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Wow I’m impressed finally an answer. F.Y.I >>>>>> FTOS admits Chuseok is pagan on this Thread on page 5 while having a conversation with Renita
The True WMSCOG" on Missionary Ron Ramos Explains Why He Left the WMSCOG After 12 Year
Fromtheotherside
online
o okay! yes actually Chuseok is pagan. You are right. But we do not keep chusoek is my point. My point is we go home and just be with our family, because that's the only time we can spend with our family together in one roof. Aunts uncles, cousins Gparents.
And he said on this thread Ahnshahnhong 37 Years or 21 Years That weddings, Funerals, and baby showers are allowed
fromtheotherside
offline
So this is your point. Okay. Yes your pastor said stay away from this and that, but most likely he heard something from a brother who told him, Hey pastor baby showers are pagan because of … this and that… and then the pastor said reallY? And then now he says don't go. But I don't know if you are mistaken and some group leader told you not to go. But here in korea we go. We go to weddings, we go to funerals and baby showers. As long as its not in a Babylon building. Also we do well not to worship idols. So you have the wrong Idea.
I have to call my friend and let him know because he believes he can’t attend weddings or funerals, or any other celebration. Thank you FTOS for clearing this up.
Simon
Well I have not been told the exceptions to that yet so I don't know.
Probably it is "just a physical building", unless there is some cross or idol, or unless there is a false preacher leading a funeral or wedding service with prayer to Jesus which neglects is second coming.
As a general rule of thumb, stay out, because of those above reasons.
But general rules are not specific rules. If you go to have a yarn-knitting class with the old wives club at 6pm on a thursday afternoon, theres probably 0 heretical about it and you could go in to the babylon church.
But I don't know the specifics, so I pass on the general rule I know now.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Sarah2013 wrote:
MM, do you think people can go to hell for lack of knowledge? Or do you think God will just have mercy regardless? I don't know but want to get some ideas from non wmscog members since I don't consider what members think. My grandma worshipped gods and goddesses. She died at 105 years old. Long story….
Well that's why MM is not saved "lack of Knowledge" you can see it oozing out from her pores. Lolz I already washed my face thank you.
Also Yes go and tell your friends what I said. Because unlike you guys who came out they know all Zions are different to some degree. but the message is the same. The pastor doesn't want them to go because of temtation. Not because it is a sin. It only becomes a sin if you start dancing with them and chanting. They get it. That's why we're still here.
Don't include me in that list. I know Zions are different and have witnessed the difference 1st hand. I also know my group leaders [yes plural] said that funerals and such were pagan and to stay away from them. They taught us to fear anything with the word "pagan" attached because we might sin knowingly or unknowingly. Those of us who didn't want to take any chances just stayed away altogether.
My Missionary would often times just advise us not to go rather than sit down with us and explain, through Scripture, what we should abstain from. [Probably because she was so busy. But then we weren't allowed to ask any other group leader] We know the obvious like praying and such. I was even told we shouldn't cry for the dead either. One brother who's son died gave a fragrance and began to cry. He asked for us to excuse his tears for he knows it's pointless to cry over his son but he couldn't help it. Why the hell is it pointless to cry over you deceased child? Oh that's right, because he's going to heaven and you'll see him later. So.. he can't miss him? That's really why people get sad at funerals because their loved one is gone and they'll "never" spend time with that person again.
I know this got a little lengthy so I underlined the point. =)
Simon wrote:
Why were members of my zion permitted to go into Babylon churches (when there wasn't .service ) but people can't for weddings and funerals
I think I see the problem!! Members are given bible studies on the practices of Zion to include but not limited to the Feasts. I was even asked the question if Mother said to keep Sunday as the Sabbath, should we? The WMSCOG's answer, excuse me.. the WMSCOG-Santee's answer was yes. If God said so, it became a command. Then we are taught about the COC in WMSCOG-Santee. If a brother or sister who is not a group leader says something to you about Scripture or the "rules" in Zion, 1st consult your group leader. Anything that comes from your group leader came from Pastor. Anything that comes from Pastor comes from the Assembly. Anything that comes from the Assembly comes from Mother. Being that Mother is God, anything she says becomes a command, not a suggestion. If my group leader says, "Don't go in babylonian churches for any reason" we are to assume it eventually came from Mother which makes it a command, not a suggestion. And if it's a command from God and I disobey and go inside anyway, I have sinned against God.
