being killed by another (not saying this is an example)
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