- Topic
Greetings,
Im a member of the church and been so for a almost half a year. Im a content member and I have my reasons for staying, however I have to admit that the church, the way I see it, may not be entirely blameless. Therefore, if anyone is interested in discussing matters involving the church from a member's perspective, ill be happy to try answer your questions with as little bias as possible – as long as you keep it polite of course. However I would like to note that i dont really want to discuss matters concerning the Bible, since I my only knowlegde in that regard comes from the WMSCOG, so I dont think I would be able to say anything you people already didnt hear.
If I may have request, I dont really wish to be associated with FTOS and 144000, because in my opinion too many times they just attack others with weak arguments and I just cant take most of their posts seriously…
144000 wrote:
I only use the words in the bible and their pg-13 synonyms to refute your arguments. You are unstable people, I am only repeating what the Apostles and Jesus have already said.
Are you now? Lets get back to Mother then. When did the apostles and Jesus teach about her??? Do you honestly believe your own words
I can prove to you Jesus is God using only the Bible.
Can you prove to me Zhang is God using only the Bible??
Asmo wrote:
Greetings,
Im a member of the church and been so for a almost half a year. Im a content member and I have my reasons for staying, however I have to admit that the church, the way I see it, may not be entirely blameless. Therefore, if anyone is interested in discussing matters involving the church from a member's perspective, ill be happy to try answer your questions with as little bias as possible – as long as you keep it polite of course. However I would like to note that i dont really want to discuss matters concerning the Bible, since I my only knowlegde in that regard comes from the WMSCOG, so I dont think I would be able to say anything you people already didnt hear.
If I may have request, I dont really wish to be associated with FTOS and 144000, because in my opinion too many times they just attack others with weak arguments and I just cant take most of their posts seriously…
Hello and welcome. Let me start by saying that I have never been a member but have a member friend who has shared about her experiences in the wmscog.
From your post, it appears to me that you are happy with what I call the social aspect of your membership in the wmscog. You admit that your prior knowledge of scripture in non-existent and what you know is entirely from the wmscog. I would venture to say that you should not content yourself woith that state of affairs. The main issue with the wmscog is their faulty interpretation of scripture, taking verses in isolation and making them prove something that is not true.
Since you have come to this site, take time to logically examine the various arguments about doctrine that are discussed in this forum. If you are confused about a teaching, feel free to post here and we will do our best to clarify. Your eternity is far more important than your social life.
144000 wrote:
Genny
Nice cover up! You forgot to mention the part were you people always say "That isn't written in the bible!" "I don't know where that verse is, so you must be a liar unless you can show me".
You sure know a lot about us! You must be speaking from a position which has a depth of knowledge about our studies!
The ignorance and assumptions of such forum members is explicitely clear for all to see now.
144000, that would fall under the "We want a chance to discuss whether those verses say what you think." Is it really so hard to cite the verse when someone asks you about it? There are so many resources online for keyword searches.
144000 wrote:
There is a difference between rude and stern, brothers and sisters. God rebukes with love, including very stern words, and Jesus himself names people who trample upon pearls, Jesus calls them swine.
God:With love
144000:With hate
Who am I to claim anything else than what Jesus spoke?
first in line
I used to think that WMS Brother spent too much time arguing here. Then I listened to, I think it was Emil, literally get told that King Tyre was not satan, but he was an angel fallen from heaven. Then she turns around and says "The WMSCOG thinks King Tyre is Satan". I hope it becomes obvious that such a level of stupidity is highly improbably, it is much more likely they do possess basic human intelligence and are deliberately twisting words in order to lie about us.
Maybe Emil was just confused seeing as the posts were far apart
But Ahn does use Ezekiel 28 to testify about Satan so…
I am here as a witness, the controversies here are no controversies at all, they are mostly badly applied assumptions and strawman arguments set up by the community itself.
WMSCOG are the ones who set up strawman arguments (at least here) with the whole internet excuses studies which address things I have yet to see brought up on any websites that are even remotely anti-WMSCOG
Stained wrote:
[rules]
Stained wrote:
Maybe Jesus sold torches back in the day, you know, for light. Our insanity ? LMAO. Seriously [rules]
Joshua wrote:
I know I speak for a lot of people when I say knock it off! Enough with the HATE stuff. You're even going so far as to Bold and underline your insulting ways. Stop NOW! As for the questions you've been asked I still want a real answer to this one. Show me in the Bible where Jesus ever taught about there being a mother god? I state very clearly that you can not do it because it is not anywhere in the Word of God. Either produce this proof or give up this WMS fairytail and accept Jesus as your person Lord and Savior. If this is insulting to you then I am forced to question your intelligence. Time to get real.
You all can act like you do not speak hate, but, well, it's just not true. Just look at his post again in this thread. Do not sit there on your high horse and tell someone to stop being insulting when your people are far more hateful than anyone from the COG. Get real.