WMSCOG-Santee presses the COC very hard. I didn't like the rule that I could only ask my Missionary questions. She was a very busy woman, always in bible study and always preaching so I had very little time to ask her questions. There were a few times she sat with me and studied with me but I had to make an appt! I told her that it was ridiculous I couldn't ask this Deaconness my question. She said the reason we have this system is because Mother put the system in place. If I think the system is ridiculous then I think Mother is ridiculous for making it. I was conditioned to believe that everything that was passed down to the general members eventual came from Mother which makes it a command not a suggestion and if you went against that command you were sinning.
With this is mind, I expected every other church to have the same "rules" because we worship the same god. But that's not what happened. Why? Because not everything comes from Mother. Like Jake [or whoever] said, the members follow the Pastors. If all the Pastors followed the same god then there shouldn't be so many differences in what's a sin and what isn't. In the WMSCOG-Santee, it was a sin to enter a babylonian building because my group leader said not go in one and I was told anything she says comes from Pastor which comes from the Assembly which comes from Mother which makes it a command not a suggestion.
The group leaders and Pastors [at least the ones in WMSCOG-Santee] need to be clear on what is a suggestion and what is a command from God. A. Paul did..
You should listen to them with faith because they were chosen by Mother. But that doesn’t mean that during the week you can’t call them or come in to Zion to enjoy the free time of church elders who delight in spending it anwering you in greater detail.
But I already understand that a lot of things have already been revealed to the ex-members here, they just forget it and form delusions. Seriously you guys forget everything the brothers here tell you then ask the same question over again saying “oh see they are evading the question”. No, you people are just forgetful and extremely obtuse.
Or maybe, just maybe, your elders didn’t explain it to you because they didn’t think you could handle it. Surprise surprise here you are now.
“1004” was right.
I find it a strange phenomenon that all ex members are forgetful or delusional. I wonder if this happens when people leave other groups after long term membership.
144000 wrote:
You should listen to them with faith because they were chosen by Mother. But that doesn't mean that during the week you can't call them or come in to Zion to enjoy the free time of church elders who delight in spending it anwering you in greater detail.
But I already understand that a lot of things have already been revealed to the ex-members here, they just forget it and form delusions. Seriously you guys forget everything the brothers here tell you then ask the same question over again saying "oh see they are evading the question". No, you people are just forgetful and extremely obtuse.
Or maybe, just maybe, your elders didn't explain it to you because they didn't think you could handle it. Surprise surprise here you are now.
"1004" was right.
Then they should say so. It's wrong to lead someone to believe something that isn't true. I find it hard to believe that the Pastor didn't see that the members were believing the suggestions given were commands from Zahng. I know this because there was a rumor going around WMSCOG-Santee and the Pastor nipped it in the bud immediately. He's Korean but he's not stupid.. He knows what's going on in his church.
The members love to make excuses for their members and Pastors instead of just saying they were wrong. The Pastor isn't always right. The Pastors sometimes make mistakes and I think the [intentional] mistake made was leading the members to believe that whatever suggestion they made came from Zahng.
You don't know why I left so don't tell me why I left. All this junk about Christmas, Sabbath, the Feasts, King David.. that's not why I left.
Disturbed wrote:
I find it a strange phenomenon that all ex members are forgetful or delusional. I wonder if this happens when people leave other groups after long term membership.
I find it strange, too. I have spoken to current members about some of the things I learned and they confirmed a lot of the stuff I remember learning. I find it amazing that these members who didn't attend the same branch I attended seem to know more about that branch than I do. Hm..
Disturbed wrote:
I find it a strange phenomenon that all ex members are forgetful or delusional. I wonder if this happens when people leave other groups after long term membership.
There is a very good reason for that. Stop-and-think is an all-over function of the brain. The pre-frontal cortext of the brain is where most critical thought occurs; it is also the area of the brain in which memories are formed. It would follow then, that if one's ability to think critically was stunted, then so too would memories.
Thoughts stay in the PPC, FEF, and ITC for a much shorter period of time. These areas of the brain are designed more for in-out, simple processes. It would follow then, that if one wanted influence over another that one wouldn't be too keen on allowing critical thought and that automated processes would be needed for self-monitoring – viola, drive thought down to quick in-out processes regions of the brain. Again, memory retardation is a high risk side effect of this process.
Hahaha Renita you may be surprised which branch I attended, I know firsthand exactly what was said to you and those congregations. So please make up more stories I love to show how ex-members are usually the type of people who can’t get their facts straight, especially from those Zions.
In fact some of the same deacons you spoke to told me that some people are being tempted by their fammilies into dedicating false holy days and going into babylon churches. Then because I had good results preaching to my family and friends he said “it is okay if you understand do not let them pray over your food” because all my family came for thanksgiving.
Nobody was lying when they said participating in babylon customs can lead to sin.
