- Topic
This addresses lies and New Jerusalem:
In Matthew 5:33-37 Jesus taught:
Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord." But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is His footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make make even one hair white or black. Simply let your "Yes" be "Yes," and your "No" be "No"; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
If you have been encouraged by your group to lie either outright or by ommission know now that this comes from the evil one. Have you been encouraged to not tell people what group you really represent? Have you been told that there are righteous of harmless lies? You are following the one you think you are not. Satan is leading you and lies are the proof of this truth.
Simply let your "Yes" be "Yes," and your "No" be "No"; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Isa 44:11"apart from me there is no other savior" But there is another savior and he Is Jesus. Tell me did Jehovah lie?
Jesus isn't another saviour he's the same saviour
renita.payno wrote:
KF wrote:
Genny I love what you said and I agree with you 110% ๐ two thumbs up!
You know how people say "What's done in the dark comes to the light"? I was wondering if there is a verse in the bible about it. So I started browsing through Scripture and came across this.. Pro 11:13 A trustworthy person keeps a secret. With-holding information is keeping a secret. Jesus told the Disciples to keep a secret, not to lie. A trustworthy person is not someone who lies. So lying and with-holding information are not the same thing. Pro 12:22 God hates lying lips but not those who are trustworthy. .. But when we cross these 2 verses we can see that lying and with-holding information is not the same because God cannot hate lying but then call it a trustworthy thing.
False comparative. As one is witholding information with express intent to deceive where as the Proverb is not
genny wrote:
Imagine my child asks me for money to buy a treat at the store, and you know I have some in my wallet. If I say, "No. I don't have any money." You can call that a lie. If I say, "I don't have any money for that." You cannot call that a lie. You might think it is because you know there's money in my wallet, but you don't know that I need that money for groceries on the way home, therefore the statement is true.
First, I have to make a correction. This was not a good example after all because "for that" could be implied. Here's a better one: I leave my son home alone with instructions that if he answers the phone he should not tell anyone that I am out and that he's alone. When he answers the phone and the person says, "Is your mom there?" He can still obey and tell the truth by saying, "She's not available, can I take a message?" If I had told him to say, "Yes, she is but she can't come to the phone." I would have been asking him to lie. There's a difference there.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Actually I didn't miss your point, and what I was talking about was not about the divinity of Ahnsahnghong and Mother but about the way Church of God members teach new comers which has been under critism here about not telling upfront about our belief in Father and Mother, my comment had nothing to do about the fact of their divinty, and even if it did, whether or not you believe in their divinty or not, the members of church of God are not lying to you because they believe in their divinity. I'm not saying that they are not God, but I will give you an example. If a color blind man, who did not know he was color blind said grass is grey, he would not be lying. Also I have no problem with Father saying "there is no Mother God". I remember you told me about the book you read which I really think would be enjoyable to read, but in it you pointed out the fact of the person telling the truth of the people hiding in the home. I think if that's what she felt was right to do and she didn't want to lie to protect them, then that's her right to. But personally even if she lied I believe that is the right thing to do also. I don't see a problem with lying to protect your loved ones or yourself from a life or death situation. You might try to believe God would not condone it, but you don't really know the answer to that 100%. I watched a movie about a psyco who was trying to kill this couple. I remember it vaguely but in it the phsyco ties up the boyfriend, one end to a wall or something and the other to a truck. Then he takes the girlfriend in to the truck with him and he starts moving forward the truck. Now the girl is frantic and begs him to stop and then she grabs for the physco's gun and points it at him but the physco just laughs at her and she ends up not being able to pull the trigger and the boyfriend gets ripped in half. Now you see she didn't have the heart to kill someone. Some people just can't do it. But that's fine not all of us have it in us to pull the trigger even when our loved ones are at risk. But for me I wouldn't think twice about. But you may fell it's wrong to kill someone and you may think even God wouldn't condone it but you don't know that for sure. And I'm not going to say I know the answer but my view point It's ok. I would do the samething. So Father saying that there is no Mother God, I do not fell or believe that takes away his divinity, and just because you feel it does, does not take it away either.
Isa 44:11"apart from me there is no other savior" But there is another savior and he Is Jesus. Tell me did Jehovah lie?
"There is no Mother God."
I'm glad you didn't miss my point then.
I don't know that movie, but if it were me, I would have at least shot out the tires and shot the ties binding the boyfriend.
I may end up lying to protect my loved ones, but God would never lie, and seeing as He is omnipotent and omniscient, there is no need for Him to lie to protect anyone.
If you use Is. 44:11 to say that God lies, then you are contradicting the Bible that God does not lie.
Is. 44:11 is not a lie, as Simon and Renita have already explained. Jesus is not a separate savior.
I understand you to be saying that Ahn did in fact write that there was no mother god, and that you have no problem with God lying. Therein lies your problem–you say that God does lie, when the Bible says He does not, and you therefore put Him on the same level as Satan, the father of lies.
For the wmscog's sake, it would have been better for you to find some way for Ahn's statements of "there is no mother god" to be the truth, then at least you could keep consistent with the Bible about God doesn't lie. Unfortunately, because of the way he wrote that book, if he was telling the truth, then I can't see any way you can maintain the deity of Zahng. You can't have it both ways.
