- Topic
The WMSCOG used these verses in the Bible to support or emphasize the need for baptism ON THE VERY DAY that people are preached with the wmscog teachings. I would like to point out that this is base on my own experience and may differ from the experiences of others.
WMSCOG’s Biblical Support of Baptism #1: Refuted
Go and make disciples (Matthew 28:19-20)
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM to obey everything I have commanded you.”
- They use this verse to impose that you must undergo baptism FIRST before you are taught because it was stated in the Bible: Baptize them and teach them. Due to the fact that the word “baptize” comes first, they have reach the conclusion that you cannot be taught about everything yet unless you were baptized first.
- But they are forgetting the word: AND. The word AND is very different from the word THEN. If the bible said “Baptize them THEN teach them”, well, I would have no objections undergoing baptism without learning anything first. But since the word "AND" was used, this implies that you can do the one or the other first, as long as you do both then it is okay. There is no prerequisite. Either they are deliberately ignoring this point or they just seriously need to study English again.
WMSCOG’s Biblical Support of Baptism #2: Refuted
The Story of Eunuch and Phillip (Acts 8:34-40)
Philip said, “If you BELIEVE with all your heart, you may.” The eunuch answered, “I BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
Story of Peter and the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-47)
When they heard this, they had NO FURTHER OBJECTIONS and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
Conversion of Lydia the Dealer (Acts 16:14-15)
One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home.
Conversion of Jailor (Acts 16:30-33)
He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all in his household were baptized.
- While it is true that these people were baptized ON THE VERY DAY of the preaching/meeting with the disciples, the wmscog neglects to point out the most important factor: FAITH. The people here believe first before undergoing baptism. If you look at the stories closely, the people here were very willing to be baptized and have no further objections. THIS MEANS THAT THE WMSCOG DOESN’T HAVE THE RIGHT TO INSIST TO THOSE ATTENDING FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT THEY MUST BE BAPTIZED THAT DAY.
- The bible said that even if you are baptize but does not believe then it is still invalid (Mark 16:16). Some of the people they baptize doesn't even know yet about Ahnsanghong being the 2nd Christ but they use people's faith in Jesus, not in Ahn, so they could baptize.
WMSCOG’s Biblical Support of Baptism #3: Refuted
Parable of the Rich Man (LUKE 12:16-20)
And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’
“Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’
“But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’
- They also use this verse to support their ON-THE-DAY baptism saying, "See? You don't wait for tomorrow to be baptize." But if you clear your mind and try to understand what this passage means, you will know that this parable talks about man’s GREED. If you are greedy and try to save things for yourself, and you die tomorrow the things you gather for your own benefit will not be good for you or for anyone else. IF I WANT TO BE BAPTIZED ON ANOTHER DAY COZ I WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT FIRST, DOES THAT MEAN I’M GREEDY??? It’s really not related to the moral of the story. It is so obvious that the wmscog is just using this verse because they can’t find much more biblical support for their twisted teachings.
PROVERBS 27:1
“Don’t brag about tomorrow,since you don’t know what the day will bring.”
- This is what the deaconess quoted to me when I refused to be baptized three times that day already. Of all the biblical reason they provided for their “immediate” baptism, this is the most acceptable one that they have come up with IF you don’t take the word “brag” literally since I did not decline just to “brag” anything. This saying in the proverbs can be used in anything, even on the topic of baptism, but it still does not support the fact that you can insist REPEATEDLY that a person should undergo something he/she isn't prepared for yet.
and can mean succession
they also as of 2010 require you to believe
and while the parable isn’t about baptism it is about living for God or not.
ahnsahnghong as second coming Christ
I was baptized there without any understanding of what this group was all about, the very first time I attended. I did it because I trusted the relative I went with, and he asked me to go ther and be baptized. I thought it was some kind of born again thing, and it seemed very important to him. I said to him months later that "I didn't know what they were about and they baptized me anyway. I was basically tricked into it." My relative said, "You knew, they didn't trick you." Really? How did I know? I couldn't even understand most of what the Korean preacher said in the sermon, and I thought Ahnsahnghong was a Korean word for Jesus (the real one).
There should not be an adult baptism without full knowledge. Some people really freak out when they get baptized in this church without full understanding, and feel like they could possibly lose salvation as a result. That is really an awful thing to do to people.
why wms people will do anything even to the point of tricked people for baptism, heres why… every local leader of a sion were given minimal headcounts for recruitment they should get in a span of time…. mostly 3 months or 6 months period, now after you got baptized, you sign on that book called "the book of life" right? thats basicaly a proof that sion will sent to korea, its like… a report card that says "here this is how many people we get in 3 months, see? we are working as hard as we could here!"
Even if you will get out after a week…. your name would be already "counted".