@Atlas Shrugged. We are all individuals. Please treat us as such. My son has said there are wackos in the wmscog. Are you all wackos? Probably not, but there are some for sure. My son is a member, and he recognizes that there are wackos. But he isn't a wacko, he has just been misinformed and believed the wrong people. I have told him I know there are some good people in the church, I don't say they are all bad. I do, however, understand the horrific pain that some people have endured as a result of their loved one's involvement with the church. I can understand their anger at the manipulation and mind control, and the devastation they feel. Then they endure the insults of FTOS, 144,000, etc, on top of this pain. Some are at their limit in what they will take.
Some of your fellow members here are not thinking and speaking with the "mind of Mother." I haven't done anything but speak the truth here, I don't make a habit of swearing, name-calling, threatening, etc. I think I have done well considering that FTOs likes to call me ignorant, say that I have dementia, and generally disrespect me. He is quick with the insult to many here, and I think Genny is someone he sees as a real threat, with her knowledge of the Bible and her on the spot answers. That is why he and 144,000 like to insult her, but she has been nothing but a lady on all fronts. She is someone I respect very much, and they should too. "The Mother" doesn't talk as they do. (or does she?)
Thank you Mountain Mom. Many of us have tried to respond in kind but sometimes we can only take so many insults heaped upon us. I'll gladly take them because now more of the current members are coming here and they can see how their "brothers" handle opposing beliefs. They can call me whatever they like. At the end of the day I'm siting back laughing at it. Why do they get so angry? Why so quick to call me an idiot, insane, delusional among other things? I know all of their teachings. I have all of the sermon books with the bible verses they use. I have boxes of notebooks with all the bible studies I sat through. They can say I "forgot" when in actuality I have not. I wish I could!
As long as the WMSCOG continues to operate, I will continue to expose their dirty deeds on this website. ๐
Thank you Mountain Mom. And your steadfastness and dedication to your son are an inspiration to me.
Atlas, yes, not everyone (on either side) is able to control their language as well as we would hope. Admin has been generous in allowing us freedom of speech while still trying to catch and moderate bad language. But when something slips by like that, why not just send a pm to the admin with a suggestion to moderate if he's missed it?
I'm thinking that 144000 needs to take a trip to a foreign country – one in which he does not speak the language.
What is the first thing he will need?
A: an interpreter.
That interpreter will stand in the middle of the communication process of every conversation, because 144000 does not understand the language.
Thus, the interpreter holds tremendous power over what is communicated to 144000.
After 144000 gets to know the new land in which he is visiting, the interpreter offers a Bible study to 144000….
genny wrote:
Thank you Mountain Mom. And your steadfastness and dedication to your son are an inspiration to me.
Atlas, yes, not everyone (on either side) is able to control their language as well as we would hope. Admin has been generous in allowing us freedom of speech while still trying to catch and moderate bad language. But when something slips by like that, why not just send a pm to the admin with a suggestion to moderate if he's missed it?
Stained wrote:
Kick rocks [rules]
Did you miss that one too? IT"S IN THIS THREAD!!!! They Slip by? LOL you all are comical.
@Moutnain Mom, why do I care if there are wackos in the COG? What are you trying to say or prove with this point?
Stained wrote:
Kick rocks [rules] The SON doesn't talk like that (or does He in your chruch?)
@Atlas Shrugged…you may say we're comical but we are making an impact. If nothing else, we are making the members think. They read information on the site and then they go to the church and ask questions. The answers they are given may or may not be the deciding factor for them. They can read all of the evidence on this site without the extra commentary from anyone to make up their minds for themselves. You nor anyone else can stop that from happening. Once they see the inconsistencies between the church and the real evidence supporting the contradiction, the members will leave. That's what happened in my personal experience and what I continue to see with many others who are in the process of leaving.
The "truth" should be able to hold up to scrutiny. The WMSCOG cannot.
@Atlas Shrugged: If you don't get what I was saying you should go back and read it again, all in context. Not trying to insult you, just saying, if you really want to understand, read it again, more slowly so you don't miss the point. If you still don't get it, I'll rephrase.
Atlas Shrugged wrote:
Did you miss that one too? IT"S IN THIS THREAD!!!! They Slip by? LOL you all are comical.
I'm not the admin. Could be he's out of town or something. He's human and can't be expected to catch everything.
Smurf wrote:
144000 wrote:
Finally a new member will show up, curious about some things that are available in more studies. But instead of hearing studies in the bible from us, they hear controversies here.
I try to be open minded, believe me ๐
But if I have to choose between "We know Zhang is mother, becaus Ahn said so" and Jesus is the only Christ, because the Bible said so… well, it's a no-brainer.
The Bible will always have more authority to me than a man. If you can show me how the Bible (not Ahn!!! The BIBLE!) explains why a middle-aged korean ajumma is the Mother, I'd be glad to leave this site and never return :))
Smurf wrote:
144000 wrote:
I only use the words in the bible and their pg-13 synonyms to refute your arguments. You are unstable people, I am only repeating what the Apostles and Jesus have already said.
