[Questioninginla]

I'm interested to understand and know more about this group.  From what I do know, "God Bless You" takes the place of "hello" and "goodbye".  Why does this or any other word change matter?  Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

IF, there comes a day when someone questions "is there something suspect going on here?  how could there be?  these people are so nice.  we greet each other with 'God Bless You'".  While not indicative (of bigger problems) in and of itself, it certainly could be said at such a point in time that the meaning has now changed to become greater than just hello and goodbye, correct?  In other words, what was once a simple salutation now has more than one meaning – how does this affect my thinking?

I have also heard "soft food/hard food".  To the converted member, it makes so much sense for the end to justify the means.  Surely we want to lead someone to eternal salvation!  Who wants to err in this process?  No one!  Therefore, give the prospect only what they can handle, correct?  Or, is it just an excuse to manipulate?  If not the latter, then why not just say that God allows us to manipulate….just a little bit?

What are more words that have multiple meanings, ex-members?  Does changing words matter?  (provide examples if you can please)

[Love'n Honey]

[Love'n Honey]

My daughter says, "My mommy said.." and what follows is usually not true. =)

[Questioninginla]

Aside from appeals to authority, certainly there must be code words if we examine critically.

Appeal to authority: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9l_puxcrlM&list=UUlQzKGw31DagWzBYebtltNg&index=10

I've done a search for code words, haven't found anything, and would like to see if there is any merit in this area or not.  In other words, its a challenge.  Is "examining" willing to examine "examining"?  Perhaps claims that this group is destructive are indeed unwarranted?

[Joshua]

I pulled this from the Trigger Words posting:

I haven't heard about A-Men being one but it's worth looking into. Father, mother, sister, brother, passover, sabbath, ect… these are all words that help reset the mind to the groups way of thinking. The most incidious in my mind is the phrase God Bless You. Most people that claim to believe in God use this phrase. In a way the WMS has turned even well intentioned Christians into unwilling control triggers. I remember my loved one also using GBY as a way to try and shut down a conversation when it wasn't going her (ie. the groups) way. I even confronted my loved on about this. The way they're taught to abuse GBY with each other and with people outside of the group really gets under my skin. I love using GBY but I feel that in a way my hands have been tied because I do my best not to make people stumble especially when they are on their way out of this bondage. 

You are looking for words that might be a form of control? This is a short list but a good place to start.

I'm not sure where you are going with your last post. I'm a little concerned, care to clarify?

[Love'n Honey]

May I add that in my kind of congregation [and by my kind I literally mean predominately black], we call each other sister and brother even outside the church. This is usually done between people who met within the church 1st. There's even a Mother of the church. She is not worshipped but the Mother is usually the oldest committed woman of a particular congregation. We [referring to churches I have been to aside from the WMSCOG] even dedicate a whole day to the Mother of the church. It's like the 5th Sunday of any given month or something like that. I have also explained previously about the use of 'Praise the Lord, Saints', 'the devil is a liar', and 'Amen'.

With this in mind, we are not forced to do any of these things but many people do what the Romans do when they're in Rome. I did notice that once I decided not to be a part of the congregation, people began to worry about my faith. They weren't as persistent as the WMSCOG but they did call a few times and even asked my family about me.

[Liberty]

What denomination was that church Renita?

[Questioninginla]

Someone PMd me fruit.

To recap:

"God bless you", fragrance, fruit, "Mother said", Father, Mother, sister, brother, passover, sabbath.

Please add, and then comprehensive discussion begins.

[Love'n Honey]

Liberty wrote:

What denomination was that church Renita?

 Apostolic

[Questioninginla]

Current member notification – Simple facts here; no attacking anyones ideology.

Let's address the significance of father, mother, sister, brother when used for manipulation; it is obvious that it is a ploy to replace blood family with new family from the group – quite a strong bond.

A list of leaders that used "father":  Jim Jones (People's Temple), Warren Jeffs (FLDS), David Koresh (aka Vernon Howell; Branch Davidians), David Berg (The Family), Father Divine, Father Sun Myung Moon (Moonies).

All of their followers truly believed in these people as either deity on earth or near-deity/grand prophet.  Yes, in many cases even though ideologies were based upon the Bible and Jesus' warning as such to call no man on earth father!

Want to see some normal people?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7IxGGfpSWk

Fragrance at 4:10 minute mark, fyi.  let me know what you think.

[Sarah2013]

Good post. My dad hated the idea of JW and the like preachings for many years because of Jim Jones. Knew of him way back as far as the late 70s’ because dad spoke so much of him. Question: did that man’s face morph at 5:11 or was it technical issue?

[Sarah2013]

There is a message in this video: Part 5 video of “Peoples Temple” in one way or another. If you watch this video you’ll see how he went from gathering people, claiming to have the love of God in him, to people holding up signs saying “I believe in Jim Jones.” As if that wasn’t enough, people were asked to sell all there belonging and bring to the church (I guess depicting what Jesus said in the Bible). From there, he builds homes for the elderly, buys transportation buses. As he continues with his ministry and followers, he not only start to show signs of inconsistency, but of all sorts of abuse and greed. In the end, what happens? He literally poisons his followers who were at the worship Centre that day.

Now we see all these former members speaking out. They sensed something was wrong at the time but were scared to admit or even talk about it – as they weren’t even allowed to speak to other members. This is so sick, guys. There are many cults around today like this. We need to listen to our inner-man.

