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Is the title of my new video. I'm really happy with this one!
Good vid, Brian!!
Love the new video, Brian! I was threatened by a deacon in the Naperville, Illinois, church. He told me to stop posting on this site and stop speaking out about the Wms. "Or else" were his words. I told him pretty much what you said in your video: "You have freedom of religion and I have freedom of speech."
I didn't know deacons in churches (at least real churches) threatened people. Anyone else been threatened?
Wow!! They are resorting to threatening now?
Their true colors are so vivid. Like Brian was trying to point out…If God coming from Korea is just a prophetic requirment, why are members taught, “Prayer of our wishes” in Korean, taught to speak Korean, cooking Korean meals etc? Jesus’ coming was about prophecy. Gentiles weren’t required to learn Hebrew, wear Yamakas etc. WMS has the complete mixing of many other religions and denominations and its rather sickening.
7th Day Adventist- The fact that ASH would reference the William Miller “Great disappointment” is stupid and so see through.
Islam commands that all muslims learn Arabic, so all WMS members disavow their Nations cultures to learn Korean.
Confucianism is big on obeying and not questioning leadership, no matter what. This is huge in WMS, and questioning members have been expelled or relocated.
The basics of Robert J. Lifton is that racism/superior status is justified.
The video is good for those researching before joining, yes.
All you're really doing is cementing the view of those still in, imo, because the superior attitude is justified. Moreover, this provides the atmosphere where deception is an acceptable practice. Show us some other group (acting similar) so at least we/current members/new persons researching can see how this is a common and basic technique among groups to maintain control and extend group membership?
Brian Taylor wrote:
jw03550 wrote:
The basics of Robert J. Lifton is that racism/superior status is justified.
The video is good for those researching before joining, yes.
All you're really doing is cementing the view of those still in, imo, because the superior attitude is justified. Moreover, this provides the atmosphere where deception is an acceptable practice. Show us some other group (acting similar) so at least we/current members/new persons researching can see how this is a common and basic technique among groups to maintain control and extend group membership?
To somebody on the inside, any form of opposition, no matter how loud or delicate will make them feel like they need to defend their "truth" .I am not an exit counselor. The majority of people who go in and come out will do so on their own regardless of critical material. At this point my foremost objective is to warn the public and provide something that ex-members who are grieved can watch, relate to and feel comfort.
Exactly, Brian. I think we can all agree on that. It won't help a member who is completely under the undue influence of the Wms. But my mission, and yours, I think, is to warn others. And, of course, to help ex-members who are still processing their exit from the Wms. Your videos are excellent for that. I have heard from some ex members that the videos they saw as members helped them when they started having doubts, too. You have done so much for so many, Brian. Thank you for that.
I encourage you to make a video, JW. I agree that it would be very helpful. I think something comparing the Wms to the Moonies and SDA's would be excellent. They really are a kind of combination of those two religions with a wierd Korean spin added.
How is it ok to celebrate Korean holidays but eliminate Christian ones? Also if any members drive to church on Saturday technically they Are breaking the rules of the sabbath. How do they get around that?0
Sandiego They never answer why they focus on Korean holidays. They mainly emphasize on “worldy” holidays being Evil. But again, research and truth helps. I remember wheb I found out Thanksgiving, according to WMS was bad. I was blown away because it didnt make sense…but I just dealt with it. When I got out and researched, I realized MUCH of the world doesnt celebrate it, let alone on the Last Thursday of November. Some countries tie no religious nature to it. The main Two premise to staying free from their spell, is free thinking and research. Free thinking is key because they place their interpretation on things mixed with half truths. Where one doesnt work as well, they spin the other hard.
Thanksgiving is the prime example. Since there isn’t a strong enough bible verse to deter it, they claim that, “Man can’t decide to make a day to be thankful”. Thats illogically because everyday should be Thanksgiving. And on and on
So wierd about Thanksgiving. I tried to tell my son the same about Thanksgiving, and that it is considered a "harvest celebration." also told him that there should be no reason not to give thanks on any day if you wanted to. He just completely shut it down as pagan. Then, a few years later he had his wife cooking a turkey on that day just like us. He just does not see that they waffle on what they demand from people, and they are so contradictory on their hard and fast rules.
I must admit the concept of this group has litter ally blown me away. My heart aches for these people. I feel compelled to go to their door In Santee and witness to them but I know it wouldn’t get me anywhere. I have been listening to your videos and I honestly love learning about this stuff. My oldest sister left our normal church and became LDS and they are a lot more open. I love in a neighborhood with a bunch of Hasidic Jewish people. In the members eyes what happens to the Jews after death? And also to they just pick and chola on what sabbath rules to follow. Surely they have to drive, use electricity and such on the sabbath. When I talked to my coworkers k tried to explain to them that Christ brought updated rules I. The New Testament but it seems like the WMSCOG is back peddling all the way back to the Old Testament and that they just flip flop around. It’s like the bible is a cliff notes or reference guide to them and the other books and teachings take precedent. Help me understand the Sabbath concept cause surely they aren’t following all of the rules of he sabbath entirely. I have been watching your YT videos all morning keep up the good work. And tell me in my boredom not to bother with them I don’t want to get trapped. Lol MM I am praying for your son to come home continuously now. It’s so crazy how an organization can be going on and growing like this in the USA. Also please make note there is probably a new home church in the point Loma area of SanDiego.