Are you now? Lets get back to Mother then. When did the apostles and Jesus teach about her??? Do you honestly believe your own words
I can prove to you Jesus is God using only the Bible.
Can you prove to me Zhang is God using only the Bible??
Bump.
Don't ignore, one-four, it's impolite. ๐
@ mountain mom
U said something about us being individuals. Then u jumped into some wackos being in cog… I didn’t follow your logic. Please explain. I didn’t say you tried to insult me. What is you logic in this comment also? Are you trying to say u explained it well so I should be able to understand your comment? Yea go on and rephrase for me.thank u! I’m curious what wackos in the cog has to do with your response to my statement!
@Atlas: You said we "all" speaking hatefully and grouped us all together saying "your people", etc. I said we should be treated as individuals. I don't speak hatefully of everyone in the church because my son is in there. So don't attribute anyone else's actions or words on the forum to me, that would be incorrect.
I brought up the wacko thing because that is what was used by a wms member to describe some other members. But just because some are wackos (as in all groups of people) it doesn't mean everyone in wms is wacko. I was just saying if I can see that there are individuals in the wms, you should also be able to give individuality to non-members. Fair?
Questioninginla wrote:
Kind of like counting to seven?
Sorry, I'm not getting your meaning.
But have you ever been away from the forum for a few days (or more) and then had trouble reading every post since you've been gone? Sometimes it seems like there are a billion posts in a day, the conversation is so brisk.
I asked 144000 to show me where in the Bible Jesus taught anyone about a mother god. This was the response I received:
Joshua
The jerusalem that is above is our mother. Jerusalem is also the bride of Christ. Theese two verses spell it out plainly, if you don't want to believe it thats your choice but don't say we didn't answer you.
What kind of sidestepping answer is this? Talk about twisting scripture and NOT answering a straight up question. This is another big pile of poop! Get real! You want to spew words about us moving the goal post, what do you call this? I am saying for everyone to see that YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED ME! I choose to follow the examples set by Jesus especially after His ressurection. You don't like this? Go ahead and tell Jesus that He should have done things more like YOU think He did. I would love to sit back and witness this exchange! Oh, but I'll just bet that it's my fault somehow. I'm interpreting things the way I want to or I'm too close minded and/or too willing to accept a more mainstream view. How about how my intelligence is lacking something. Excuses, excuses, excuses! With everything that is presented in this website and in this forum you still cannot see even a small amount of flaws in the WMSCOG's doctrine? If you're going to throw things like a "closed mind" or "lack of intelligence" at us you need to first be above reproach. This is a Biblical concept by the way! Too many things are wrong with the WMS for it to be considered "Christian" much less "the true church". In fact, based on the testimony given before a South Korean court, your group doesn't even want to be associated as "Christian" but as a new religion. Well, I have to agree with the new religion part as your group has pieced together from other groups a way of thinking and believing. The true God is not in you and you are not in Him. Want proof? Show me where Jesus ever taught anyone about a mother god! You still haven't even come close to doing this. You are failing! It's not totally your fault simply because this group that you belong to currently has convinced you that it must be this way. It's called a Destructive Mind Control Cult for a reason. You don't have to keep going like this but it will take real effort on your part. You keep trying to defend this undefendable doctrine when you know deep down that something is wrong with it! Step away from this group and its influence for a while, clear your head, and then start researching and cross referencing the information that you've been taught is the truth. You ARE going to find out that the information you've been given is misleading. Only the TRUTH will set you free. Stop failing and start overcoming! (I hope all of the brothers and sisters reading this will take up this challenge and learn the real truth as well.)
Smurf
We've been over this dozens of times already, don't even try to pretend like people are ignoring you. All it proves it that your deliberately trying to misrepresent our answers at this point.
Also, waiting until someone's logged off to do it is really classy. You people have a consistent pattern of fibbing about what answers you "have" or "have not" recieved. When in fact you have recieved all the answers over the course of 2 years, you simply dictate that if an answer wasn't "good enough", then by your arbitrary judgement you form this delusion that we haven't answered you. Just because you don't believe in it like we do, doesn't mean we haven't answered you, you are at this point deliberately misrepresenting us to decieve others.
The way you poeople chuckle and high five each other over it is repulsive in its immaturity and insanity.
This applies not just individually to Smurf, but all of you, especially Questioninginla.
Joshua
Those are the verses which inspire us to believe that Mother is God. You may not believe them, but they inspire us. So I answered you directly and plainly, which makes your rant rather embarassing, If I were you I would delete it before someone caught me with my foot that far down my throat.
Also Jerusalem is "the one" which descends from heaven with the appearance of jasper, and also "the one" who was unnamed who sat upon God's throne with the appearance like jasper.
That has also been mentioned before, and it sure would be embarassing for you if someone combed through the archives and pointed out how exactly many times we spelled it out for you. In addition to this time right now.
I have not been given any misleading information, yet here you are intentionally lying and trying to make people believe we didn't answer you.
Now who is misleading who?
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