- Topic
Just curious about a couple of things.
Just before I left WMS in 2013, my 'zion' in Perth, Australia was introducing 2 new rules.
One was a rule for all members to follow a scheduled set of specific prayer times for each and every day.
The other was a scheme to change the way we adressed each other. It was a new rule that would make us start speaking to each other in Korean. So instead of saying 'brother' and 'sister' in English to each other, we had to try and learn to use Korean. Also, the deacon and deaconess were no longer 'brother' and 'sister' to us. We had to call them by their titles AND learn to say it in Korean.
Did this happen to anyone else or was it just in my 'zion'?
This didn’t happen where I was. After hearing this, and similar things, I honestly think things varied from “Zion to Zion” and some rules were upto the Overseer. I do remember when it became ok, to wear your shoes in the Sanctuary.
When we received our Korean Overseer, he chastised us about how often we didn’t bow. To me at the time, it seemed like just a reestablishment of the rules. We also were told it was disrespectful to leave Zion at the end of the night, without stopping into jis office to say goodbye.
@Hyde The “Elohist” magazine painted a picture as if everything was great in other Zions. When I would read them it always seemed like other “Zions” and members were much more heartfelt and sincere than myself. Maybe this was the plan of leadership
My zion was different. We never spoke korean. We addressed members with their titles. My overseer seemed poor. He didn't have very much, which was okay. But he didn't treat other members well who had better circumstances. He caused a lot of members to leave. The door was always revolving. I guess in his head he wanted everything to be the same. Our zion was more relaxed up front.
Every zion is different.
We always wore our shoes. At Untouchable, did you guys wear only socks during worship?
Hyde wrote:
Just curious about a couple of things.
Just before I left WMS in 2013, my 'zion' in Perth, Australia was introducing 2 new rules.
One was a rule for all members to follow a scheduled set of specific prayer times for each and every day.
The other was a scheme to change the way we adressed each other. It was a new rule that would make us start speaking to each other in Korean. So instead of saying 'brother' and 'sister' in English to each other, we had to try and learn to use Korean. Also, the deacon and deaconess were no longer 'brother' and 'sister' to us. We had to call them by their titles AND learn to say it in Korean.
Did this happen to anyone else or was it just in my 'zion'?
The schedule of three times a day for praying has been used in the Chicago Zion for years. My son was doing that probably as early as 2010, but other hard core members were probably doing it before then. He had to pray at like 9, 3, and 8 every day. He had to pray (and still does as far as I know) every time he got into his car to drive as well. I think it is another method to keep them under mind control, constantly thinking about "Mother" and praying to her.
I've heard of members saying that even if they were late to work, they had to pull over to the side of the road and pray.
Pray before you drive a car? That is alittle much I think. I don't remember seeing that done. Did JohnF do that? ( he mentioned driving alot).
When I was in South Korean we would always be in public places during prayer time. We were in a large group standing and talking and then prayer time arrived. All of a sudden the group got silent, still, and prayed quietly. It felt like a strange calming effect. Group prayer time had caught me off guard. I think it was for appearances.
In our zion here in Mumbai India ,we were not allowed to visit other zion for worship without the pastors permission .Reason given was so that we would receive a warm welcome when we go there and we will be treated well,but latar I realized it was not true it was because they did not want the members to gossip and pass information about the corrupt activities in their zion.So when a member from other zion came to our zion the large group leader was appointed to keep watch with who the members are talking to.Just like when you visit Korea you will have all the Korean overseers eyes poping on members to see what tey eat drink and talk to one another.For example,no Local zion member will talk to you from Korea when you visit them.Even if we see a member from korea who has visted India before you will see that member is being watched by other Korean overseers and will be interrupted like bredder i think you need to take rest we will meet again ,it is time for Mother to come.Even here they tried their best in our zion to use the Korean titles but it was objected because of our culture but latter afterI left they started using the Korean titles ,we were forced to scream amen when a prayer or sermon was given or said.Bredder were not allowed to talk to sisters or meet out and if seen or heard of the pastor would ask the leaders to find out what going on,we were strickly told not to share our Phone numbers with brothers.So much so today in our Mumbai zion brothers are in a separate room for worship and eating food no contact at all with sisters.borrowing money from one another is restricted,but is done on a quite looking at missionary in zion 2 and decon who are heads in zion 1.
The Prayer times were based on the service time changes, based on the Feasts. The evenong services held at WMS don’t correlate to a evening prayertime, therefor correlating to only 2 required prayertimes. I still NEVER heard a clear explanation on how and why the prayer times change. Now, when it came to the explanatiom OF the prayer times, they referenced a Scripture in Acts, when Peter had the vision and revelation about food, it says that Peter was on thr roof at the, “hour of prayer”. Now, thats “one” hour. If anybody knows if the Jews keep more than one prayer time, please elaborate. This more or less, simply appears like WMS emulating certain Old Testament requirments and omitting others.
