[Love'n Honey]

I approached one of the members in my class about the cross being an idol.

My arguement:

Anything and anyone can be an idol. (He agreed) even our children can be idols if we love them more than we love god. (He agreed). According to the teaching, we must destroy our idols. (He looked puzzled). But of course god doesn’t want us to destroy our children. (He agreed). So, we must begin to love god more than we love our children. (He agreed) then they won’t be idols anymore. (He agreed). So, if I stop bowing and praying to a cross, it’s no longer and idol. (He disagreed). Your children aren’t idols simply because I love mine more than god. (He agreed) your bible isn’t an idol because other people pray to theirs. (He agreed) so my cross isn’t an idol because other people pray to theirs. (He disagreed but couldn’t find a way to counter the logic.)

Another brother came and argued that gods thoughts are greater than ours. What he calls an idol is an idol no matter what we think. Then I told them how god describes an idol and how the cross is not specifically on the list. He brought up the history of the israelites worshipping the snake on the pole, how god called it an idol. Then I countered saying it was only called an idol once the people bowed and worshipped it. Just because it was made doesn’t make it an idol as god describes. Then he changes the subject to spiritual idols. I redirected saying I didn’t ask about spiritual idols but about physical idols. You’re teaching that all crosses are idols but the scripture doesn’t say that.

I also brought up the fact that jesus’ “face” is an image of what is in heaven which is an idol but is hanging all around zion. He laughed and asked if I was serious. He said its art. I said, so is the painting of a cross.. break was over so I needed to get back to class. But the first guy I spoke to seemed very puzzled about what I was saying and was unsure how to defend his truth. Mind you, he ought to know because he’s been a member for 5 years. Truth is, you can’t successfully defend a lie as truth.

[Simon]

[Simon]

The Talmud Bavli consists of documents compiled over the period of Late Antiquity (3rd to 5th centuries). The most important of the Jewish centres in Mesopotamia, later known as Iraq, during this time were Nehardea, Nisibis, Mahoza (just to the south of what is now Baghdad), Pumbeditha (a town more famous in our times as Fallujah), and the Sura Academy.

Talmud Bavli (the "Babylonian Talmud") comprises the Mishnah and the Babylonian Gemara, the latter representing the culmination of more than 300 years of analysis of the Mishnah in the Babylonian Academies. The foundations of this process of analysis were laid by Rab, a disciple of Rabbi Judah ha-Nasi. Tradition ascribes the compilation of the Babylonian Talmud in its present form to two Babylonian sages, Rav Ashi and Ravina. Rav Ashi was president of the Sura Academy from 375 to 427 CE. The work begun by Rav Ashi was completed by Ravina, who is traditionally regarded as the final Amoraic expounder. Accordingly, traditionalists argue that Ravina’s death in 499 CE is the latest possible date for the completion of the redaction of the Talmud. However, even on the most traditional view a few passages are regarded as the work of a group of rabbis who edited the Talmud after the end of the Amoraic period, known as the Saboraim or Rabbanan Savora'e (meaning "reasoners" or "considerers").

The question as to when the Gemara was finally put into its present form is not settled among modern scholars. Some, like Louis Jacobs, argue that the main body of the Gemara is not simple reportage of conversations, as it purports to be, but a highly elaborate structure contrived by the Saboraim, who must therefore be regarded as the real authors. On this view the text did not reach its final form until around 700. Some modern scholars use the term Stammaim (from the Hebrew Stam, meaning "closed", "vague" or "unattributed") for the authors of unattributed statements in the Gemara. (See eras within Jewish law.)