[Questioninginla]

I'm interested to understand and know more about this group.  From what I do know, "God Bless You" takes the place of "hello" and "goodbye".  Why does this or any other word change matter?  Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

IF, there comes a day when someone questions "is there something suspect going on here?  how could there be?  these people are so nice.  we greet each other with 'God Bless You'".  While not indicative (of bigger problems) in and of itself, it certainly could be said at such a point in time that the meaning has now changed to become greater than just hello and goodbye, correct?  In other words, what was once a simple salutation now has more than one meaning – how does this affect my thinking?

I have also heard "soft food/hard food".  To the converted member, it makes so much sense for the end to justify the means.  Surely we want to lead someone to eternal salvation!  Who wants to err in this process?  No one!  Therefore, give the prospect only what they can handle, correct?  Or, is it just an excuse to manipulate?  If not the latter, then why not just say that God allows us to manipulate….just a little bit?

What are more words that have multiple meanings, ex-members?  Does changing words matter?  (provide examples if you can please)

[Questioninginla]

[Questioninginla]

renita.payno wrote:  [this is from another thread; copied & pasted]

Questioninginla wrote:

Sarah2013 wrote:

Who was the question for, Questioningla?

Anyone.  I was wondering if these  are words with dual meaning, like fragrance for example.

What about the process of baptism?  Is phobia used to promote it?  ie, if you got hit by a car, you'd go to hell, new recruit?

 That is the technique I experienced with everything. Baptism, Sabbath, veil, 3rd Day, preaching……. You name the 'command' they practically said, 'if you don't do it then you can't garrauntee you place in heaven.' I've said it to others too.

 

So those words are somehow synonymous with earning one's way into heaven.  Let it be noted, factually, that Muslims serve a god who loves only conditionally, who weighs the scales of every person's good and bad deeds throughout life, and expects followers to earn their own way to paradise.  JWs, much the same; witness, witness, witness (recruit), for the end is always near and the blood of the innocent man the next house down may very well be on our hands, because "we were to tired or worn out"?!? Therefore, we cannot skip out on our deeds (emphasis on phobias of blood on the hands).

Jesus – and not pseudo-Jesus I might add – died on the cross while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8) and unconditionally.  Paul argues that it is faith that delivers us, as in stark contrast to works & deeds which simply bind one to a group in a never ending quest – otherwise known as totalism, for there is never enough to satisfy when one is competing against millions of other followers.

[Questioninginla]

Added to word list:  "clouds".

As most familiar posters are aware, "clouds" = "flesh". 

The use of words, and Dr. Singer discusses this is as one of the initial catalysts of why this particular topic became of interest to her, has quite an impact on how people interpret their world.

We can see this by comparing languages cross-culturally.  For example, in english "I like" [something]; in the romance languages, derived from Latin of course, we can see in spanish that "me gusta algo", or the [something] is pleasing to me.  This point may be minor to the layperson, but it is significant.  The word usage reflects how people see thier world, their personal and group identity.

When one word stands in place of another word it literally does become the other word and captures it in a dual sense; the goal is to circumvent logical thinking and work where most of the brain works anyway – in its automatic ways (flipping a light switch when the power is out).  The group then may openly use the substitute word without any risk of discovery of what is really going on.  Thus father/mother/brother/sister can easily replace blood relatives with group members – and remember that this is typically done in conjunction with the inside/outside dynamic, discussed next.

When people leave a group they typically are described in terms of "falling away", and so on – most likely because of its affects; interestingly, this example in particular also reinforces the insider/outsider, bad/good, us-vs-them dynamic, which then in turn reinforces information control.  Three tenets working as one – quite powerful!

Simple stuff.  Hard to detect.

[Simon]

Falling away is also from the Bible.

[Questioninginla]

Simon wrote:

Falling away is also from the Bible.

 Post hoc reasoning ^

[Simon]

nope fact

[Sarah2013]

Please explain, Simon.

[Simon]

Hebrews 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

1 Timothy 4:1But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

 

[Sarah2013]

Now, that’s what I call proving your beliefs. When you give those one liner sentence the receiver has no clue your point. You just defended your debate undoubtedly….. Yeahhhh, Simon. 🙂

[Questioninginla]

Simon, no offense, but if I want anecdotes I'll go to the local community college for answers.  Your post is still post hoc methodology to "prove" your point.  You do know that Heaven's Gate substantiated its ideology with bible verses, correct?  Virtually any idiot can control another's thought through post hoc methodology. 