So here is their premise on Sabbath. Gen.2:1-3
God blessed the Sabbath day, making it Holy. Exodus 20:8 We must rest also as it is a command, and he made it Holy for US.
Exodus 31;12-8 Sabbath is to be kept for “all generations”. Isrealites at that time were put to death for challenging it. They state that it is the 7th day and shouldnt be changed.
Luke 4:16 Jesus kept the Sabbath as a custom
Acts 17:1-3 They use this to claim the Apostles kept the Sabbath even after Jesus’ ascension. And was also Pauls custom .
They then mix in some Anti-Catholic sentiments and literature and that is thr basis of their Sabbath study and thinking. If you challenge these, they have what is called “False insistences
” study to refute your knowledge.
my friend is still in.
so please keep that in mind when we all know members do come here.
one persons "warning others about to join" is another persons current member getting a more cemented ideology when they come here and read all the "slander".
fact is, these actions of the wmscog have a lot in common with other groups that spiritually abuse. they dont always completely overlap, but the themes are there for those that are open enough to see. which again is why I don't like categorical "cult" identifiers and why I advocate for more of a spectrum of influence that many people fall for all of the time.
I will work on my video making skills
Very good point, jw.
jw03550 wrote:
my friend is still in.
so please keep that in mind when we all know members do come here.
one persons "warning others about to join" is another persons current member getting a more cemented ideology when they come here and read all the "slander".
fact is, these actions of the wmscog have a lot in common with other groups that spiritually abuse. they dont always completely overlap, but the themes are there for those that are open enough to see. which again is why I don't like categorical "cult" identifiers and why I advocate for more of a spectrum of influence that many people fall for all of the time.
I will work on my video making skills
jw03550 wrote:
my friend is still in.
so please keep that in mind when we all know members do come here.
one persons "warning others about to join" is another persons current member getting a more cemented ideology when they come here and read all the "slander".
fact is, these actions of the wmscog have a lot in common with other groups that spiritually abuse. they dont always completely overlap, but the themes are there for those that are open enough to see. which again is why I don't like categorical "cult" identifiers and why I advocate for more of a spectrum of influence that many people fall for all of the time.
I will work on my video making skills
Well, I had a conversation with a member, I encouraged him/her to come on this site and do some more research. The person got very serious and said, "any current member that goes on that site, has already lost their faith, there is no reason for any member to go on that site unless they have already lost their faith. Whether they know it or not at the time, they have lost their faith"
That whole thing is in quotes because it is an exact quote! That person was in my opinion a very very knowledgeable person in the wmscog. So if you're a member and you're here, congratulations, you're out! Now run and talk to a profesional about your experience!
I am going to attempt to witness to a dear coworker who was baptized in the church last year. She and I became
Good friends and I really enjoy her sweet soul. I know she still dabbles in worldly things. She still smokes pot, listens to hip hop and things I’m sure the group doesn’t approve of…my question is what is my best approach. I do not think she is fully crossed over and the other coworker who brought her into the church is working on another Zion in an other area of town. WARNING in the Point Loma area. What is the best way to try to snap her out of it? Do I wait until the love pouring is over? Do I start inquiring now? Invite her to my church on Sunday? Clearly if she is still drinking wine and being social in worldly things the Sabbath rule can’t matter that much yet can it? She still listens to gospel music too. Which is fround upon. Any updates or insight would help!
Oh and she is African American so I don’t know if I should try the racist approach or not?
Sandiegogirl619 wrote:
I am going to attempt to witness to a dear coworker who was baptized in the church last year. She and I became
Good friends and I really enjoy her sweet soul. I know she still dabbles in worldly things. She still smokes pot, listens to hip hop and things I'm sure the group doesn't approve of…my question is what is my best approach. I do not think she is fully crossed over and the other coworker who brought her into the church is working on another Zion in an other area of town. WARNING in the Point Loma area. What is the best way to try to snap her out of it? Do I wait until the love pouring is over? Do I start inquiring now? Invite her to my church on Sunday? Clearly if she is still drinking wine and being social in worldly things the Sabbath rule can't matter that much yet can it? She still listens to gospel music too. Which is fround upon. Any updates or insight would help!
From my experience and it sounds similar, if she's still doing worldly activities , she hasn't fully crossed over yet. I knew of sisters who were still going to bars, listening to Drake, and cursing like a sailor. They usually fell away or barely attended services. Invite her out (maybe not to church) to somewhere social and just continue to talk to her about worldly things. Religion is always a touchy subject because in the studies they teach you how to combat others through their distorted teaching. If you try and ask her to a sunday service (even though she's still worldly) she will combat it with her Sabbath study. She may get angry or just stop talking to you if you continue to invite her to your church. We were taught very early on about other churches being demon possessed, and the damnation of Sunday worship.
You do you
all I asked was for consideration of the idea that, perhaps, some of the criticism is glib and cements people in, in.
btw, you're not really bringing anything new to the table. cults are full of hypocrisy say-one-thing-do-another, flawed logic, etc.
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