- Topic
I've bolded the important stuff for all you TLDRers.
Y'all know I'm a bold person. I obtained the number of a male member and called him today. To conceal and protect his identity, we shall call him Billy. This morning I called Billy and introduced myself as Renita, a former member of the WMSCOG. He asked why I was calling him. I said I wanted to tell him what the WMSCOG members don't want you to know. I was a member for a couple years. I was baptized on PO in 2010 and left at the end of June 2012. I left because Ash wrote a book explaining how the Scripture doesn't testify of God the Mother. He said he never heard of this book. I was very shocked! I thought everyone knew. Anyway, I told him that Ash said explicitly that Gal 4:26 is talking about the place the 144,000 will go, not God the Mother. He said he had an incoming call and just hung up.
A few minutes after that conversation I received a call from a blocked number. I knew it was a member, a scared one at that. Why else block your number. You have mine, why can't I have yours? Moving along.. He refused to tell me who he was. So, we'll just call him Minion. Minion asked me why I was calling his members and bothering them. I explained that I was informing Billy of the secrets your church keeps from him for obvious reasons. We both know why you're calling me and who you're referring to. Minion says he knows all about the book and blah, blah, blah. He demanded that I stop calling and texting Billy. I told him if Billy doesn't want me to call or text he can tell me himself. You don't control him. He doesn't answer to you. Minion said, Yes I do. I do control him so stop calling and texting him. He kept talking but I wasn't registering what he said. I heard Judas Iscariot and left the truth but my brain was stuck on "I do control him..".
This is the mindset of the group leaders. They control you and he's absolutely correct. He tells Billy who he can and can't talk to. They tell the members what websites they can visit, what to wear, how to speak, etc. He's absolutely right. He controls Billy. But to hear him say it so boastfully, to hear that evil chuckle after he said it just broke my heart. It's no longer an assumption or a result of examination. He openly admitted it. The balls on this guy!
I cried.. I was upset.. but after the few minutes of crying my anger turned into my motivation. Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot. Nothing is going to get better. It's not.
Cult is a strong word, and I don't mean to offend anyone by using it. So, of course, I don't use it with members. I know that wouldn't be productive. And I agree with you that control is a very accurate word to use when talking about the wmscog. However, undue influence and control are the hallmarks of cults. There just isn't any way to get around that. Strong words are sometimes the best to describe something that is very damaging and dangerous. For our purposes here, I don't believe we can puss/y foot around with trying to be so "politically correct." I am not saying that to offend anyone, truly, I am just stating my view. I respect Q for his opinion, and you for yours.
Azula, I am sure you are compeltely accurate on the importance of obedience with the wmscog. But it is disguised as "protecting." Some, of course, actually believe they are "protecting," too. Most members are really caring, nice people who want to help and protect others, in my opinion. Then there are the others.
my argument is that because the word is generally misunderstood en masse, a group can define it in any way they want. thus, any member that comes to this site just experiences confirmation bias in the form of "bigotry", etc., etc.
so yes, I argue further that its use on the forums only serves the purpose of venting frustration, which – in my view – engenders the group and its methods of control as in part depicted in my previous sentence.
in my view, this site is called examnining, and sure the scope could include use of the word. I argue that its use would be more germane in a forum entitled ventingaboutthewmscog or something of that nature.
'in the time of Jesus being crucified on the cross, He and His disciples were referred to as a cult' – it's just that simple and people will believe what they're told. thinking = eliminated. most all of what destructive groups accomplish in control is done with setting up the issues the way the group wants and emphasizes, and how it defines the debate. resulting in the equivalent of the outside is arguing apples while the people they're trying to help is arguing oranges. describe the apples and describe the oranges. easier said than done when the insiders are taught and internalize and then resist any conversation even remotely related, I realize.
just my thoughts.
Understood. I am sure others have the same opinion as you.
Well said YoMamma.
YoMomma SoFat wrote:
… but we are not them. You forgot that part MM. Lol.
Just because any group can give a word their own definition doesn't mean we should shy away from using the word. How about instead of running away from the word cult we educate them on what it means? Let's examine why the WMSCOG is considered a cult to South Korea and to those who use the word cult, both for venting and for just telling it like it is.
