"If you knew the scriptures"

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  • #6959
    Moved-Comment
    Participant

    On 10/02/2012, the following comment was left by an anonymous visitor on the article Who Is Zahng Gil Jah? and has been moved here for further discussion:

    If you knew the scriptures and prophecies then you would know them, but you obviously don’t. Is it too hard to believe that God Almighty came in the flesh? Then you must not believe in Jesus Christ either and must deny him also, the same way the Israelites did. Study the scriptures and you will see the truth, God Bless you.

     

  • #47818

    Cephas' Brother
    Participant

    If you read the website, then you would know that Genny does know the scriptures. She also knows about the mind control tactics, the deceptive recruiting, and the outright lies being told to you. But obviously you haven't. Or perhaps you have, and you're so indoctrinated that you can't even fathom that a group who makes none of it's literature public, fundamentally alters the secret books they do have, and predicts the end of the world would ever lie to you. THINK! For the love of god, open your mind.

    #47819

    Joshua
    Participant

    How many times have members of this group posted, "If you knew the scriptures and prophecies then … blah, blah, blah,…" Please do some research outside of this group and away from anyones influence. As you place some distance between Gods truth and what others are telling you is the truth you will start realizing that the groups "truth" is heavily flawed. This group uses their "truth" to keep you in bondage while they tell you, "We are of the free woman." Example: What is free about the veil? They show you in the bible that women should cover their head when they pray and worship however, if you read further it states that if God blessed you with a full head of hair it is as a covering. This group would have you believe that you are to cover up a blessing of God. Do they know the scriptures? Answer: NO How can you expect these people to give you guidance threw the scriptures when they don't even know them and follow them? God gave you a mind and he expects you to use it! Start doing your own research! Challenge everything! Find the truth for the truth will set you free!

    Just a thought: You might want to start where they usually start. Study about the Sabbath. Look at what happened after the resurrection. Find out for yourself if Constantine really abolished the Sabbath. What you have been taught by this group will not stand up to the truth. Good luck, now go free yourself from this bondage!

    #47820

    KC
    Participant

    i dont really memorize bible verses or anything but im sure theres no part in the bible that says zhang is the bride and please drop the "its a secret knowledge" act, if its a secret then why do you cogs telling everybody about it? secret supposed to be secret, right?

    #47821

    Cephas' Brother
    Participant

    Hal, as it pertains to their teachings I think that does make you smarter than the cogs. Especially when they run around touting their “secret knowledge” about the word Elohim, the law, the feasts, etc. Having someone on the board that can give insight into the original language and culture of the frauds these people perpetrate is invaluable.

    #47822

    Simon
    Participant

    I don't think anyone in this group who believes in God thinks it is impossible for God to come in the flesh, I am not sure what Hal believes on this topic Jews seem to be mixed on whether it is possible to happen although I have met few Jews who would say it has happened.

    #47823

    KF
    Participant

    if you don't believe in the messiah, why do you spell GOD like this G-d, what are you afraid of, you seem to not believe in anything, so why do you feel you can't say GOD'S NAME.

    [this line modded by admin to comply with rules]

    #47824

    Simon
    Participant

    I was speaking more ability than likelihood

    #47825

    Joshua
    Participant

    Hal, I try not to be offensive to you and the beliefs that you have. We share the same belief of Jehova which gives us a common place in which to talk to each other. I'm not sure how to help you or others like you that have friends or loved ones in this group when a basis for the beliefs of this group is a elementary understanding of Jesus as the Christ. When making the compairison of Ahn and Jesus it's obvious that Ahn could not be Jesus but you constantly argue about not recognizing Jesus. If you take Jesus out of this I don't understand how you can make the argument that Ahn is not the reencarnated Jesus Christ. Seems like you keep shooting yourself in the foot and the effort you take to argue with others who are fighting against the lies of the WMS seems like wasted effort. You don't recognize Jesus, ok, I get it. Difficult for me to understand but I get that you don't believe. Please stop arguing points that make the efforts of the people trying to help seem less effective. If we don't stand together we will fall alone. You have been effected by this group. Please help with the fight or get out of the way.

