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Revelation 21:1 “Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth”, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Ok got it…then Revelation 21:2 says,
“I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband”.
So let’s say for argument’s sake that the bride is a “mother god”. Can a WMSCOG member explain how and when the events in Rev 21:1 took place? The earth and the sea are still pretty much here.
Good observation Hailey, May I add something to the question to wmscog. Can they further explain Revelation 21:16-17? The measurement of “mother”?
“Re:21:16: And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.Re:21:17: And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.”“mother” doesn’t look that wide in the pictures, neither their church and not even whole of the korea is as big as Revelation describes.yes, the “heavenly jerusalem” is a place made of people and not a single person as the rest of Revelation 21 clearly explains. when i speak with WMSCOG members, they will only quote verses 9 and 10, and not read the rest of the chapter. that makes it really easy to misunderstand that verse if you don’t read the entire context.
so i was reading over this again last night, and i just noticed that Revelation 20 talks about the end of the world and the final judgment.
so after Jesus Christ returns, and all the wicked are cast into hell, it is game over, and the world is over… then the heavenly Jerusalem (city) comes down out of heaven.
so even if the city in Revelation 21 is supposed to come to earth metaphorically as a person, that would still put “mother jerusalem” as the wms points to her today as being here at the wrong time. the events in Revelation 20 have not happened!
just another point i don’t feel is fair when the wms quotes Revelation 21 without looking at the chapter before it.
i don’t see how you can ignore the context and come up with the right interpretation.
I try not to argue scripture that much with the WMSCOG members, but this is pressing on my heart.
Matthew 5:34-35 But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
As for measurements we do not ignore that verse we have a whole study entitled Most Holy Place and Mother which discusses that.
As for Matthew 5:34-35 Heavenly Jerusalem being Mother does not prevent there from being a city called Jerusalem.
shimon wrote:
As for measurements we do not ignore that verse we have a whole study entitled Most Holy Place and Mother which discusses that.
As for Matthew 5:34-35 Heavenly Jerusalem being Mother does not prevent there from being a city called Jerusalem.
but how do you explain the sequence of events being out of order?
As I have already stated revelation cannot be sequencial or babylon would fall at least twice.
shimon wrote:
As I have already stated revelation cannot be sequencial or babylon would fall at least twice.
1.) I don't believe you previously stated this on this thread. (you may have elsewhere?)
2.) Which two places are you saying that it falls? Please be specific with the verses.
Thank you.
A second angel followed and said, “Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”
With a mighty voice he shouted: “Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
what are you talking about loopec?
That explanation puts revelation in the past.
It also places the plagues before Christ even came so that cannot explain it, btw sorry i mispelled your name I have no idea how I ended up spelling like that
revelation is in the future at least of John
yes but BOTH times babylon falls are after the second coming and all the seals and vials of plagues occur in the book of revelation. Placing second coming christ and the plagues John saw precyrus.
that's why Revelation cannot be chronological
False religion
Just another way to make everyone else your enemy. It’s all a part of the us vs. them mentality that cults facilitate.
Joshua wrote:
Just another way to make everyone else your enemy. It's all a part of the us vs. them mentality that cults facilitate.
Nope that is the STANDARD explanation not just WMC. Likewise no one ever says everyone outside the church is my enemy.
loocpoc wrote:
shimon wrote:
False religion
So wouldnt your church be a false religion? You worship an idol whom people believe to be G-d in the flesh yet she meets none of the prophecies to be G-d in the Flesh.
As a Jew you believe all Christians worship an Idol.
Tell me, if someone doesn’t agree with the WMSCOG are they good or bad?
shimon wrote:
that's why Revelation cannot be chronological
I agree that not everything in Revelation is chronological, but even the wmscog teaches that at least some of Revelation is chronological. They teach that the sealing of Rev. 7 comes after the six seals in Rev. 6.
About the fall of Babylon, does it make sense that an angel might announce that Babylon falls, then tell about its fall, and then announce again that it falls?
Does it help you to know that the verb tense of "is fallen" is aorist indicative active?
Here's more about the aorist tense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aorist_%28Ancient_Greek%29
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