Angels Kicked Out of Heaven Part 2

Tagged: 

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #6802
    Moved-Comment
    Participant

    This comment was originally posted on Are We Angels That Were Kicked Out Of Heaven? Part 2 – Isaiah by Heyyou22 and moved here for further discussion:

    You are taking one teaching and basing it off of the reason why it said that " we are from heaven"…. Theres so many other events that take place in the bible and most people interpuret it litteralty we when you understand that everything that happen it the bible is a lesson for us spiritually. Think about it why are people created just to die?… Even when you think about heaven God is our parents and Gods home is heaven wouldnt it just make sense that its are home too! …. The bible clearly says that " the wadges of sin is death"… And that Jesus came to to " seek and save the lost" then most chritians know Jesus came for us so we must be the" lost" then lost from where? Jesus came from heaven did he not? Even if you look at it from bible point of veiw and commen sense point of few it just adds up! The reason we are here on this earth amd suffer so many things and eventually die is because wr commited a sin in heaven against God amd there is no sin allowed in heaven so he casted us here gave us a second chance and sacrificed himself to show us how much he loved us even tho we sinned. Even physically we can understand how much love our parents have for us and would go above and beyond no matter what we did! Then how much more does God love us!…. Even 2,000 yrs ago when jesus came how many people who claimed to believe in God even profound leaders yet they rejected christ, even using the bible as a way to brand him heresy. They crusified the only one they claimed to believe in the whole time because they understood God litterally but didnt realize that Jesus was the actual prophecy being fufilled right before there eyes. Stop listning to rumors even if theres proof of this and that… So what? Were we there when all this allegation

  • #43788

    Joshua
    Participant

    Even if you look at it from bible point of veiw and commen sense point of view it just adds up!  I'm not sure how you figure that! How do you answer for the Bible saying that when we were born we were without sin? You're supposed to believe the entire Bible am I right? Once again it looks like either that is not true or certain parts of the Bible are just not studied by your group because it doesn't fit into your doctrine. Sorry if I'm being harsh here but I will not defend the fact that I am standing on the Word of God. You state that you have a common sense and a biblical point of view then let's look at this together. Weather we are lost or found we are all Gods children. God wants a relationship with us. He wants that none should be separated from him. All of these are biblical. If we are angels that sinned in Heaven and cast down to the Earth then why would god (male or female) come to Earth and have sex with their children? Why would they give birth to fallen, sinful angels? Ahn has three children and Zahng has two children. This is a fact and not subject to dispute. Where is your common sense now? These ideas are not anywhere in the realm of common sense! Please open your eyes, distance yourself from this group and these teachings, do your own outside research, and free yourself from this bondage you are in.

    #43789

    Joshua
    Participant

    This is a really good point. Why would God tell fallen angels to go forth, be fruitful, and multiply? Does God really advocate there being more sin on earth?

    #43790

    Simon
    Participant

    Flawed arguMent they are not creating new people they, are more people who already sinned in Heaven

    #43791

    Rahab
    Participant

    What would be the purpose behind teaching that we were angels who sinned in heaven or were about to sin, so God cast us down to prison (Earth) and we have to earn our way back?  To me, it would instill such a heavy burden of guilt, shame and anquish upon us humans.  It is as if I were to kick my child out of the house at the first sign of sin and make him/her work their way back in. 

    #43792

    Rahab
    Participant

    And prisons are for rehabilitating, correcting behavior, punishment, limiting contact with the outside society, controlling people, etc…

    #43793

    Simon
    Participant

    Rahab you do not understand the teaching at all.

    It wasn't about to sin it was ATTEMPTED MURDER

    Loocpoc

    first of all not all prisons are drab second of all do you think earth is anywhere near as beautiful as Heaven?

    Also I had a practicing Jew aknowledge that was the meaning behind the Lament against the King of Tyre in Ezekiel (28:11-19 according to Christian divisions)

    and the King of Babylon

    Isaiah 14:3-15

     

    Further evidence we are from Heaven would be in Jeremiah 1:5 and Ecclesiates 12:7 and John 9

    #43794

    Emily
    Participant

    Shimon, God did not spare any of the angels that sinned against him (2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6) but sent them to hell to await judgement. Therefore, humans cannot be the angels that sinned against God.

