- Topic
I'm bringing you another example of the misleadings of the WMSCOG.
They teach their members that the idol worship of the Bronze Snake in the Old Testament is exactly the same as modern day churches and their portrayal of the Cross. The WMS has a video that they play for their members which like every other teaching they have picks and chooses the scriptures that make their point for them.
The first scripture mentioned is Numbers 21:8 The Lord said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." This seems a little strange by itself until you look at the total context of why Moses was tasked to do this. The people had been complaining, the Lord sent serpents (vs. 6) people were bitten and many died. (vs.7) The people realized their sin and repented! God then has the Bronze Snake made showing His love and compassion. Makes more sense when you read everything you're supposed to include with vs.8 doesn't it?
The next scriptural reference in the video is 2Kings 18:3-7. This documents the destruction of the Bronze Snake after the children of Isreal started using it as Idol Worship. King Hezekiah destroyed the sculpture and the WMSCOG wants everyone to believe that God blessed hin for the rest of his reign because of this act. Here's the rub! In verse 3 it tells us why King Hezekiah was blessed. It's because he did what was right in the sight of the Lord! In verse 4 it tells us that King Hezekiah broke a lot more than just the Bronze Snake. He also removed the high place where the children of Isreal were burning incense, broke the sacred pillars, and cut down the wooden images. The WMS wants everyone to believe that it was the destruction of the Bronze Snake that made God bless Hezekiah. WRONG! The WMSCOG also wants to make direct coorelations between wooden images, bronze snake, and the Cross of Jesus. Talk about a vile streach of misdirection! Lets go on shall we? The video puts a slide in view that reads, "The churches, which set up the Cross, will be destroyed. Dt 27:15" Now, I took the time to read as you should Dt 27:15 and I can tell you for fact that it never mentions the Cross at all! It does talk about setting up images in secret. Every Christian church that I have been to surely has not set up the Cross in secret! There are a bunch of pictures in the WMSCOG as well as teachings that are kept very secret. Why is it that their god the father and god the mother are not posted publically like the Christian Cross is? I could go on and on with just this part.
I wanted to add a little bit here. I did a big WMS no no and read the next verse (Dt. 27:16). "Cursed is the one who treats his father or his mother with contempt." I have heard way too many first hand accounts of mothers and fathers that have been completely disrespected by their children because of the things they are taught at the WMSCOG.
Moving on, in the finally of this video the producers flash up Rev. 18:4 with a saying, "Come out of her, my people so that you will not share in her sins. so that you will not recieve and of her plagues." Again, I read the verse and it has been completely misquoted. Rev. 18 talks about the fall of Babylon and nothing about churches with Crosses on them. Now we all know that the WMSCOG teaches that all other churches are supposedly Babylon. This is another overserved piece of _____. There is a whole sermon that can be done on how this cannot be accurate. You can even go through my collected works on this website and find information proving this idea wrong.
For a time I did studies with the WMSCOG and even then the false teachings were obvious. STOP LETTING THE WMSCOG MISLEAD PEOPLE! They are blaitantly lying to people and as they themselves teach, the father of lies is Satan so if they are willingly participating in this then they are following Satan. May God truly bless you and open your eyes to the truth. It's not hard to see if you're looking for it!
The problem with idol worship is analogous to a magician. The magician says look over here at my right hand. Meanwhile, the left hand is doing the "magic". Idol worship is much the same. As Joshua points out with God & the bronze snake, it is initially looked at as something associated with God. Later on people have forgotten God's part and simply worship the snake idol.
We could reasonably argue that fear is idol worship. We, in the mainstream, no longer think for ourselves. Turn on the news and the terror alert is at a new all time high. Another holiday came and went with no terror attacks (physical terror attacks, that is; the real "terror attack" was us scaring ourselves). We no longer think about how our rights as citizens are eroding to a phantom menace of the boogie man around every corner.
Given that, and if we accept it, are we in the mainstream hypocritical for our criticism of this church and its membership for essentially the same behavior exhibited in mainstream life?
I do think there are some people who are paranoid about terrorists, the government, the end of the world, etc. But for most, I think they understand that what "sells" is negative news. That is why the bad news outweighs the good news by about 80%. I can't speak for everyone else on this forum, but I am critical of the WMS because of their "techniques". They manipulate the members in every aspect of their lives.
I recently watched Steve Hassan on CNN in an interview with several other people who were speaking out about Scientology. All were talking about how controlling Scientology is and how it took some members (like film maker Paul Haggis) 30 years to even LOOK at any negative comments/stories made by ex-members towards Scientology. If you watched the documentary or looked at the quotes that I pulled from the film on a previous post, you will notice that Paul asks himself that question – Why did it take me so long?! The point that Steve Hassan brought up that everyone else skipped over was mind control.
How would you know if you were under mind control?
When the only thing you do outside the group is to work at a job (to give money to support the church) and you don't associate with anyone on the outside, including family – they are controlling your life. They manipulate the person and their thinking on a constant basis even when they are not with the group (work or asleep at night).
