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The WMSCOG accuses other churches of “Idol Worship” in regards to the Cross. They seem to think that even displaying it in church is evil.
Doesn’t the Ten Commandments teach us not to bear false witness?
None of the Christian churches I have been to have ever taught us to worship the Cross. The Cross is used as a symbol to remind us of the great sacrifice that was made for us by Christ Jesus. This is commanded in the Bible.
The Bible says not to make any symbol to a false god and worship it. Make no brazen images. The Cross is a symbol for the REAL GOD and even so we do not worship it. Now that is not to say that some people don’t cross the line on this. If someone is worshipping the Cross they need to be corrected and if we see this worship happening and we don’t help correct it then I believe we are guilty as well. Having a Cross around also serves as a reminder that we are to love the one true God. It’s like a husband asking his wife not to love any other man. She carries a picture of her husband around with her as a reminder that he loves her. If she chose not to carry the picture she might be more easily swayed. Worse would be if she carried a picture of another man. (Jesus vs. Ahnsahnghong) This would be absolutely wrong on all counts.
Gods ways are mysterious. He uses things that we would view as vile and/or worthless to reveal his glory. He uses the stone that was disguarded by men as the Chief Corner Stone. He uses something viewed as a detestable instrument of death to reveal his glory.
Lets look at what the Bible really says about the Cross.
1 Corinthians 1:17-18 Paul states that word of the Cross is the Power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23 describes the Cross as the Wisdom of God.
Colossians 2:15 describes the Cross as the Glory of God.
The Cross is described as Gods Wisdom, Power, and Glory. This object is viewed by man as a detestable instrument of death that was used to kill Jesus. Only man would have such a limited view as this. Gods ways are what we are striving for. The Cross was made a symbol of Gods power by God not by man.
Many people will bring up the message of the symbol of the bronze snake. God instructed the creation of the bronze snake as a symbol to lead people to him. Men twisted it around and many started worshipping the snake instead of what it represented. In Christian churches we are taught this lesson to not worship symbols but only worship the one true God. To make the statement that other churches are “Idol worshippers” is a gross defamation of character. You shall not bear false witness.
God ordered the making of many symbols in the Bible but I think that I will save this for another post. What God has sanctified we should NEVER try to remove. His ways are not our ways. Keep the reminder of God well within view at all times. It’s a reminder of the love he has for us and a testament to the fact that we belong to him. By the way, it’s a very real possibility that the seal of God is represented by the cross. The word does reveal this if you are truly seeking.
The Calf the Israelites worshiped in the desert was a symbol of the One True God as well.
shimon wrote:
The Calf the Israelites worshiped in the desert was a symbol of the One True God as well.
Read the story of the golden calf again. (Exodus 32) I find it obvious that the Israelites were asking for (and worshipping) an idol, not a symbol, and God recognized that in their hearts too. I know NO Christian who looks at a cross on the wall and says "That (piece of wood) is my God."
Idolaters seldom think the object if their God.
shimon wrote:
Idolaters seldom think the object if their God.
So is it a matter of the heart/attitude or a matter of the action?
Actions show the heart
shimon wrote:
Actions show the heart
No, not always. You can't always tell what's going on inside someone, but God can. That's why He's the judge and we are not.
Just a few examples…
My kids do lots of things that may cause you to think, "If you truly loved your mom, you would do things differently." They are young, and learning, and sometimes misunderstand. Does that mean they don't love me? No, they love me, despite what their actions may show. (Even as an adult, I sometime have done things and later thought, it would have shown love to my mom more if I had done something different. Does that mean I didn't love her? No.)
And think of Hannah in the Bible. Eli thought from her actions that she was drunk. (1 Sam. 1) Was she? No.
And what about the woman who poured the perfume on Jesus. (Matthew 26) Could the disciples tell what was in her heart? No, but Jesus could.
And going the other direction, think about Judas. The disciples couldn't tell by his actions that betrayal was in his heart, but Jesus could. (John 13)
Judas was stealing just because you cannot see an actin that exposes doesn’t mean it is not there.
Sorry, Joshua, I brought up Judas.
It went kind of like this,
wmscog says the cross is an idol. Christianity says it is a symbol.
Shimon said the golden calf was a symbol too. I said, no it was an idol, and Christians do not think of the cross as a god the way the Israelites called the golden calf their god.
Shimon answered that people don't always think of their idol as their god. I said, then is the problem between idol/symbol a problem of the attitude of the heart or of a person's actions.
Shimon responded that actions show the heart. I recognize that as the argument that some Christians look like they're treating the cross as an idol, therefore it is an idol even if they don't mean it to be.
So I responded that we see actions, but only God knows what's in the heart. Do not judge what's in a person's heart by their actions. And I gave examples, including Judas.
Shimon said that Judas did have actions (stealing) that showed his heart, even if the actions were not seen by people. So it is connected. (Thought the recap this way might make it easier to put together.)
Thanks, Joshua.
Shimon, the point is that you (a human) cannot always know what is in someone's heart by looking at their actions. If you can't see their actions (like with Judas' stealing), then you definitely don't know what's in their heart. Only God knows, and He knows whether or not the actions are visible to anyone else. When so many Christians assure you that they do not consider the cross an idol, then stop being their judge–that's God's job.
It doesn't matter what we consider an idol the Israelites truly did not consider the calf an idol they thought deep down of it as a symbol for Jehovah not another God, even the ancient greeks considered their idols symbols for their God's and I would argue that were those God's real they would be just as abhored by those idols as Jehovah of the calf.
I was compelled to join as much by that doctrine as anything else. That said I do not hate cross symbol keepers or anything.
I saw crosses as Idols years before WMSCOG was even in the United States
RABBINICAL Jews do not call him Jehovah. Karaite will call him Yehovah emphasis on the last syllabol therefore saying Jehovah is not any more wrong than saying Jerusalem or Joel et al. Not using God's name is a Rabbincal tradition in violation of scripture and prophecies.
That is rabbinical tradition not scriture. Like I said in another post I do not accept rabbinical Judaism as true Judaism the Talmud contains too much blasphemy for my taste.
I don't contest that the Talmud isn't 100% wrong in every last way. I just consider scripture the source of doctrine.
There's nothing that says you have to wear a cross or put one up in your house. If it bothers you and gets in the way of your faith, you don't have to have one. (Though you might want to explore exactly why it bothers you.)
That's the beauty of Romans 14–Do what you feel is important for your faith, but don't judge your fellow Christians for doing things differently. "Don't quarrel over disputable matters."
Yes, I do admit the way some people act with their crosses or statues is not appealing to me, and sometimes I wonder. But since I can't see their heart, how am I to know if they are truly committing idolatry, or if the cross (or statue) has just brought up such emotions in them that they can't help but kneel and pray right there, or maybe they are of the personality that they need to have a visual reminder in front of them to stay focused with their faith. Rom 14:1 "Accept the one whose faith is weak…" Rom 14:3 "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another…"
I don’t think that has anything to do with Pauls intention with Romans 14.
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