- Topic
The more I spend time talking to members and ex-members of the WMSCOG one thing is reviled over and over again. It seems that the initial hook placed into people when this group first reels someone in instantly creates distrust in anything outside of the group. This causes people not to do any studying outside on their own. I want to know how many people did some studies, felt something was wrong with what was being taught, and discovered outside the group what other truths there are about this group?
The problem is what are we supposed to research all doctrine must come from scripture that is Jesus own teaching so ultimately any source that contradicts scripture should pretty much be disgarded and I do not know any sources to research that do not do so in ways that are obvious to me before even coming to WMC.
For the record our Church doesn't teach Constantine abolished the Sabbath it teaches he took the tradition and made it law making it difficult for those who did not keep that tradition.
That said I did not do research before because I put my faith in the doctrine not the explanation for why it was removed/changed.
shimon wrote:
For the record our Church doesn't teach Constantine abolished the Sabbath it teaches he took the tradition and made it law making it difficult for those who did not keep that tradition.
That said I did not do research before because I put my faith in the doctrine not the explanation for why it was removed/changed.
This is from the church website's page about the Sabbath (http://english.watv.org/truth/truth_life/content_fundamental.asp)
In A.D. 321, Constantine, a Roman emperor, decreed an edict:
"All judges, city-people and craftsmen shall rest on the venerable day of the Sun."
Some argue that the abolishment of the Sabbath compelled many people to convert to Christianity, but we must not forget that altering God's commandments was Satan's scheme.
And this is from a sermon entitled, "The Sabbath and God's Salvation" (I'd give you the link to it, but apparently it's been taken down off the watv website):
"The truth of the Sabbath began to be obscured from the 2nd century after the Apostolic Age, and in 321 it was officially abolished as the Roman emperor declared Sunday as a day of rest. Thus, the law of worship on Sunday started in Rome, and it has continued until this day."
You also said, "The problem is what are we supposed to research all doctrine must come from scripture that is Jesus own teaching so ultimately any source that contradicts scripture should pretty much be disgarded and I do not know any sources to research that do not do so in ways that are obvious to me before even coming to WMC."
How about historical research, not about doctrine, but about the historical claims made by the wmscog?
I did some historical research about the Pope-is-antichrist claim (which is not unique to the wmscog), and found that the historical record did not support it. (http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2011/09/pope-is-not-antichrist-summary-of-is.html)
The problem is I chose my church and would choose any other church should the hypothetical situation occur based on doctrine not history lessons.
shimon wrote:
The problem is I chose my church and would choose any other church should the hypothetical situation occur based on doctrine not history lessons.
even if that history proved your chuch's doctrine wrong?
like?
shimon wrote:
like?
i thought you didn't look at history? now you will look at the history?
shimon wrote:
like?
For example, say a church taught a doctrine, and one of the key supports for that doctrine was their 'evidence' that Columbus set off to discover the Americas in 1486. In fact, Columbus did not expect to discover new land, and he set sail in 1492. Do you see how the factual errors not only take down their doctrine, but also reflect poorly on their integrity?
Not only is there a problem with the wmscog's teaching about Constantine and the Sabbath, and about the absence of the Passover (it was not absent from the world), but there is also a history-related problem with their Antichrist teaching.
I'll list a few issues, but all the research is available here.
The claimed 10 kingdoms don't match up with the historical record.
5 kingdoms were conquered, not 3, and being Catholic or not was not a factor.
The Ostrogoths were destroyed in 553, not 538.
The change in that date messes up the calculation of the 1260 years.
Shimon, I haven't heard back from you about this yet.
Have you looked at this historical information that contradicts the wmscog's antichrist doctrine?
Sorry Genny I don't remember the doctrine saying what you say so I was trying to find where it said it. I realize UCC space may say it but I am not entirely sure our church makes those or if we just use them which ultimately shouldn't make a difference but I am trying to find my notes from Daniel 2 and 7 see what it says for years.