    #47826

    Cephas' Brother
    Participant

    Joshua, as you could probably tell by my post above I have a wholly different opinion of Hal's contributions to the board and the "fight" as it were. You said " When making the compairison of Ahn and Jesus it's obvious that Ahn could not be Jesus but you constantly argue about not recognizing Jesus. If you take Jesus out of this I don't understand how you can make the argument that Ahn is not the reencarnated Jesus Christ."

    To me, "if christ be not risen.."(1 Cor 15:14) then it would be absurd to say that ASH was the 2nd coming of the messiah. A lie built upon a lie. That's how you make the argument. Hal's posted the scriptures he believes disqualifies Jesus as messiah at least a few times here. I can understand his position. I personally don't believe in Jesus, but I do believe in a creator or divine presence that we feebly describe as "God". I think that it's beyond mankind's ability to comprehend an omnipotent, omniscient consciousness. Not exactly a Jew, but Hal's words here have helped me to see into a culture I have limited knowledge of, and I think they're another good weapon in the arsenal against the cog's teachings. 

    I tell you this about myself not to sit here and argue about wether or not there was a Jesus, but to show that the more discussion we have about this group, it's teachings and the scriptures, the better. You said it, "if we don't stand together we will fall alone." I think we're doing a pretty good job of that around here. Standing together, having an open and friendly discourse about how the WMSCOG has affected us all. 

    You were the first person besides the admin to reply to my very first post here, and I remember every word you wrote. Reading that gave me hope and strength when I felt like I had none. I'm sure Hal's have done the same for others. I'd hate to deprive anyone of that because he wasn't around. 

    May whatever God there is, bless you my brother. 

    #47827

    KF
    Participant

    Hal wrote:

    KF wrote:

    if you don't believe in the messiah, why do you spell GOD like this G-d, what are you afraid of, you seem to not believe in anything, so why do you feel you can't say GOD'S NAME.

    [this line modded by admin to comply with rules]

     Because G-d is above all that we know. We should respect G-d. for G-d created us and G-d can take away. No one alone can judge us but G-d.

     

    Hal wrote:

    KF wrote:

    if you don't believe in the messiah, why do you spell GOD like this G-d, what are you afraid of, you seem to not believe in anything, so why do you feel you can't say GOD'S NAME.

    [this line modded by admin to comply with rules]

     Because G-d is above all that we know. We should respect G-d. for G-d created us and G-d can take away. No one alone can judge us but G-d.

     your absoultley right GOD is above all and we should and need to respect him and yes no one can judge us but our creator, but i was just asking you a couple of questions to try and understand your thinking, but why do you not believe that he came as the son of man Jesus.  You have the O.T. it testifys of his coming.  Where in the bible does it say you can not say God's name, then how are you suppose to pray to him? again these are just questions, please do not get offended.

    #47828

    genny
    Participant

    Hal, I like your quote, "Anybody who calls themself God is a liar" — it's true in all cases but one.  If it's God calling Himself God, then He is not a liar. ๐Ÿ™‚

    I have to agree with both Joshua and Cephas' Brother above. 

    I appreciate hearing a Jewish perspective, and if the WMSCOG are so interested in keeping the feasts, sabbath, etc, it's useful to know that they are different than you might expect.

    On the other hand, if you are trying to turn the wmscog away from their false gods, you've got much more to tackle if you are trying to take both Ahn / Zahng AND Jesus away.  Just like if you were an atheist, it would be even harder to try to take away Ahn / Zahng and Jesus AND God.

    It's also helpful to try to see things from their perspective too as much as possible, because then you can see how their teachings don't even match up with their own teachings.  (Hmmm.  Did that sound confusing?)  You don't have to discredit Jesus and the New Testament to discredit Ahn and Zahng.  Accepting Jesus and the New Testament as truth will itself show Ahn and Zahng as false.

    Even if you don't believe in Jesus, Hal, you might meet a member halfway with a hypothetical (for you), "If the New Testament is true, it does not match with wmscog teaching."

    It's the same way I looked at the prophecies the members were showing me.  If the prophecy was as they say, it still doesn't point to Ahn as the one and only fulfillment.  And the same with the feasts, If it was required to keep the feasts exactly right, they still aren't doing it right (according to their own rules).  It's like this with many of their teachings…

    #47829

    Simon
    Participant

    Genny is right on there about the if blank is true.