"Falling away", when used for affect, is unethical.  That is, when used to support us vs. them, to reinforce phobias (easily accomplished in 1 Tim 4:1), and in turn reinforces information control. 

Each leg of thought reform typically weaves itself with at least 2 others for maximum effect.

Have you read any books on the subject?

[donttrustzang]

How can any one ever fall away from the almighty god's love? I dont care if you can show me a million verses about it, If there is a god who's love is unfathomable…How could he ever let you slipp away?

[Smurf]

donttrustzang wrote:

How can any one ever fall away from the almighty god's love? I dont care if you can show me a million verses about it, If there is a god who's love is unfathomable…How could he ever let you slipp away?

Choice. Every man decides for himself. If you find doctrines of demons appealing, why not? The majority of people do.

[Love'n Honey]

God lets you slip away just like God lets bad things happen to you. God is in control of everything and nothing happens if God did not will it to happen because no one's will is greater than God's.

[Simon]

Questioninginla wrote:

Simon, no offense, but if I want anecdotes I'll go to the local community college for answers.  Your post is still post hoc methodology to "prove" your point.  You do know that Heaven's Gate substantiated its ideology with bible verses, correct?  Virtually any idiot can control another's thought through post hoc methodology. 

"Falling away", when used for affect, is unethical.  That is, when used to support us vs. them, to reinforce phobias (easily accomplished in 1 Tim 4:1), and in turn reinforces information control. 

Each leg of thought reform typically weaves itself with at least 2 others for maximum effect.

Have you read any books on the subject?

They are using it consistently with scripture. just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong

[Simon]

The way WMSCOG uses fall away is the same as paul and the same as EVERY church ever. You merely seek to insult because you hate them so much it blinds you to the few and far between times they say things correctly.

[Love'n Honey]

Simon wrote:

The way WMSCOG uses fall away is the same as paul and the same as EVERY church ever. You merely seek to insult because you hate them so much it blinds you to the few and far between times they say things correctly.

 I was talking to my friend who is a former member about this very thing. There are a lot of good points made in these threads but sometimes it seems like y'all come up with a reason to dismiss absolutely everything even when the majority of other churches agree. I made a joke with her saying that y'all would find cult activity in cleaning the toilets. And if they weren't cleaning the toilets, y'all would find that to be cult activity, too. Lol.

[MountainMom]

Simon, I agree.  Not every word out of a member's mouth is bad, untrue, etc.  Like I always say, there's a lot of good people in there.  It just gets confusing what to believe from them and what not to, as they mix scripture (truth) with their own spin. (The spin they have come to believe through intense "training") The line blurs.  Most believe what they are saying totally or they wouldn't be out preaching, obviously.  I love my relative in this group, and I know he wouldn't be there if he didn't think he was doing a good thing for himself, his family, the world.  It is just so sad that he is going in the opposite direction of what he thinks he is.  I love him, and I hate to see this happening to him. He is why I am here talking on this forum.  Not to fight you, to say all wmscog people are evil, etc.  I am only here because I see the damage that is happening.  And I won't back down from what I have said.  It is all from the heart.  He is being damaged in ways that he doesn't even realize yet, and I know he will need a lot of support after he gets out.  I will be there for him, you can count on it. All of our family will.  That's how we are.   

[Questioninginla]

I learned long ago that God sues people, and as a result never attack a group directly. I would challenge you to find a direct attack; instead, I provide information and let others decide for themselves.

Simon wrote:

The way WMSCOG uses fall away is the same as paul and the same as EVERY church ever. You merely seek to insult because you hate them so much it blinds you to the few and far between times they say things correctly.

I missed where you gained omniscience.

Perhaps it is you that is blinded.  Spend an afternoon with Ron or Diane or any other of the "fallen".

Notice how we are now on an ancillary topic instead of post hoc reasoning.

[Simon]

I am the fallen dude

[Simon]

Questioninginla wrote:

I learned long ago that God sues people, and as a result never attack a group directly. I would challenge you to find a direct attack; instead, I provide information and let others decide for themselves.

Simon wrote:

The way WMSCOG uses fall away is the same as paul and the same as EVERY church ever. You merely seek to insult because you hate them so much it blinds you to the few and far between times they say things correctly.

I missed where you gained omniscience.

  The fact is you are either a liar or blinded by hatred no other possible answer for your FALSE statements

[MountainMom]

Simon, what the heck?