I remember 538 being something but not anything about the ostrogoths.
Regarding WMC teaching on Sabbath when we talk about constantine we are oversimplifying our doctrine we aknowledge sunday service existing in the 100s, even one of Ahnsahnghongs books says it I do not remember which one off hand.
As for Passover you do realize we are not counting Old Covenant Passover when we talk about Passover being abolished right?
I don't see the logic there New Covenant Passover wasn't abolished because Old Covenant Passover wasn't abolished?
because the teaching is Passover New Covenant was abolished not Passover in both forms or Passover Old Covenant was abolished it is shorthand to say Passover without New Covenant to modify it. (Now one could seek to debate if Passover New Covenant exists and if they reach the conclusion it doesn't that would be a different story)
shimon wrote:
Sorry Genny I don't remember the doctrine saying what you say so I was trying to find where it said it. I realize UCC space may say it but I am not entirely sure our church makes those or if we just use them which ultimately shouldn't make a difference but I am trying to find my notes from Daniel 2 and 7 see what it says for years.
I remember 538 being something but not anything about the ostrogoths.
Regarding WMC teaching on Sabbath when we talk about constantine we are oversimplifying our doctrine we aknowledge sunday service existing in the 100s, even one of Ahnsahnghongs books says it I do not remember which one off hand.
As for Passover you do realize we are not counting Old Covenant Passover when we talk about Passover being abolished right?
Why would the wmscog use other people's videos to teach their doctrine? That wouldn't make sense. The UCC Space videos all end in "Production: Liebe Mutter." 'Liebe Mutter' is German for 'love mother' or 'dear mother' or 'love of mother.'
The relevant video is "The identity of 666 in the book of Revelation."
And you'll find the information in your evidence book also.
About Passover, now we are back to the requirements of what makes a "New Covenant Passover" according to the wmscog's definition. I was referring to Christian believers taking the bread and wine on Passover evening, and yes, some did (still do) include a footwashing ceremony.
genny wrote:
shimon wrote:
Sorry Genny I don't remember the doctrine saying what you say so I was trying to find where it said it. I realize UCC space may say it but I am not entirely sure our church makes those or if we just use them which ultimately shouldn't make a difference but I am trying to find my notes from Daniel 2 and 7 see what it says for years.
I remember 538 being something but not anything about the ostrogoths.
Regarding WMC teaching on Sabbath when we talk about constantine we are oversimplifying our doctrine we aknowledge sunday service existing in the 100s, even one of Ahnsahnghongs books says it I do not remember which one off hand.
As for Passover you do realize we are not counting Old Covenant Passover when we talk about Passover being abolished right?
Why would the wmscog use other people's videos to teach their doctrine? That wouldn't make sense. The UCC Space videos all end in "Production: Liebe Mutter." 'Liebe Mutter' is German for 'love mother' or 'dear mother' or 'love of mother.'
The relevant video is "The identity of 666 in the book of Revelation."
And you'll find the information in your evidence book also.
About Passover, now we are back to the requirements of what makes a "New Covenant Passover" according to the wmscog's definition. I was referring to Christian believers taking the bread and wine on Passover evening, and yes, some did (still do) include a footwashing ceremony.
As in made by a member not WMC directly
My Evidence book has no dates in it
As for Passover
It should be 1/14 and ALSO there should be a second Passover 2/14
It must contain the promise of being released from the sinful world (spiritual egypt)
It must contain the promise of protection from plagues and disasters
It must contain the promise of exposing false gods
The Sun God and the cross (idol)sure have been….
I cannot speak a word about your friend. I know nothing of her life before or after WMC nor how you define experiencing disasters.
Which evidence book have you got, Shimon?
Here are pictures from the one I've used:
http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2011/11/daniels-prophecy.html
(And I'm curious if you have looked at any of the websites I've linked to in my posts to you here, because from your other responses it seems like you have ignored them.)
I’ve only seen the links to your website
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