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I've bolded the important stuff for all you TLDRers.
Y'all know I'm a bold person. I obtained the number of a male member and called him today. To conceal and protect his identity, we shall call him Billy. This morning I called Billy and introduced myself as Renita, a former member of the WMSCOG. He asked why I was calling him. I said I wanted to tell him what the WMSCOG members don't want you to know. I was a member for a couple years. I was baptized on PO in 2010 and left at the end of June 2012. I left because Ash wrote a book explaining how the Scripture doesn't testify of God the Mother. He said he never heard of this book. I was very shocked! I thought everyone knew. Anyway, I told him that Ash said explicitly that Gal 4:26 is talking about the place the 144,000 will go, not God the Mother. He said he had an incoming call and just hung up.
A few minutes after that conversation I received a call from a blocked number. I knew it was a member, a scared one at that. Why else block your number. You have mine, why can't I have yours? Moving along.. He refused to tell me who he was. So, we'll just call him Minion. Minion asked me why I was calling his members and bothering them. I explained that I was informing Billy of the secrets your church keeps from him for obvious reasons. We both know why you're calling me and who you're referring to. Minion says he knows all about the book and blah, blah, blah. He demanded that I stop calling and texting Billy. I told him if Billy doesn't want me to call or text he can tell me himself. You don't control him. He doesn't answer to you. Minion said, Yes I do. I do control him so stop calling and texting him. He kept talking but I wasn't registering what he said. I heard Judas Iscariot and left the truth but my brain was stuck on "I do control him..".
This is the mindset of the group leaders. They control you and he's absolutely correct. He tells Billy who he can and can't talk to. They tell the members what websites they can visit, what to wear, how to speak, etc. He's absolutely right. He controls Billy. But to hear him say it so boastfully, to hear that evil chuckle after he said it just broke my heart. It's no longer an assumption or a result of examination. He openly admitted it. The balls on this guy!
I cried.. I was upset.. but after the few minutes of crying my anger turned into my motivation. Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot. Nothing is going to get better. It's not.
The responses given by the leader are understandble because they honestly believe that anything outside the cult is evil, so he probably believes he's controling for Billy the good. Ironic isn't it.
That is so sad! The leader may think they are controlling their recruits for the good, but the ones higher up know exactly what they are doing. Who are they to tell a person who they can talk to?
Exactly MM that is so sad. They should be able to talk to anyone they want too. Not just i told you not too. That like being in abusive relationship. Dont talk to them cause they do not know me.
Right on YoMomma that is true Billy will do some investigate now that he saw the evil come out of them. In due time Billy will be at this website to investigate.
WAKE UP Members see what this is doing to you being in a controlling situation.
Whoever seeks Him sincerely will eventually break free. As for the others, well… God's love is unfathomable, but also is his wrath.
He is not controlling. He is protecting.
In other words, I concur with Azula – with the exception of the word cult and the word control. They don't see it as a cult, that is for certain. Who in (general) society knows what one really is? Answer: no one, because people don't care. Thus, the group can shape that word into what ever they want. Advice: stop using it. Members are not going to research it.
Secondly, it is not likely that the members would explicitely be told what not to do. Remember, this must be internalized in order for it to work. Therefore, an implicit approach is more likely. As parents we either tell or are seen to tell our children what to do (explicit)(various reasons: time being at a premium, children of the "now" generation). We want to be like the dad on Leave it to Beaver or the Brady Bunch, (pre-80s television, a bit misogynistic, but w/e) in which dad gives out advice in the form of a story and those children just sit there and listen (so realistic!!) and then go about making their own decisions (implicit approach)…but we are not Ward Cleaver or Mike Brady. Yes or no. Because I said so.
Of course a group could covertly take advantage of our behavior (on a macro scale) – and with ease! Because behavior can be predicted in general, and because the public doesn't care about what a cult is this combined effect works in the favor of the group. Society in general must explain away "cult members"; mainly society is guilty of blaming the victim (they are stupid, naive, gullible, and so on), and part of this easing of cognitive dissonance provides the illusion that a cult has the power to grab anyone they want. This is mostly untrue. A successful cult waits for those looking for answers and then provides them. Thus almost everyone is recruitable, given that the group finds us at our vulnerable moments. Aha! New Member, you are among the "chosen" (who doesn't want that?), and this explains away the point I just made. Now get back out there and earn your way to Heaven by sifting through all of those sinners in the evil outside world for another of the chosen (ie, prime for recruitment)!
