- Topic
All members of the wmscog are taught not to pray in the name of Jesus. To outsiders it seems strange. Why wouldn’t we pray in the name of Jesus, especially when the wmscog acknowledges John 16:24 “Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.”
Anyhow, on the suggestion of another former member I am trying it get back into reading the bible. It’s been very difficult to read without thinking of all the bible studies I learned & taught while being a member. I came across some verses that gave me a lot to think about.
John 5: 21-24 “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.”
First off…the wmscog doesn’t honor the son, Jesus. So according to the testimony of Jesus they do not honor God, the Father. Clear evidence that they are leading the members to destruction! I praised Jesus before going to that place and I have restarted praising Jesus since I left.
Verse 24 confirmed to me I made the right choice to leave that group. The wmscog teaches that it is ONLY through the Passover can a person receive eternal life. I was terrified when I left. Where else could I go to keep Passover? I was thinking I needed to convert to Judaism in order to keep Passover, despite the fact that the wmscog teaches that Jewish people keep the Old Covenant & therefore can’t be saved. In the end it doesn’t matter according to the words of Jesus. He said WHOEVER HEARS MY WORDS & BELIEVES has eternal life. Jesus gives life to whom He is pleased to give it. Doesn’t seem like there are any conditions set forth to receive life from Jesus.
My additional thoughts about the Passover according to the wmscog…they say the reality of the Passover is Zhang Gil Jah. We have all rehashed our thoughts about her! The Old Testament prophets never testified about her, nor did Jesus or any other prophet testify about her. Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever (Hebrews 13:8). He told us to believe in Him. He never said anyone was coming after Him. He told us to believe in Him & the One who sent Him. He (Jesus) told us to pray in His name.
Thank you, Jesus, for standing by me even though I left you to worship two false gods! I will continue to tell others about Jesus to atone for leading my loving brothers & sisters to worship false gods with me.
Good post Disturbed. May I suggest one thing?
If you haven't done it already, get rid of the bible you used while you were a wmscog member. Get another bible, preferably a different translation as well.
I would agree with emil if your old Bible causes you to stumble. On the other hand my loved one has entrusted me with her old Bible complete with WMS notes. I have been able to learn some things that have helped others free themselves from this group. In time you might be able to do the same. Food for thought.
The only way to overcome is to know the truth that the bible itself teaches and recognize the wrong things that are not in accordance to it.
When reading the bible, I suggest you try to understand what the AUTHOR is trying to say instead of putting your own input/opinion to what you are reading.
It would also help a lot to know a little bit of the old language and their traditions. Do not be afraid to read commentaries from other people like pastors. I know one good website wherein they try to answer your questions (biblically supported ofcourse) thru email. You can try visiting their site http://www.gotquestions.org.Good luck and may God give you wisdom and enlightenment more than you what already have now. Know that by escaping the wmscog, you are already blessed.
emil wrote:
Good post Disturbed. May I suggest one thing?
If you haven't done it already, get rid of the bible you used while you were a wmscog member. Get another bible, preferably a different translation as well.
I wouldn't be able to read any bibles myself as I probably studied every translation lol
In my experience Got Questions is nonsense
Simon wrote:
In my experience Got Questions is nonsense
If you already have a preconcieved notion that it is nonsense then it would be so in your eyes. It takes an open mind to discern something that is so deeply taught. But you are respected in your decision to think so.
@misspeace – I wouldn't say Got Questions is nonsense but it is the view of one or a group of individuals. I disagree with some of the views they express. I am not trying to put you down but "Biblically supported" is a claim that is made by every person who ever interprets the bible. This includes wmscog, JW, SDA, etc. In fact, each of the above named, claim to be the only 100% true biblical church.its more the wasy they act than what they teach its not like nothing they say is true lol
emil, gotquestions.org is just answering questions with answers that are, as much as possible, biblical. They do not claim to be the only 100% true biblical church so we can't lump them in with the religions that you have sighted above.
You may disagree with their views, which is your right, but that does not mean that they are wrong with their biblical interpretations. Which of your teaching or belief is more biblical? Which teaching is more adhering to the Word of God? That is what is most important.