1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.the object of such devotion.
4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
That's from dictionary dot com. So……. if these are definitions of the word cult, then why am I considered to be "venting" by calling the WMSCOG a cult? If a cult is always destructive, then why say "destructive cult"? That's redundant. We see, however, a cult isn't always destructive. I learned this as a member. A cult is just a bunch of people who have the same beliefs. Instead of encouraging people (both members and non-members) to continue misusing the word, educate them. Cult has some bitterness to it just like odor but even an odor is a fragrance.
On the checklist of what makes a group a cult, you hit a grand total of zero.
In its most simplest form, a high control group would want members brains to function like a computer program.
As the leader the goal would have the program to run as follows:
Line 1, proceed to Line 2
Line 2, return to Line 1.
This is an example of a closed loop.
If anyone tries to break that loop, you as programmer, would prevent it from being broken.
Optimally, if the programmer wanted a multitude of programs running, time would not permit the programmer to be present with all of them. The programmer would then re-write the code to something like this:
Line 1, proceed to Line 2
Line 2, if “any information outside of that sanctioned by the programmer is present”, then proceed to line 3, if not then proceed to line 4.
Line 3, recall outside = bad, inside = good, recall fear information from Line 2, or will result in eternal damnation (etc., and so on); proceed to Line 4.
Line 4, return to Line 1.
This is an example of a reinforced (closed) loop in which the member him/herself acts as his/her own guardian, protecting the programming code.
Man is a social creature and this can be abused. Jesus knew the nature of mankind and in my view this can be seen in His warnings against going into the wilderness or inner rooms. The lesson here being that the social atmosphere around us has a great impact on how we perceive the world (the programmer would obviously define that scripture to assure its desired ends). If we were born into an Arab country it is highly likely that we would be muslim. If we were born in India it is highly likely that our marriages would be arranged for us. These things would be completely normal to us in those social environments. This is not a judgement on these societies, but is used as an example of how when people belong to a society, one's behavior is normalized.
Thus, in a high-control group, preventing outside information is of the highest priority. All will be normal. If we were from India and someone said to us "how can you even believe in an arranged marriage"?, we would think them crazy, not us.
There is a lot more to it, but that would be the core, imo.
The wmscog does use the social nature of man against it's members. They actually use an old marketing technique called "social proofing" very well. It's not unlike what you described, Q, in that the approach is "Everybody is doing it, you should too." It's as if to say "Hey this is how normal people act, and there are a lot of us that think this way, so we must be right. Join us so you can fit in." I was involved in a social proofing activity once for a good cause and that is how I recognized it when I saw it being used by the wmscog. Their orchestrated and increasingly louder "Amens" from different parts of the church during sermons is also part of that.
Yep, you either conform with others, or you risk becoming a black sheep.
So grab a bucket of black paint and get it over with 😀
Black is the new white!
YoMomma SoFat wrote:
I'm no sheep! But I am black..
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/600/its-something.jpg
YoMomma SoFat wrote:
Emil-
I don't get it.. You can't hang up on me if neither of us is contacting each other. So, what's your point?
Here's what I meant. To begin with, you contacted Billy and he wanted to avoid you. Minion probably ordered Billy not to speak with you. Next, Minion tried to order you to stop calling Billy.
When Billy called you after that, you showed a reluctance to carry on a conversation with him. That would give him a feeling of confidence that he is above you and a curiosity about whether he would be able to recruit you back and this might motivate him to initiate future conversations.
Anything new on the Billy/Minion front? Funny people!
Doesn't sound like Billy and Minion have both oars in the water.
So you guys know … I'm someone who is learning, enjoying and hoping that one day .. that old Korean Lady dies .. I have written on different other posts and have asked questions .. Somedays I become more hopeful than others by what I read in this forum .. This is a huge, painful nonetheless, learning experience .. I can't wait to see the day my X girl gets out of that damn cult …
Love'n Honey wrote:
Even the ones that call me Judas Iscariot or the devil, etc.
Wait, I thought I was Judas Iscariot? -_-
Could it be that we both fulfil the prophesy?? :O
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