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I find it very ironic that WMSCOG members would try to use this phrase to make their points valid. Then they come to a website like this one, get shown how the truth stands on its own and how their doctrine doesn’t fit into the truth. After this revelation they spend so much time arguing, denying the truth, trying to make their doctrine somehow better than the truth. Forgive me but I just don’t understand the reason for it.
Bottom line. They would much rather keep the sheeple they have then risk putting in a bad apple. That's why they don't let the sheeple get into outright arguments with outsiders, or worse, bring one in. A little bit of persistence on their part is another story. I see what goes on clear up here from Heaven. Pray for them my peeps, pray.
Some would argue yes. Subliminal messages are a way of mind control.
At the same time, none of these things have been proven by a licensed person or whatever the law says..
Who was that directed to Joshua?
Oh…. Alrighty.
Stained wrote:
Joshua wrote:
When a group teaches something to a person and then tell them things like, "Your family and friends are not going to understand about the truth that you now have. Satan will try and use them to take the truth from you and you from the truth. You have to fight against this and hold onto the truth." this causes division! I am very hard and steadfast on this! The SDA cult did this exact thing to me years ago. I still remember the confusion I felt especially when I tried to explain this new found truth to my family and they were not getting it. Had I not had enough common sense to seek out Godly council I would have tried to bring my family into the SDA cult and when they would not go i would have separated myself from them. This IS what these types of groups cause to happen. I don't care what your background is, how you were brought up, or how grounded you think you are. There is a separation that happens when one family member gets involved in a controlling group and others don't. This kind of separation happens in all kinds of groups. Let's get away from religion for a second. Here's a classic example: A father joins a health club. He gets involved in working out regularly and wants to get his family onboard. The wife is possibly mildly supportive but already feels that the time with the family is a little more important than spending an hour or two at the gym two or three times a week. The children just want to know if there's a pool. The father knows that a adult will have to be with them while they are in the pool. This will take him away from some of his workout time. Most of the family decides that overall the health club idea just isn't for them. The father continues to go. Over time he adds more days to his workout scheduel and longer times per day at the gym. The wife starts complaining that he's not spending enough time with the family but in his mind he think that if they would just join him they could all be together. As personal trainers get involved, diet plans are implemented, and certain classes take presidence the father keeps separating himself. He doesn't see it this way but to others looking from the outside in it seems obvious. Yes there is a certain amout of selfishness here but he doesn't see it that way. He's clearly made it evident that he would love it if his family joined him in this so obviously he's not being that selfish. Now, in this example I have not included the undue pressures that many of the mind control cults use but I hope you can clearly see how separation happens within families. There is no way that the WMS doesn't cause separation in families. At some point the member feels self justified in their actions and continues further down the path of destruction that has been placed before them. History concures with the assesment that the WMSCOG destroys families.
Amen. Absolutely correct.
You separ
Joshua wrote:
When a group teaches something to a person and then tell them things like, "Your family and friends are not going to understand about the truth that you now have. Satan will try and use them to take the truth from you and you from the truth. You have to fight against this and hold onto the truth." this causes division! I am very hard and steadfast on this! The SDA cult did this exact thing to me years ago. I still remember the confusion I felt especially when I tried to explain this new found truth to my family and they were not getting it. Had I not had enough common sense to seek out Godly council I would have tried to bring my family into the SDA cult and when they would not go i would have separated myself from them. This IS what these types of groups cause to happen. I don't care what your background is, how you were brought up, or how grounded you think you are. There is a separation that happens when one family member gets involved in a controlling group and others don't. This kind of separation happens in all kinds of groups. Let's get away from religion for a second. Here's a classic example: A father joins a health club. He gets involved in working out regularly and wants to get his family onboard. The wife is possibly mildly supportive but already feels that the time with the family is a little more important than spending an hour or two at the gym two or three times a week. The children just want to know if there's a pool. The father knows that a adult will have to be with them while they are in the pool. This will take him away from some of his workout time. Most of the family decides that overall the health club idea just isn't for them. The father continues to go. Over time he adds more days to his workout scheduel and longer times per day at the gym. The wife starts complaining that he's not spending enough time with the family but in his mind he think that if they would just join him they could all be together. As personal trainers get involved, diet plans are implemented, and certain classes take presidence the father keeps separating himself. He doesn't see it this way but to others looking from the outside in it seems obvious. Yes there is a certain amout of selfishness here but he doesn't see it that way. He's clearly made it evident that he would love it if his family joined him in this so obviously he's not being that selfish. Now, in this example I have not included the undue pressures that many of the mind control cults use but I hope you can clearly see how separation happens within families. There is no way that the WMS doesn't cause separation in families. At some point the member feels self justified in their actions and continues further down the path of destruction that has been placed before them. History concures with the assesment that the WMSCOG destroys families.