    #43795

    Rahab
    Participant

    Perhaps the WMSCOG member taught the lesson to me incorrectly.  I feel I understood the lesson.  I just can't help but wonder what the purpose or intent of coming up with that lesson would be.  How, in good conscious, could the church put that burden of guilt on its members. 

    #43796

    Emily
    Participant

    Rahab wrote:

    Perhaps the WMSCOG member taught the lesson to me incorrectly.  I feel I understood the lesson.  I just can't help but wonder what the purpose or intent of coming up with that lesson would be.  How, in good conscious, could the church put that burden of guilt on its members. 

    The burden of guilt serves as a method to get members to essentially confess to a crime that they didn't commit.  They teach that since the wages of sin is death, then we must have committed a sin, or crime, against God that is deserving of a death sentence.  So if you buy into this "teaching" you may feel eternally indebted to the "mother god" and in this case the organization.  You may feel like you just have to do whatever the leadership at the wmscog tells you to because after all, you have to pay your debt to "god" according to their doctrine.  There doesn't seem to be much separation between who the wmscog considers to be "gods" and the organization itself.  Somewhat of a fused concept, if you will.  

    #43797

    Simon
    Participant

    I gotta say its a better burden to be responsible for why I must die or be saved over being cursed because one woman ate a fruit 6,000 years ago.

    #43798

    Simon
    Participant

    besides tell me what interpretation of scripture doesn't put a burden on you accept WMC or not you still sinned and that was still the cause of God giving up the kingdom of heaven for you for 33 years culminating in beatings whippings and crucifixion just to save you which you don't deserve all because he loves you more than anything else.

    #43799

    Emily
    Participant

    shimon wrote:

    I gotta say its a better burden to be responsible for why I must die or be saved over being cursed because one woman ate a fruit 6,000 years ago.

     The Bible says that because Adam sinned, we all sinned if I remember correctly.  And Shimon, you didn't respond to my earlier post, so I will quote it here again.

    Emily wrote:

    Shimon, God did not spare any of the angels that sinned against him (2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6) but sent them to hell to await judgement. Therefore, humans cannot be the angels that sinned against God.

     I would appreciate you input on the above two verses. 

    #43800

    Joshua
    Participant

    Emily wrote:

    Rahab wrote:

    Perhaps the WMSCOG member taught the lesson to me incorrectly.  I feel I understood the lesson.  I just can't help but wonder what the purpose or intent of coming up with that lesson would be.  How, in good conscious, could the church put that burden of guilt on its members. 

    The burden of guilt serves as a method to get members to essentially confess to a crime that they didn't commit.  They teach that since the wages of sin is death, then we must have committed a sin, or crime, against God that is deserving of a death sentence.  So if you buy into this "teaching" you may feel eternally indebted to the "mother god" and in this case the organization.  You may feel like you just have to do whatever the leadership at the wmscog tells you to because after all, you have to pay your debt to "god" according to their doctrine.  There doesn't seem to be much separation between who the wmscog considers to be "gods" and the organization itself.  Somewhat of a fused concept, if you will.  

     Emily, thank you for posting this. Your explaination is very revealing and upsetting. The more that I learn about this group the more I want them to fold up their tents and disappear. These are some of the most vile and deceptive teachings that Satan has ever used to mislead Gods children. For all of you that have been freed from this slavery I encourage you to share as much as you can to expose this junk to everyone before they are deceived and mislead. I will continue to pray for Gods army to raise up and drive this filth from our sight. It's Gods fight and we are being called into service. Put on the full armor of God. Arm yourselves with the truth and lets take down this Goliath in the name of the one true God.

    #43801

    Emily
    Participant

    You're welcome Joshua ๐Ÿ™‚

    It took me being away from the wmscog to be able to see it clearly.  I found it difficult to see any other perspective when I was constantly being smothered by other members, repeating the same studies over and over, and sleep deprived.  I was exhausted but I wasn't allowed to complain about it.  If I did, I would be accused of "grumbling".  And of course I was taught that if I had any doubts about Ahn, Zhang, or the wmscog, that it was Satan trying to take me away from "the truth".  I was stuck going in circles.  Like a hamster in a wheel.  Finally, I opened my eyes and confronted the lies that I had been told over time.  I set myself free from the slavery I was under and I'll never look back.  I hope and pray that others do the same. 

    #43802

    Rahab
    Participant

    Hebrews 1:6-7. …”Let all God’s angels worship him.”. Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire”.