I'll give you an example: one of the members of WMS has cut off communication with their family. This member starts communicating again with their family – unknown to the WMS. Someone finds out in the church and tells the pastor. This member is "counseled" about communicating with their family:
WMS – Do you remember that they persecuted you when you first told them you were choosing the church?
Member – Yes
WMS – Can you trust them to not speak negative against father and mother like they have done in the past? You remember they tried to tell you this was a cult. Have they changed their point of view? Do they still attend church on Sunday? You once considered them apostates. How has that changed? Are you willing to take the chance that they won't disrespect mother and father?
Member – They haven't changed.
The member then sends a message to their parents telling them they can't see them for a while. Their busy and will let them know when they can meet up.
Mission accomplished by WMS! The member thinks they made the decision on their own, but in reality the church manipulated the member into doing exactly what they wanted the member to do. Manipulation of the mind. They control it – not the member!
The book I recommend to further understand this type of mind control and manipulation is "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism" by Robert Jay Lifton.
The chapter where I found the most similarities with WMS is chapter 14, "The Revolutionary University: Mr. Hu." It's about a young college student who gets recruited to join the communist party as the communists are taking over the universities in China. He is swept up in the excitment of the movement, attends lectures all day, moves in with his comrades, departs from his upbringing of capitalism and believes everyone who doesn't believe the way he does should either change or be eliminated.
WMS members get recruited, get caught up in the excitement of the "end of the world and being one of the chosen ones going to heaven," attend Bible studies and church constantly, the youth leave home and move in with other members, they depart their upbrining and believe that anyone who doesn't become a member is going to hell. They cut ties with their family and the outside world (except to recruit of course). Same outcome – Mind Control!
So while you compare WMS to the mainstream "the boogie man around every corner" – I can think for myself and be cautious but not filled with fear. I celebrated the 4th of July and never once thought of terriorism! On the other hand if the pastor says the world is coming to an end in 2012 – they believe it – and THEN believe the excuse as to why it didn't happen. Don't ask questions – just believe what you are told. Mind control!
Lifton is ok but the power is in an understanding of milieu control, which is to say those with whom one associates with. Hu is a good example, if I recall correctly, that when he was outside of the influence of his comrades their influence wore thin.
Thus, IMHO, there is absolutely no such thing as mind control.
As you mentioned scientology, watch Beghe. He's not only entertaining (he's an actor; but also, caution: he swears a lot), he talks of the self imprisonment, so to speak, that imprisons people – yes, with the mind. However, my point in comparing to main stream life is not completely analogous. It is, however, applicable because humans are seemingly prone to certain things that some groups will exploit, or over-focus on, which then in turn keeps people associating within the same circles. Which is a pretty good reason to cut off from those who are disagreable to the group and its doctrine, don't you think?
Sure, in scientology "thought-stopping" is taught under another name* and is for one's advancement along the bridge…which then said thought stopping comes in handy when the time comes to humour criticism against the group long enough to cut off and disassociate from the PTS. I still don't believe this is accurate to refer to this as mind control, but I do see the argument for it. Which is the most salient point: either one sees, objectively, the other side of the argument or one does not.
Failing to acknowledge, even at the most minor of levels, the other side of an argument or issue happens all day, every day, all over the world. Humans just do it. So-called mind control just adds a few dashes of spices to the mix to add one more level to overcome hearing the other side*.
My biggest beef with the term mind control is that when people inside these groups hear the term, I think – and I'm open to hearing views on it, they're like, 'no one tells me what to do'. Further, it seems to me that if one believes that one is of the chosen then the term would be very offensive and very likely to be rejected, along with the person saying it. Further, the use of it seems to assume that it only happens inside these types of groups (more specifically the group that the member is in) and that IMHO is simply wrong which is why I point out the mainstraem.
*example at 7:20 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D0lvlwOFQY . So innocently and deceptively done. But he's geniune about the associations he has with other members. Any perceived attacks towards the group will hit the emotions, not the brain and logic. = no such thing as mind control unless we are to examine the definition of the term as an understanding of the human animal and then the seeking to exploit it in such a way as to gain an advantage over man. And if that is our definition, then, on the macro level, the mainstream population is at the very least numb to the war on terrorism and its extravagant costs because of the catalyst, fear. Just watch them sell it to their sides between now and November of 2016. That being said, we are probably closer to being on the same page about the term mind control, now that I have re-read your example of member-family-mission-accomplished.
I'm arguing at the end by pulling Ms Freedoms definition into what I described. So, I hijacked her definition into mine until it is disputed otherwise.
There is no such thing as mind control unless we are to examine the definition of the term as an understanding of the human animal and then the seeking to exploit it in such a way as to gain an advantage over man.
It seems to me that the term is used in the active sense but I argue that in reality it is very passive and pervasive. There is a very big difference between active and passive. That difference, once interpreted, has an affect on how so-called mind control is perceived. And, isn't this about putting things in such a way as to help those that are under its influence?