Nobody was lying when I was informed of the exceptions to this according to the detailed word of the bible.
Lol if we can’t understand why was i asked to teach the children and new members answer questions? I might’ve led them astray
Others here have been trusted with too much for being slow
And Ron was trusted to be a Missionary. People change, and they can become delusional or liars as hardships come theirnway and test them.
Just because someone was trusted to a position does not mean they are infallible, a position of authority does not make you any less unstable or forgetful. And my how much you have forgotten. Do you even believe in Jesus who is a high priest forever in the order of Melchizadek without geneology and without father and mother?
Will you look for a new man who is born such a way to fulfill what the first coming Jesus did not? Does the lord speak and then not act?
Indeed you should be a teacher of the law by now, but you have already forgotten everything, you need milk now, even though once you ate solid food.
I’ve forgotten nothing lol
It isnt that complicated.
The general rule is good to listen to.
The specific rule is better to listen to.
For all instructions do eventually come from Father, Mother and the bible, making the bible the best thing to listen to.
But unless you want to sit down for 4 hours and hash out what is and is not acceptable (in case you’ve forgotten the bible is a big book), then the general rule is fine for you.
144000 wrote:
Sarah2013
"do you think God will just have mercy regardless? I don't know"
Sure you know, wmscog members have already answered this for you here before. Have you already forgotten?
It is written that the person who dies without getting a fair opportunity to learn all of the truth, he will be judged according to his morals, and given a chance for heaven, maybe, if Jesus likes them and gives mercy. The good samaritan has a chance for heaven if if he didn't have any life in him.
It is also written that if you do not eat Jesus flesh and blood you have no life in you, you have no garauntee for eternal life, and there is a good chance you are going down. But he says those who eat his flesh and drink his blood recieve eternal life, and he promises to ressurect them.
So you can choose "maybe" which is probably no.
Or you can choose the garauntee of Jesus promise through the Passover he blessed.
Can you please point out to me which verses say this. I just want to make sure I'm on the same page as you.
This question has come up before, but there wasn't a clear answer. What constitutes "a fair opportunity"? Is it having someone approach you but you turn them down and don't listen? Is it a step further, listening briefly but not responding to the message? It it a step further, listening and studying but not getting baptised? Do you know of any kind of line that would mark a fair opportunity?
If approaching people is what gives them their fair opportunity, then does the act of approaching a person with your message take away their chance for heaven? I'd like to know what you think of this.
144000 wrote:
It isnt that complicated.
The general rule is good to listen to.
The specific rule is better to listen to.
For all instructions do eventually come from Father, Mother and the bible, making the bible the best thing to listen to.
But unless you want to sit down for 4 hours and hash out what is and is not acceptable (in case you've forgotten the bible is a big book), then the general rule is fine for you.
You mean to tell me that the reference is better than the source? God isn't the best thing to listen to?
No thats not what I meant at all! The Bible -is- God’s word, and God speaking God’s word is God’s word. God -is- the word and they are the source.
144000 wrote:
No thats not what I meant at all! The Bible -is- God's word, and God speaking God's word is God's word. God -is- the word and they are the source.
That's not what you said, though. You explicitly gave a list and said the bible is the best thing to listen to. That's what you said so that's obviously what you meant. Even if Zahng says something you should 1st consult the bible before believing her even though she's "god". That's what it means when you said the bible is the best thing to listen to. Zahng's word is good but the bible is better.
Genny
That is for God to judge, he knows what is in a man’s hearth and how whether or not they had a fair chance. I’m on my phone but you can google the bible verse “according to their morals” should work.
I said the word “maybe” for a reason. “Maybe” you’ll be saved without the passover. But probably not the gate to Jesus is narrow and few find it.
And yeah he who belongs to God hears what God says, only people who do not belong to God reject the message. Even a poorly spoken preacher they will listen.
Renita
Wow excuse me Semantics Police, I see you want to take the Illiterate train all the way to Assumption town.
I said Heavenly Mother, Father, and the bible were all “the word of God” in my post. Get your instructions from the source, which is the word of God.
You can open a bible to do this, it is no lie the word of God is in there.
Or you could have talked to Father to do this.
Or you could speak directly with Mother to get the word of God from the source.
It all means exactly the same thing so stop projecting your inability to read onto my intentions.
144000, I've looked up "according to their morals" in three translations, and there are no results. When you can later, maybe you can look it up the verse you are thinking of. It probably has slightly different wording.
About what Renita asked about the source. What if "Mother" or "Father" told you something that was in clear contradiction to the Bible. Which would you follow? (I don't mean a matter of interpretation, but something really clear, like saying that Noah parted the Red Sea and not Moses.)
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