Joshua,
In regards to the "SDA cult" I do not know what SDA group you were attending but your decision to separate yourself from your family was your own. Do not blame that on anyone else. It is perfectly normal to be excited by the message and spread the good news, you probably had no tac in the way to did it.. but no one forced you to go witness to your family. None of my family is SDA neither are they religious for that matter but I have a great relationship w/ them and still try to win them to Christ when I can. No one tells me that I must do that, I follwo the dictates of my own conscience.
–Jay
Typical reaction of a wmscog member, blame the division on the non church family members, no matter what. It is ridiculous. Of COURSE the wmscog causes family problems. If not, this website wouldn't exist. People are hurting, and they want to expose this group. By the way, it's working!
MountainMom wrote:
Typical reaction of a wmscog member, blame the division on the non church family members, no matter what. It is ridiculous. Of COURSE the wmscog causes family problems. If not, this website wouldn't exist. People are hurting, and they want to expose this group. By the way, it's working!
You referring to what I wrote? I am not wwmscog nor am I defending them. Thank you.
I do agree that the way people treat their family members is there decision unless they were hypnotized.
Well, unfortunately, hypnotizm isn't the only method of mind control there is. If you are convinced your family is "Satan" by the church, then you don't really consider them family, do you? You consider them "Satan" and most people wouldn't treat Satan like family, would they? My relative was so changed in his behavior that it was like "invasion of the body snatchers." It was a truly remarkable change in his demeanor toward us "non-believers." No matter, we still love him and always will. He loves us too, I know that. Deep inside he really knows we aren't as bad as they say, no matter what.
And sorry about that Jay. Maybe I misunderstood. But I guess the point still stands: They do blame any division on the family and try to drive a wedge there to separate them. I'm not new to this, I've seen it over and over. so have most people on here. It is true.
It's still they're decision. The bible doesn't say to treat satan poorly. they might see family as the enemy but how they treat them tends to be contrary to what the wmscog says. Like I said in another comment, we were taught to kill with kindness.
But how do they make a decision on their own? Over and over we see that they are taught to not use their own minds. they have to "think with the mind of mother." So how is it their decision if they don't use their own minds? Got to be someone else's decision, doesn't it? At least admit that there is undue influence, because that is definitely my experience with them. And why does is my relative always unable to just tell us he will come to a family event or go on a trip, whatever? He has to check it out with the church hierarchy. He has to ask. He has handed over every major decision in his life to someone else. No free will, so not his decision.
"It's their decision" is what the church hierarchy tells outsiders as a way to deflect problems away from them, and that is very sneaky in my opinion. If they give say, $25,000 in one year to the church under undue influence, "it's their decision" is a handy way to justify it. No way my relative would have done this or caused his family pain without undue influence and misinformation. Others here are of the same opinion.
Too convenient an excuse to blame it on the victims.
You are applying my statement to events that I didn't direct that statement to. If your loved one calls you the devil, that is against the WMSCOG because that is rude and without love and kindness. That couldn't have been influenced by the WMSCOG directly because that's not what they teach. That's not thinking with the mind of Mother. That person has misinterpreted whatever lesson they were taught. The very last thing the WMSCOG wants is for people to look at them as a people who go around insulting others. A polite person are more likely to receive a 'but' statement than a rude person.