The tactics may not be the same today or even its agenda the same, but no cult means well. No Church that pretends to be of Jesus Christ, yet not, will go on for too long without God’s wrath. We need to stop twisting the bible. Whether in pretence of Jesus Christ or another Christ.

See video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieLkcBEJ1h8

Thanks, Questioningla.

[Sarah2013]

I just finished watching all 9 parts to the Jim Jones actual footage documentary that Questioningla posted. I am in so much tears. Jesus, please come soon is all I can say.

Questioningla, more people need to see this video. Crazy things happening all over the world.

[Love'n Honey]

What's JW? When I read the post, 'Jesus Worship' came to mind but I don't think that's right..

[Questioninginla]

Hi Sarah.  Thank you for the comments.  The only thing I fear (relative to current members that may be reading) is that they tend to look for reasons to say "we don't do that" rather than "what might perhaps be similar in my life".

Jones resorted to some of the physical abuse (seen in your link) because he didn't understand well enough the power of simple psychology.  The issue at hand is power and control regardless of physical or psychological form.

I do hope that people, current members of any group included, watch from part 1 because it is factual information.  For current members of any group it would beg the ultimate question:  Why am I not allowed to watch it?  And for former members "ashamed" of certain behaviors and "this" or "that" – like I said before and can be seen in the video – these are normal people we are talking about. 

 

renita – I suspect JW stands for Jehovah's Witnesses

[Love'n Honey]

Oh.. I feel stupid.

Psychological control is much more powerful than physical control. I always asked why. Usually the answer was, of course, 'Because Mother said..' Very rarely did I get a Scriptual answer for my 'Why?' questions. DUH!

[Questioninginla]

renita.payno wrote:

Oh.. I feel stupid.

Psychological control is much more powerful than physical control. I always asked why.

If a teacher wants to reduce cheating in the classroom they can put a big cartoon eye somewhere in the classroom.

Another method is to embed words associated with God into the test itself.

Both of these greatly reduce cheating.

If you were asked to submit and obey and did not know at the time how powerful psychological control was, why would you feel stupid about it?  Stop blaming yourself for being human.  Rather, embrace the gift it is to be human, knowing that we do make mistakes.

[Love'n Honey]

Questioninginla wrote:

renita.payno wrote:

Oh.. I feel stupid.

Psychological control is much more powerful than physical control. I always asked why.

If a teacher wants to reduce cheating in the classroom they can put a big cartoon eye somewhere in the classroom.

Another method is to embed words associated with God into the test itself.

Both of these greatly reduce cheating.

If you were asked to submit and obey and did not know at the time how powerful psychological control was, why would you feel stupid about it?  Stop blaming yourself for being human.  Rather, embrace the gift it is to be human, knowing that we do make mistakes.

I was saying I feel stupid because I didn't see that JW meant Jehovah's Witnesses. I've seen it before but I don't know why I couldn't get past JW meaning Jesus Worship.

[Questioninginla]

Note:  the groups that come to mind when people think of destructive groups are seemingly always those with the penultimate sacrifice, that being life.  I don't much like furthering that stereotype because people seem to miss that the catalyst that creates that situation is power.  So I'll be switching off the subject soon, but I was just doing some research on Jones (speaking of his prophecies):

"I have been given the date, the month, and the year where a nuclear war will take place.  I want to be like Jonah of old.  I want to be proven wrong.  I'll be happy if my one of my prophecies fail."

Anyone find something of interest there?

[MountainMom]

Questioning, I may have missed this somewhere, but are you a former member?

[Questioninginla]

Instead of hijacking another thread, I thought this applicable to this thread because of examining words and word usage:

(KFs inquiry to FTOS about proving the existence of 2CC)

KF wrote:

please show me the verse that verifies that, this should not be an obstacle for you, because that is what you teach and because the bible is complete now-a-days…it is finish from beginning to end…nothing can be added or taken away, compare to 2,000 years ago when it was only the O.T.

Thank You!

Easy.

Secret is equal to Guarded. (Referring to Jesus revealing secrets and the Tree of Life being guarded)

New name will be revealed.

Bride will be revealed.

Viola, Father and Mother.

Add a pinch of scarcity (we're the only ones doing it correctly).

PO protects us (a nifty paradoxical phobia?  your choice)

Everyone acts nice, we're all friends, we dress alike, why wouldn't we want to spend so much time together (an isolating environment obtained passively?  your choice)

If one can convince another that an apple = orange, then why not oranges = lemons?  If so, check mate, game over.  De facto an apple now is equal to a lemon.  Plenty more fruit in the bucket for other purposes, methinks.  EAT IT!

Yes, words matter.

[Sarah2013]

Yes, Questioningla, they can say things like that. Viewing it from part1 is the best way to go. I remember bringing up the story of Jim Jones in another thread months back. It always starts off rosy but eventually revealing signs of inconsistency. What got me was how in the documentary, the former members said they weren’t allowed to talk to other members. They knew something was wrong but too afraid to leave. They snitched on anyone trying to leave. He was sure to destroy anyone who tried to expose him, including the vicious murder of a Senator. So much more.

Today, mind control occult leaders use different approaches than that of Jim Jones. In his case, he was a very disturbed kid. Kinda like a religious Adolf Hitler.

Yes, JW was for Jehovah’s Witness.