@misspeace – there are 40000+ flavours out there. Almost every one of them claims to be 100% biblical. Yet there are differences in doctrines supposedly formed from biblical teaching. Almost every single point of difference between any two churches can be defended on either side by scripture quotes. When the two positions are polar opposites, one of them HAS to be wrong. Yet both claim to be supported by scripture.Hope you understand the point I am making. Although they may claim biblical support for all their answers, I disagree with their interpretation on some of them because I can equally claim biblical support for my view too. Which of us is right? We may never know until our journey here is over.
emil wrote:
@misspeace – there are 40000+ flavours out there. Almost every one of them claims to be 100% biblical. Yet there are differences in doctrines supposedly formed from biblical teaching. Almost every single point of difference between any two churches can be defended on either side by scripture quotes. When the two positions are polar opposites, one of them HAS to be wrong. Yet both claim to be supported by scripture.And that's why Romans 14 is so important. There are some "disputable matters" allowed between Christians without making either of them non-Christian.
However, something are not disputable, such as how many Gods there are.
emil wrote:
@misspeace – there are 40000+ flavours out there. Almost every one of them claims to be 100% biblical. Yet there are differences in doctrines supposedly formed from biblical teaching. Almost every single point of difference between any two churches can be defended on either side by scripture quotes. When the two positions are polar opposites, one of them HAS to be wrong. Yet both claim to be supported by scripture.Hope you understand the point I am making. Although they may claim biblical support for all their answers, I disagree with their interpretation on some of them because I can equally claim biblical support for my view too. Which of us is right? We may never know until our journey here is over.
emil, first rule is that the bible is accurate and can never contradict itself. If you have a belief that teaches something that is not in agreement with one part of the scripture, then you must reject that belief, not the scripture. One of the two has to be wrong and the bible, as the Word of God, can never be wrong. You must search and search for those teachings that are different from what the bible teaches until you can find the whole that does not contradict (that is 100%) with what the bible teaches. The problem with all those religion that you sighted is that their teachings have a lot of contradictions, once submitted for questioning they crumble.
I do understand the point that you are making but it is not an excuse to settle for one religion just because you can see a lot of different religions that have different views. There is only one truth and if you recognize that the truth you know is not THAT true afterall, then abandon that half-truth in search for a new one. One that does not contradict with the bible. This is not hard to do, as long as you throw you pre-conceived beliefs and let your mind be opened to what the bible really teaches, not what YOU believe it to teach.
Any one sided teaching is false in my experience
@misspeace – I believe the bible is the Word of God myself but more importantly, I believe Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. He is the truth.misspeace wrote:
I do understand the point that you are making but it is not an excuse to settle for one religion just because you can see a lot of different religions that have different views.
I don't understand what you mean by that. I am merely stating the reality that the bible is being misused by almost everybody who says their belief is 100% biblical.
In your own post for instance, your very first sentence shows a strong pre-conceived belief. Then in the last sentence you suggest that I should throw my pre-conceived beliefs. Please understand that I am not judging the correctness or otherwise of your belief. You are assuming as fact, something that can only be determined by faith.
On another note, your taking up cudgels on behalf of the got questions website suggests to me that you agree with all their interpretations.
emil wrote:
@misspeace – I believe the bible is the Word of God myself but more importantly, I believe Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. He is the truth.misspeace wrote:
I do understand the point that you are making but it is not an excuse to settle for one religion just because you can see a lot of different religions that have different views.
I don't understand what you mean by that. I am merely stating the reality that the bible is being misused by almost everybody who says their belief is 100% biblical.
In your own post for instance, your very first sentence shows a strong pre-conceived belief. Then in the last sentence you suggest that I should throw my pre-conceived beliefs. Please understand that I am not judging the correctness or otherwise of your belief. You are assuming as fact, something that can only be determined by faith.
On another note, your taking up cudgels on behalf of the got questions website suggests to me that you agree with all their interpretations.
Your first sentence is inaccurate. Just because almost everybody says that their belief is 100% biblical does NOT mean that ALL of them are misusing it. That is already a pre-conception.
My first sentence is not a pre-conceived belief, it is a belief that is proven with extensive research and founded to be true. Logical people can see proof and accept that as truth, that doesn't mean that they have pre-conceived belief that it is true.