As far as money, social events, etc. those things are directly influenced by the WMSCOG. In these cases they say give as much as you can then give more, don't go to social events unless it's for the purpose of preaching. They never say yell at your friends and family and tell them theyre the devil and need to take midol.
I have said and shall say again that the WMSCOG is a bad place and I'm glad I'm out of it.
Yes Renita, I know you are, and I am very sincerely happy for you. But what I am saying is from what I see, their influence has caused many divisions and a lot of their members to call their loved ones names and fight with them. It has definitely happened at their hands. And you are right, they don't directly tell the member to yell at family and friends and call them the devil. But since the lessons they learn there imply that their family and friends might be used by the devil to keep them from the church, of course they are going to do that as a direct result of what they have learned. If a loved one tries to persuade them not to go or to listen to some other information that is not flattering to the church, they get attacked and I guarantee you if you ask these family members they were called "Satan." Is being attacked verbally and called the name of the evil one when you aren't causing family unity? No, it's hurtful. What they get members to do is hurtful and causes problems. So it is a problem, very obviously.
And often, I am finding, when something is proved wrong with the wmscog, they just say that the member misinterpreted it. That way, they don't have to admit any wrongdoing or misinformation. Nothing is attributed to the church or their doctrine. Just some foolish member misunderstanding, and then probably getting rebuked for it.
The misinterpretation flag just doesn't fly. No more blaming it on the misguided member who is only repeating what he learned and/or applying it.
Well, I have come across plenty of people who have misinterpreted the things I say. I have difficulty explaining what I'm thinking or the point I want to express. I have given many studies where the listener would say something like, 'So, the pope is the devil?' NO! That's not what I said nor what I'm trying to say. 'So, I shouldn't go to mom's house because she has crosses and worships the devil?' What, NO! Again, not what I was trying to say. You can never place 100% blame on any one person or group, 1st of all. 2ndly, hypothetically speaking, my sister is being influenced by satan because she told me not to go to the WMSCOG anymore. What I should do IAW WMSCOG, pray for her. Go anyway. Show Mother's love. Continue preaching to her. Express how to go to heaven instead of how to go to hell. These are very direct orders that shouldn't be altered with one's opinion or feelings but are. somewhere in the study and from non-religious life experiences, I'm stuck on sister = satan [which is neither true nor what was said], satan's destination = hell [true], sister destination = hell [not yet confirmed]. Because I know this happens, I try to lead first with what the listener should do then give the unfavorable information in hopes that the listener will think sister = influenced by satan. sister needs love, patience, more studies, prayer. I'm not defending the WMSCOG completely. But from my personal experience being a bible teacher in the WMSCOG, the former sister/devil situation happens a lot more than the latter and that was never my intention.
Renita, I am sure your intentions all along have been good. My relative also came from a place of love and good intentions. However, somewhat like FTOS, it quickly turned into anger, frustration, and rude comments toward those who wouldn't convert to his church. He felt awful about what he said to us, we felt bad about it as well. And yet he was told to keep preaching to us, which in turn, caused more problems. It is designed to, whether members realize it or not, it is designed to. Keep after them, they will all join you eventually. No, they won't. We certainly won't. It is a lie they've been told.
And this 2012 thing. Another lie to spread a sense of urgency on the preaching. It makes the member even more frustrated, angry, and even panicked that they only have a short time to "save" their loved ones. So do whatever you can to get them in, you're doing them a favor! At least that is what the poor misguided member thinks. The end justifies the means type of thing.
I have a question for you, because it would help me understand why you may have experienced things differently or have a different point of view. Did you go home to a non member spouse? If you didn't or you aren't dealing with a child in this group who is being damaged, then you wouldn't have that sadness and pain that some of us do. Not that I want you to, either. It would just explain a lot.
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