Oh, one more thing… I would have shot the psycho in the legs. ๐
Actually you misunderstood my qoute of isaiah again if u look below that comment i said there is a time for everything. Isaiah says there is no other savior in the NT Jesus says there is noother name, but there is which os jehovah. But these are different ages which make their statements correct. Just as father said there is no mother god, there is a time for things to be revealed and brought to light.
Also I never said God lied go over my posts again
And jerusalm is a building a temple what do we keep saying we are building a temple in heaven. What do you think we r building or have built in heaven, Jerusalem temple. So Father is correct in saying Jerusalem is a temple a building.
Simon wrote:
renita.payno wrote:
KF wrote:
Genny I love what you said and I agree with you 110% ๐ two thumbs up!
You know how people say "What's done in the dark comes to the light"? I was wondering if there is a verse in the bible about it. So I started browsing through Scripture and came across this.. Pro 11:13 A trustworthy person keeps a secret. With-holding information is keeping a secret. Jesus told the Disciples to keep a secret, not to lie. A trustworthy person is not someone who lies. So lying and with-holding information are not the same thing. Pro 12:22 God hates lying lips but not those who are trustworthy. .. But when we cross these 2 verses we can see that lying and with-holding information is not the same because God cannot hate lying but then call it a trustworthy thing.
False comparative. As one is witholding information with express intent to deceive where as the Proverb is not
Simon, I was speaking basically. Adding "intent to deceive" with ANYTHING makes it a sin. BASICALLY SPEAKING, simply with-holding information is not a sin. Keeping a secret with the intent to deceive is bad. But simply keeping a secret is not bad as the Proverb describes. Get your life..
fromtheotherside wrote:
Actually you misunderstood my qoute of isaiah again if u look below that comment i said there is a time for everything. Isaiah says there is no other savior in the NT Jesus says there is noother name, but there is which os jehovah. But these are different ages which make their statements correct. Just as father said there is no mother god, there is a time for things to be revealed and brought to light.
But saying there is no God the Mother when there is is a lie. When Jesus came, the Age of the Son began meaning the name of the Saviour is Jesus. Even though Jehovah and Jesus are the same, Jehovah is no longer a name by which you can be saved, it is Jesus. So you cannot say the name Jehovah could save you after Jesus had come. That arguement in invalid.
Saying God the Mother does not exist when she does is a lie regardless of when it's said. A lie is a statement meant to deceive someone; meant to lead someone to believe something that is not true. ASH wrote a book to convince people that God the Mother does not exist which is not true. You can make excuses for humans but there is no excuse for man.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Also I never said God lied go over my posts again
You said God made a statement that wasn't true which is a lie.
fromtheotherside wrote:
And jerusalm is a building a temple what do we keep saying we are building a temple in heaven. What do you think we r building or have built in heaven, Jerusalem temple. So Father is correct in saying Jerusalem is a temple a building.
You say the Jerusalem is Mother while ASH says that same Jerusalem is nothing more than a place in heaven.
With intent to deceive was the original claim
God is a place?
Yes he said renita and he also said its Mother so really its vice versa
Actually its not an invalid argument. God the Mother was not revelaed at the time so there was no God the Mother, very much a valid argument.
John 1:1-5 and Genesis 1:1-2. My point: In the beginning, the Word, God/Word, Spirit of God. Where is mother?
fromtheotherside wrote:
Actually you misunderstood my qoute of isaiah again if u look below that comment i said there is a time for everything. Isaiah says there is no other savior in the NT Jesus says there is noother name, but there is which os jehovah. But these are different ages which make their statements correct. Just as father said there is no mother god, there is a time for things to be revealed and brought to light.
We have different understandings of that verse in Isaiah. You think that a change in ages makes Isaiah's verse obsolete when Jesus became the savior instead of Jehovah, right? I think that there was no change in 'ages' and that both statements (Is. 44:11 and Acts 4:12) are true at the same time.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Also I never said God lied go over my posts again
For one thing, I remember a conversation we had in another thread, moved here:
https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=4656
From this current thread you said, "Also I have no problem with Father saying "there is no Mother God"" and "So Father saying that there is no Mother God, I do not fell or believe that takes away his divinity, and just because you feel it does, does not take it away either."
If you believe Ahn is God, and you acknowledge that he said there was no mother god, and at the same time you say there is a mother god, then you are saying your god lied, and your comments show you don't have a problem with that. Have I misunderstood you? Then please clarify by answering these questions:
Did Ahn write that there was no mother god? (You have already agreed that he did, correct?)
Was there a mother god when he wrote that, or was she non-existent at the time? (Of course she existed because the wmscog teaches she existed in Genesis and she would have been alive on earth when Ahn wrote the book, right?)
So why did Ahn write that there was no mother god? Do you consider this a "righteous lie" on Ahn's part–what was his motivation?
fromtheotherside wrote:
Actually its not an invalid argument. God the Mother was not revelaed at the time so there was no God the Mother, very much a valid argument.
ASH preached God the Mother… She was revealed before April 1984
Simon wrote:
With intent to deceive was the original claim
That was the original claim but then I changed it. It's stupid to say "______ done with malicious intent is not a sin" DUH! We know this.. I said with-holding information is not a sin because Jesus told His disciples to with-hold information. If it were a sin then Jesus is not God. Like I said.. Get your life.
except you looked like you were refuting my claim which you apparently were not
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.