The fact that you have said that "Which of us is right? We may never know until our journey here is over." implies that even you yourself do not know the truth. So how can you recognize what is false? Why are you not sure who is right? You MUST believe that you are right and therefore must provide proof to back it up and it it is proven false, be prepared to back down and change your ideas. God does not conform to man, it is man that must conform to God and the only way to know Him is knowing Him through His Word. This is not a preconceived belief, this is logic.
I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong, that you do not wholly believe in the Bible, say a Roman Catholic perhaps? Have you read the Bible that extensively and understood its teacings so correctly that you are very confident that you can already take a step out of its teachings?
Okay let me ask one simple question here: Emil, are you saved? If you die right now, will you go to heaven? Please do not think this as a trick question, I will just be making a point as you answer.
misspeace wrote:
Your first sentence is inaccurate. Just because almost everybody says that their belief is 100% biblical does NOT mean that ALL of them are misusing it. That is already a pre-conception.
I have already reminded you that there are over 40000 different versions of Christianity out there. Every one of them essentially claims to be biblical. Yet there are variations between each of them. If not, they could merge. Lets say some of them do not know that another identical one exists somewhere else in the world. That still makes for thousands of variants. Would you be willing to agree that there are at least 20000 variants out there? Does it not mean that there are 20000 variants in doctrinal sets across the 20000 variants? Now since all these sets are different, there can be at most one set which is completely right. Do you agree? What does that tell you? There must then be 19999 sets of dcotrine out of the 20000 with at least one wrong interpretation. Tell me what's wrong with this logic.
misspeace wrote:
My first sentence is not a pre-conceived belief, it is a belief that is proven with extensive research and founded to be true. Logical people can see proof and accept that as truth, that doesn't mean that they have pre-conceived belief that it is true.
The sentence you wrote is a pre-conceived belief. I have to admit it even though I myself believe it. It is based on circular logic. A logical person will not accept it as true. Faith is required to accept it as true. The Word of God stands as evidence for Jesus being God and our belief in the divinity of Jesus causes us to believe in the Word of God. So you see how it is circular logic?
misspeace wrote:
The fact that you have said that "Which of us is right? We may never know until our journey here is over." implies that even you yourself do not know the truth. So how can you recognize what is false? Why are you not sure who is right? You MUST believe that you are right and therefore must provide proof to back it up and it it is proven false, be prepared to back down and change your ideas. God does not conform to man, it is man that must conform to God and the only way to know Him is knowing Him through His Word. This is not a preconceived belief, this is logic.
I believe I am right. However, I do not think a forum for examining the wmscog is the right forum to prove it. Perhaps we could continue by PM.
misspeace wrote:
I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong, that you do not wholly believe in the Bible, say a Roman Catholic perhaps? Have you read the Bible that extensively and understood its teacings so correctly that you are very confident that you can already take a step out of its teachings?
What is it that made you think I do not wholly believe in the bible? This is the typical misconception that exemplifies what…
Bishop Fulton Sheen said:
There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church.
misspeace wrote:
Okay let me ask one simple question here: Emil, are you saved?
My belief is that being saved is not a one time action. It is a lifetime journey. Salvation is available to us but we have the free will to accept or reject it.
misspeace wrote:
If you die right now, will you go to heaven? Please do not think this as a trick question, I will just be making a point as you answer.
I am not afraid of trick questions as I have nothing to hide. I believe that every day I strive to please God and do what Jesus has commanded and shown. I have never been worried about all the so-called endtimes catastrophies. I believe I will go to heaven if I die right now but I also know that I know very little. 🙂
I perceive that this whole debate has come up because you are trying to defend the Got Questions site.
@misspeace: Lol! Aren't you the one who was against debating to the death? Just sayin'genny wrote:
And that's why Romans 14 is so important. There are some "disputable matters" allowed between Christians without making either of them non-Christian.
However, something are not disputable, such as how many Gods there are.
Completely agree with you. That is why I strongly favour ecumenism. Our Lord Jesus wanted us to be one just as He and the Father are one.
@misspeace – I would not like to continue this debate on the open forum. We could continue by PM if it suits you.
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