    #47830

    Simon
    Participant

    Actually for the record I said a woman isn't bound to her unbelieving husband if he leaves her.  But I've realised reasons why that would not apply here, but that is a different thread just wanted to clarify. 

    #47831

    Simon
    Participant

    when I was brainwashed yeah… lol

    #47832

    genny
    Participant

    Hi Hal.  I know we disagree about Jesus, but at least we agree about Ahnsahnghong. ๐Ÿ™‚

    I do have a question.  You keep mentioning that Daniel was not a prophet.  I was just wondering how Judaism categorizes Daniel then, since he did receive revelation from God.

    Also, it seems that you do not understand the way Christianity looks at the objections you have.  I really think you should read some of Michael Brown's material (http://www.amazon.com/Michael-L.-Brown/e/B001IZVFFU/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_2?qid=1350499594&sr=8-2).  Even if you don't agree with it, I think it may help with some of the confusion.  Maybe you can find it at the library to borrow, or here is some online http://realmessiah.askdrbrown.org/

    As I write this, I think of the parallel.  We don't agree with the wmscog's interpretation of things, but if we can see where they are coming from we can understand them better.  Meeting them at a place of understanding should help us better move them toward the truth.

    About the feasts, if there was an issue with the translation of that word, ok, but "feast" is still related to "fest" and "festival."  Does that word work for you, even if the connotation is a slight bit different?  "Feast of trumpets" is not "eating trumpets" but "festival days associated with the blowing of the trumpets."  Or "tabernacle" and "booth" (Sukkot) — are they close enough?  If we can find ways to agree on as much as possible, we can stop arguing about little things and move on to addressing more significant things, from a point of understanding where they are comming from.  For example, if keeping the "festival days associated with the blowing of the trumpets" is so important to a wmscog member (according to their understanding), shouldn't they be worried that the wmscog messed up the timing of it in 2005, 2008, and 2010? (https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1MsoweMAuX9TFiNpzg6Oi2d1CERWFyrqwHp183-H_G9U)

    I don't mean to offend you, Hal, and I'm not trying to stop you from speaking your mind.  I'm just looking for effective ways for us all to get our points across.

    #47833

    genny
    Participant

    Thanks for the explanation, Hal.

    You said, "Iam familiar with the "messianic judasim" but they are Christian, no jew identifies with being apart of a believer in the Jesus."

    I beg to differ on this point.  One of my friends is a Messianic Jew.  Maybe we have a different definition of this.  She's not a Christian who likes Jewish traditions.  She's Jewish by race/culture, and she believes in Jesus as the Messiah.

    #47834

    genny
    Participant

    Hal, I can see from your Jewish perspective that you would no longer consider my friend Jewish but Christian.  However from her perspective, she is both Jewish and Christian.

    It's not quite a perfect analogy, but it's kind of like an immigrant who is considered a citizen of both their new country and their original country.  Say you have a German immigrating to Canada, embracing their new country, but still identifying with the old.  They would call themselves both Canadian and German.  Should their fellow Germans say that this person is no longer German?

    Relating this to the wmscog…

    The wmscog has (basically) added to Christianity.  From the mainstream Christian perspective, we consider the wmscog to be false Christians because they have added wrongly.  From the wmscog perspective, they consider mainstream Christians to be false Christians, not just missing something, but more fundamentally false (from what I understand).

    There is a difference with Messianic Judaism.

    Christianity has (basically) added to Judaism.  From the traditional Jewish perspective, they consider Messianic Jews to be false Jews (is that a correct description?) because they have added wrongly (Jewish perspective).  From the Messianic Jewish perspective, they still consider traditional Jews to be true Jews, but missing something.  (Messianic Jews sometimes refer to themselves as "completed Jews.")

    I'm not sure if it's useful to keep discussing this in a forum about Ahnsahnghong, but we could keep going if you see a benefit.  Maybe in a new topic?  The only thing I would be concerned about in this setting is that I don't want my defense of Jesus to be taken as a defense of Ahnsahnghong too.  As long as that's clear, I don't mind continuing.

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