I think the term cult is useful, just not in conversation with someone who is actually in one and doesn't realize it. If I hadn't used the word "cult" in my internet search, I wouldn't have been able to access any information at all on the wmscog. No one would ever join a cult if they knew what it was. But how do you know what a destructive cult is (because cult is used to describe some good organizations as well) if you don't know what defines it. It's useful for the purpose of definition. Just my opinion. I know I typed in "Church of God" and got no information. 6 months later I typed in "Church of God Cult," and I couldn't believe all the info I got. If only I had known to do that earlier I think I might have gotten my loved one out before he was too far gone. Didn't happen.
I never use the word cult in my conversations with wmscog people. I agree it doesn't help anything, especially when they have been taught how to deal with that term.
Fair enough, MM. Most people are not interested until it affects them.
More to my point is that for most of the public the term is undefined. Thus, it is very easy for the group to define the word to its members. My research relative to this topic is wide in scope – I also research genocides. A theme in the seeds of control of a sample population (large or small) is not only redefining words, but the cherry picking is when something is vague or undefined to begin with – the group simply tells people what definition they want, and people accept it because those around them accept it. Therefore, at least to them, it surely must be true.
I see what you are saying, Q, and agree with much of it. And definitely, people in the general population don't understand the term and aren't interested untill they, or someone they know is directly involved. I surely have come to understand that in the last five years. Nobody cares. I guess that is why cults and mind control groups flourish. I do believe that this is a topic that should get a lot more publicity and some real educational support in our country, since there are over 2,000 cults here in the states and people have no idea.
YoMomma, I take back part of what I said. You care, and you follow your no nonsense heart. It's most definitely a mind control cult disguised as a religion. I know what those things are for sure. I need the simple terminology, and I know when to, and when not to use the terms. If you tell someone they are in a cult, they will deny it, because THEY would NEVER join a cult.
QuestionLa very well said.
I was told today from a wmscog member that I need to forget all the things that ' the false teachers' have taught me throughout my life and that I just need to come and study with them to find the "truth." Then i was told that I have ruined my mind with the lies from the internet and I needed to make an effort to just understand how they learn. WHAT? I just had to shut my mouth and say I love you… but how can a family member keep hearing this over and over and not become angry??? How can I contine to listen to how everything that I have ever learned from the bible was a lie without loosing my mind.If this wasn't a family member I would really tell them how I feel, but I don't want to loose contact!! …this person would of never in their life before the WMSCOG been so controlled! So, yes, they are controlled and now they are using the same tecniques on me!! Makes me sick for my loved one! They control where they live, what kind of job, what they wear, where and when they eat, their finances and who and when they spend time with the earthly family…and it's just getting worse on the control issue, I can hear it in their voice when I talk to them because all of the sudden during a good phone conversation it's like all the sudden they need to get off the phone and basically hangs up on me…It's like they are monitored on the phone calls now!!
SRE everything you said is true what they do
How about we all call Billy and see what Minion does then?
sre wrote:
I was told today from a wmscog member that I need to forget all the things that ' the false teachers' have taught me throughout my life and that I just need to come and study with them to find the "truth." Then i was told that I have ruined my mind with the lies from the internet and I needed to make an effort to just understand how they learn. WHAT? I just had to shut my mouth and say I love you… but how can a family member keep hearing this over and over and not become angry??? How can I contine to listen to how everything that I have ever learned from the bible was a lie without loosing my mind.If this wasn't a family member I would really tell them how I feel, but I don't want to loose contact!! …this person would of never in their life before the WMSCOG been so controlled! So, yes, they are controlled and now they are using the same tecniques on me!! Makes me sick for my loved one! They control where they live, what kind of job, what they wear, where and when they eat, their finances and who and when they spend time with the earthly family…and it's just getting worse on the control issue, I can hear it in their voice when I talk to them because all of the sudden during a good phone conversation it's like all the sudden they need to get off the phone and basically hangs up on me…It's like they are monitored on the phone calls now!!
Hang tough SRE don't lose your temper. If you lose your temper you lose contact with your loved one if you lose contact with your loved one you lose your loved one! have a glass of wine and watch the olympics. Start fresh tomorrow. you can do this!
I'm up for calling Billy
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