I very much appreciate the dialogue and respect your opinion. I do agree that although I believe mind control exists and you don't, I do believe that we are closer on our opinions than further apart. I like it that you have done research and read Lipton's book. You are correct that Hu began to think more for himself when not around his peers; that also happened to most of the people profiled in the book. I believe there were only 2 that continued to think that communism was a good thing.
I also agree with you on Behe! Crazy guy – very funny with quite the mouth! "What was the question?"
I think that maybe we differ on the "term" used to describe the control. I call it mind control, some call it brainwashing, others refer to it as the cultic influence and undue influence. Whatever the term, I believe that everyone has experienced it in their life. Of course the scale is extremely wide – some having been influenced very little and others under full control. Religion is a perfect example of this. This group uses control to the extreme, but all religions/faith use it. Example: if you don't accept Jesus you are going to hell; Karma will bring back to you what you have put out in the world, whether good of bad; if you believe the prophet Joseph Smith and accept the Book of Mormon, you will be given your own planet; if you complete all the levels in Scientology you will be "clear" and be able to read people's minds; mother is frail and father is on his way to take us to heaven, etc.
When people believe and accept these teachings as truth, and adjust their behavior based on it, they are being controlled (and you can use whatever term you want).
As you pointed out, the same is true in politics. Of course there is truth on both sides but each side will try to make you think that ONLY their side is correct and 100% honest and factual. We are already seeing huge divides between the 2 parties. Of course the media has a large part in this division. "I saw in on _____(fill in the blank of your favorite news station) so it must be the truth!" People are trusting that this person selling their opinion has their best interest at heart – when it is all about winning you over to support their cause. The same is the goal of WMSCOG.
I did have an eye-opening moment when reading your post. When using the terms "mind-control" and "brainwashing" they are triggers for the members and will turn off when hearing those terms. So from now on I will just refer to it as control.
I guess because of my loved-one's membership in this group, I have seen the control with my own eyes. Fear – that they will be influenced by Satan, that they will be reprimanded, that they will disappoint mother, that the world is out to get them and they must keep all information a secret, if you leave the group, horrible things will happen to you, etc. Phobia implantation – a really good way of controlling them (if you are not a good girl, Santa won't bring you presents).
So in the end – I still believe in mind control because as you stated – in the case of WMSCOG, the human animals (otherwise known as the Korean leaders) are seeking to exploit it in such a way as to gain control over their members. Thanks for that great definition! – and the great dialogue!
@ms freedom…… this is by far the most intelligent and inspirational post that i have ever seen here..
So as to not hijack this thread,
Specious is a good word to describe what happens in these environments:
idol worship
magic
scams
because while one thing seems to be happening, in reality another is happening. The victim is, by definition, ignorant. Sometimes victims are the subjects of previous victims, who are still ignorant.
Here's an example: a video in the specious name of protection that cloaks the terms of what information reaches membership, thereby assuring prolonged membership into what some people may refer to as a scam.
Specious:
superficially plausible, but actually wrong
misleading in appearance, especially misleadingly attractive
@What is truth – thank you. Always trying to help people see a different perspective.
@nohandle – Awesome word! This fits exactly into the WMSCOG situation.What I have found in my research of controlling groups is that in a lot of cases, the victims of course don't see themselvs as victims. They are as you say – ignorant. The sad thing is that many of them wish to stay ignorant. They really WANT to believe this is real so they don't seek out any opposing thoughts, opinions or experiences.
When one of my children was told that Santa wasn't real, they asked, "Why did you tell me?" In other words, it was my fault for exposing the truth that they did not want to know. They perferred to live in the fairytale of "believing" that Santa was real. I find it so in the WMSCOG members. They really want to believe this woman is god and therefore choose to remain ignorant.
I hear you, Ms Freedom.
I would beg to differ on the wanting, per se – wanting to remain ignorant/believe this is real. Consider the following. Let's assume that Islam is the way to go – let's just assume that in full. Are we seeking out thoughts, opinions, or experiences towards that end? Unlikely, and by unlikely I mean the simply seeking out portion no matter what structure we substitute in our example as we bring it back to real life examples. People deny they are alcoholics, they deny that their friend, spouse, or boy/girlfriend is not into them as much as the other way around. In short, we all do some self deception and justifiy it. We put on our proverbial rose-colored glasses and we should pay attention to that metaphor – we see the world through a lens that makes sense to us, but like the fish that doesn't know it is in water we do not realize the color of the lens we are wearing because we have no other barometer to compare with because the colors we see are the normal colors of our world. Those who know human behavior capitalize on the information monopoly and utilize fear and other tactics….in a specious way….to get followers to self-police. This new lense makes sense, as does that crazy love feeling I alluded to when talking about boy/girlfriend/spouse relationships. Certainly it is normal behavior to react acrimoniously when someone essentially calls us crazy. I guess I'm an advocate of analyzing so-called cult behavior as more normal than most people would view those behaviors.
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