    Hebrews 1:13-14. But to which of the angels has He ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet? Are not angels spirits in the divine service, sent to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?”

    Hebrews 2:5-9. Now God did not subject the coming world…to angels. But someone has testified somewhere, “What are human beings that you are mindful of them, or mortals, that you care for them? You have made them for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned them with glory and honor, subjecting all things under their feet”. Now in subjecting all things to them, God left nothing outside their control. As it is, we do not yet see everything in subjection to them, but we do see Jesus, who for a little while was made lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

    Hebrews 2:14-15. Since, therefore, the children share flesh and blood, he himself likewise shared the same things, so that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by the fear of death. For it is clear that he did not come to help angels, but the descendants of Abraham.

    #43803

    Cephas' Brother
    Participant

    Rahab, I'd say that pretty well demonstrates that the "we were angels kicked out of heaven" yarn they spin is not supported by scripture. To me it also shows how they isolate and twist text to support their doctrine. When I brought up how they use Job 38:21 to do this same thing the reply I got was a VERY sarcastic "why would god use sarcasm?", clearly shows that only the isolated text is being taught because reading any further than that destroys the premise of their teaching. 

    I wonder, do they actually teach this stuff out of a bible? Or do they just hand out a worksheet with their selected verses printed on it after they've already talked about this whole "we were angels" deal? However they do it, it's a mighty web that they weave. Makes my head spin. 

    #43804

    Simon
    Participant

    No surprisingly we've never used that in the zion I went to. 

    and PleaseGodHelpMe it is taughts from the Bible not sheets or anything.

    #43805

    Simon
    Participant

    Do you mean Proverbs 8? That is the only thing with Solomon I remember used as proof.

     

    The quote you gave I only remember being in Jeremiah (and we did not use that one)

    #43806

    j.j.
    Participant

    Hal wrote:

    Simon wrote:

    Do you mean Proverbs 8? That is the only thing with Solomon I remember used as proof.

     

    The quote you gave I only remember being in Jeremiah (and we did not use that one)

     Id have to look it up as Iam not at home but I remember the study as I sat through it 4 or 5 times arguing the point that we were not angels. I think its from the Scroll Song Of Solomon.

     hello, are you refering to this verses:

    Jude 1:6

    New International Version (NIV) 

    And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day

     

    Cross references:

    Jude 1:6 : S 2Pe 2:4, 9

    2 Peter 2:4

    New International Version (NIV)

    For if God did not spare angels when they sinned but sent them to hell putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment

    Footnotes:

    2 Peter 2:4 Greek Tartarus

    2 Peter 2:4 Some manuscripts in gloomy dungeons

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    #43807

    Azula
    Participant

    Emily wrote:

    You're welcome Joshua ๐Ÿ™‚

    It took me being away from the wmscog to be able to see it clearly.  I found it difficult to see any other perspective when I was constantly being smothered by other members, repeating the same studies over and over, and sleep deprived.  I was exhausted but I wasn't allowed to complain about it.  If I did, I would be accused of "grumbling".  And of course I was taught that if I had any doubts about Ahn, Zhang, or the wmscog, that it was Satan trying to take me away from "the truth".  I was stuck going in circles.  Like a hamster in a wheel.  Finally, I opened my eyes and confronted the lies that I had been told over time.  I set myself free from the slavery I was under and I'll never look back.  I hope and pray that others do the same. 

     

     

    Emily wrote:

    Rahab wrote:

    Perhaps the WMSCOG member taught the lesson to me incorrectly.  I feel I understood the lesson.  I just can't help but wonder what the purpose or intent of coming up with that lesson would be.  How, in good conscious, could the church put that burden of guilt on its members. 

    The burden of guilt serves as a method to get members to essentially confess to a crime that they didn't commit.  They teach that since the wages of sin is death, then we must have committed a sin, or crime, against God that is deserving of a death sentence.  So if you buy into this "teaching" you may feel eternally indebted to the "mother god" and in this case the organization.  You may feel like you just have to do whatever the leadership at the wmscog tells you to because after all, you have to pay your debt to "god" according to their doctrine.  There doesn't seem to be much separation between who the wmscog considers to be "gods" and the organization itself.  Somewhat of a fused concept, if you will.  

     

Viewing 20 replies - 1 through 20 (of 22 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.