My son had to pray several times a day, and yes, even when he got in his car to drive. He also had to pray before a meal. Some of this is for show, as Mike and Mayor said, but some of it is also because of the fact that mind control doesn't work unless it is applied consistently. This is just another way to get them to always have their mind on "Mother."
There is absolutely no flexibility on prayer times, either. They all have to pray at the same exact time all over the U.S., according to one of their deacons.
I asked this same deacon how that works with the Sabbath then, because they aren't celebrating Sabbath at exactly the same time all over the world. I told him since Korea is in a completely different time zone, they couldn't be keeping Sabbath on the same time schedule. So why the emphasis and complete rigidity on time? He said he'd get back to me because that was a good question. But he never did, of course.
Hyde wrote:
Is this repetitive study going on in other ‘zions’?
That "study" technique is the basis for forcibly implanting the cult message. It is a technique used in many other cults as well, not just WMSCOG. It was definitely used on our child. We heard our child "witness"on several occasions, clearly regurgitating the bile forced in. In the early years we encouraged our child to do so … so that we could try and understand what fecal matter was being implanted by the Koreans. Sometimes this "learned" witness diatribe would last 15 minutes or so, complete with many "Bible" passages (all completely out of historical context) supporting the B.S. that was "learned". We don't encourge this any longer as the "witnessing" became quite repetitive, for reasons you have clearly pointed out above.
In our infrequent meetings now with our child we only allow for discussions of a personal nature, such as "did you file your taxes?", or "how's the job going". That's it.
Hyde wrote:
I was told that by praying on these times, 'mother' would hear you in Korea. I also saw the 'bother's' pray before and after driving. They would do it all the time. On sabbaths, the men were kept separate from the women and children for study. I was in the men's youth group. We did repetitive preaching to each other from one of 3 ASH sermon books. We did this for most of the day and the night and I have to point out that these are not thick books, they are actually very thin.
Myself and others were stuck with sermon book 1 for at least a year before we could earn the next one. We could earn it by getting signatures from other members, so we would preach to each other whenever we could. On sabbath day we preached all day and night in our groups. It was always the same presentations of some very basic ASH sermons. We were told by our deacon to preach sermons to each other exactly word for word as written by ASH. Anything else was our own interpretation and that was forbidden because it was ungodly.
During a sermon presentation, the less you had to look at an ASH book and the more you could just rely on your memory, the more praise that would come your way. So ‘brothers’ would study hard to memorise the chapters and verses out of the ASH sermon books. Also if you couldn’t regurgitate the ASH books, then you needed to study harder for more ’blessings’. This meant more repetitious memorising. The deacon said we had to teach exactly the way the ASH books did because our own interpretations were apparently dangerous. I don't think learning the bible through repetition of the same basic sermons is a good habit. It’s just brainwashing really. Seems obvious now but I got sucked in then without realising it.
Is this repetitive study going on in other ‘zions’?
It's going on in every Zion. And of course, they aren't learning the Bible. They are learning from the ASH books. They supplant the Bible with a Korean man's book. They will most likely supplant the Bible with all of Joo Cheol Kim's books soon when/if he becomes the new deity. That of course, is my opinion. But to me, it looks like they are already positioning. Same process, just a different Korean man to follow.
@Untouchable the location I was at said the prayer time changes due to time changing. The sun rises later in the fall so prayer time is later.
@Mayor sorry I missed your question. Yes, before they changed that, we had shelves where members put their shoes in, like cubbies. We were told that “They do it like this in Korea”. Reading some info on this site, it seems AHN had members in the early church do this as a rule? Anyway, it seems from all the statements here , WMS has a fragmented system. One “Zion” can vary greatly from the rest. Also during meals, our first two Overseers, sat with us, anywhere along the long tables we had set up. When we got our Korean Overseer, he sat at the Head of the Brothers table, and it then became rude to eat before he sat down with you.
Is that correct? You guys really got your Korea on. Did you and your family do away with you beds and sleep on mats? Or you never went that far?
That's right do not eat before an older member. No pointing, it's very rude. And shake with your second hand holding your right hand.
@Mayor It seemed like it for a while. Although members weren’t forced to, we also kept a large container full of chopsticks. No mats, but the “Heavenly culture”, is simply Korean/Asian culture nothing more. A Korean overseer would be more upset at you Not bowing, if you shook hands. It seemed the Larger Zion in the tristate area had more strict codes for “sisters” dress. They dressed like Mormon missionaries…drab. Most of them that is. No high heels, no skirts near, or above the knee. No dyed hair, very safe attire. We would still have some members in platforms, fitted skirts and stockings with exotic patterns.
I couldn't imagine heavenly culture within my home. In Korea they gave us mats to sleep on. I don't mind the culture differences. And I'm okay with a dress code. Going to church should have a good standard. I'm okay with that as long as it doesn't get out of control. Pun intended. Did you notice they had a males first mindset?
@Mayor Yes. We ate first. We also had seperate stairs in the first building. Once I went up, via the womens stairs. A “sister” quickly checked me on it. I agree, church should have clothing standards, but anything trendy, they seemed to be afraid of.
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