Yes, my name was put in the book of life immediately. After I learned more about this group I realized what they were doing and knew they used me and a few others my relative talked into this. My daughter went there with him once as well, but she refused to be baptized. Good for her! I just trusted this relative because he had always been someone you could trust completely. He even goes back on his word now, something he never did before.
Elievalkyrie wrote:
Well I was baptized in 2012 and they didn't tell me any Ahn-god, Zhang-god bull before pouring one bucket of water over me. lol. My "overseer" was even VERY surprised when I pointed Zhang's pic and asked, "Is she the one you call god the mother?" (My brother told me beforehand).
Seems like they didn't follow some instructions, or maybe my zion was just getting desperate in gathering fruits.
HERE this is the procedure:
First the baptizer asks: Do you believe in Christ Ahnsahnghong and second coming Christ and in Heavenly Mother?
then if they say yes they ask:
Do you want to be baptized in the NEW NAME of Jesus, Christ Ahnsanghong?
then if they say yes they baptize…
KC wrote:
why wms people will do anything even to the point of tricked people for baptism, heres why… every local leader of a sion were given minimal headcounts for recruitment they should get in a span of time…. mostly 3 months or 6 months period, now after you got baptized, you sign on that book called "the book of life" right? thats basicaly a proof that sion will sent to korea, its like… a report card that says "here this is how many people we get in 3 months, see? we are working as hard as we could here!"
Even if you will get out after a week…. your name would be already "counted".
I've been naughty and looked at the BOL names were removed when people stopped attending so it seems to me they do remove people from their numbers.
Elievalkyrie wrote:
Yes, I almost laughed out when I signed that book of life thing. If they want to make it realistic, I would like to suggest they leave the phone number out of it. It made me think that God needed my number in case He wants to contact me about my salvation or something. lol.
The BOL is also a roster Churches usually collect all that info for their rosters not really that weird.
Wow Simon, I didn't understand what that Korean Pastor said at all then. How could he think I believed in something I never heard of?
Oh, this is funny too. My husband went to some church services with our relative in the wmscog. After several months of listening to our relative preach, my husband told him emphatically, he just didn't believe in God the Mother. Yet, the main recruiter from the church contacted my husband and wanted him to tithe. What? He said he didn't believe and the recruiter knew it, but he still thought he should tithe? And especially knowing his wife didn't believe either? Not about the believinig as much as it is about the tithe, is it.
Simon wrote:
and can mean succession
they also as of 2010 require you to believe
and while the parable isn't about baptism it is about living for God or not.
Simon you are right about what the parable is about. However, where is the immediacy in the parable? As Elie pointed out, this parable is not so much about the dying "tonight" part but about focusing on the wrong kind of treasure. Yet from what Elie said, the wmscog appears to use it to emphasize immediacy.
@ Simon
I was never asked if I believed in Ahn or Zhang before I got baptized. I didn't even know who they were until months later. It's weird how the location you attended differs from almost everyone else's experience on this forum. Yet you still found reasons to leave. I guess the WMS deception comes in many forms.
Elievalkyrie wrote:
Deacon: I now baptize you in the name of the Father (Poured water on me), and of the Son (Poured water again) and of the Holy Spirit (Poured water some more).
I had the idea that they said "In the name of Jehovah, and of Jesus, and of Ahnsahnghong." Is that not so? I thought that was part of their making such a big deal about the Holy Spirit having a name.
For everyone else who was baptized here, what words were spoken at your baptism?
I agree. That book of life makes it more clear that there is something very fishy (and it isn’t fish) going on. God will expose in due time.
yahweh, jesus and ASH… thats what they say in my run 🙂
emil wrote:
Simon wrote:
and can mean succession
they also as of 2010 require you to believe
and while the parable isn't about baptism it is about living for God or not.
Simon you are right about what the parable is about. However, where is the immediacy in the parable? As Elie pointed out, this parable is not so much about the dying "tonight" part but about focusing on the wrong kind of treasure. Yet from what Elie said, the wmscog appears to use it to emphasize immediacy.
One could put off and put off forever is the point they are making with it.
Emily wrote:
@ Simon
I was never asked if I believed in Ahn or Zhang before I got baptized. I didn't even know who they were until months later. It's weird how the location you attended differs from almost everyone else's experience on this forum. Yet you still found reasons to leave. I guess the WMS deception comes in many forms.
Yeah its about the feasts those are probably the most universal aspect to WMSCOG.
Elievalkyrie wrote:
From Simon's story, I could conclude that his zion is the most honest liar among all the liars.
lol
Now where, Simon, in that story, is the baptism in the name of Ahnsanghong and Zhang? There is none, and this happened in year 2012 so it's up to you if believe this or not but this is what I testify.
That's a matter of (insert where I am here) versus (insert where you are here) I guess
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.