Who Did Ahnsahnghong Say Is The Last Adam?

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  • #6748
    Hailey Stevens
    Participant

    In an online sermon, “The Sabbath and God the Creator” the WMSCOG claims that Ahnsahnghong is the last Adam. http://english.watv.org/truth/sermon/content.asp?idx=1291

    However, Ahnsahnghong writes in his book “Visitors From the Angelic World” (p.55), “Thus, Jesus is the last Adam, and the saints who are redeemed can be called the last Eve.”

    If Ahnsahnghong didn’t believe that he was the last Adam, but instead believed that the last Adam is Jesus, like the Bible clearly states in Romans 5:14-15, then why does the WMSCOG teach something different? If the WMSCOG believes that Ahnsahnghong is not just the founder of their church, but the “Father” (see the sermon above), why would they go against his own writings? Will a current WMSCOG member please clarify if I am incorrect in any way?

  • #41715

    Simon
    Participant

    If Ahnsahnghongh=Jesus and Jesus=Last Adam Ahnsahnghong=Last Adam

    1+1=2 2*1=2 1+1=2*1

    #41716

    genny
    Participant

    shimon wrote:

    If Ahnsahnghongh=Jesus and Jesus=Last Adam Ahnsahnghong=Last Adam

    Wouldn't Ahnsahnghong be the Last Last Adam?

    What about Ahnsahnghong calling the saints the Last Eve?

    #41717

    Simon
    Participant

    Words have more than one meaning in scripture in mystery of God and spring kid the.water if, life he doesn’t man the church by last eve

    #41718

    genny
    Participant

    Shimon, I think you must be tired.  I'm having a hard time understand what you've written in several of your posts tonight.  Can you please try again tomorrow?

    #41719

    Simon
    Participant

    Wow you are right that didn’t make ANY sense

    #41720

    Simon
    Participant

    That was supposed to say:

    Words have more than one meaning in scripture. Take Lamb which can mean Christ and can mean God's people.

    Stone can also mean Christ or God's people.

     

    In the Mystery of God and the Spring of the Water of Life it refers to the Last Eve as one giving Water of Life just like 3,500 years ago Jehovah did and 2000 years ago Jesus did, such a testimony cannot be about us.

    By the way, I tried to clarify the clearly confusing posts I made before if I missed anything I will try again 🙂

    #41721

    genny
    Participant

    shimon wrote:

    That was supposed to say:

    Words have more than one meaning in scripture. Take Lamb which can mean Christ and can mean God's people.

    Stone can also mean Christ or God's people.

     

    In the Mystery of God and the Spring of the Water of Life it refers to the Last Eve as one giving Water of Life just like 3,500 years ago Jehovah did and 2000 years ago Jesus did, such a testimony cannot be about us.

    By the way, I tried to clarify the clearly confusing posts I made before if I missed anything I will try again 🙂

    Thanks, shimon.  That's better. 🙂

    I have reread the last chapter of that book, and I still did not find what you are referring to.  I see no reference to the "Last Eve."  I do see references to the water of life coming from Jerusalem/Zion, but it is talked about as a place, not a person.

    Yes, there are some words in the Bible that are used in different contexts to symbolize different things, but if you look for "Eve" in the Bible, there are only a few places that talk about her, and it is always referring to the first Eve.  There is no mention in the Bible of a "last Eve" like there is a "last Adam." 

    #41722

    Simon
    Participant

    In Chapter 24 He does write that the Last Adam and Last Eve are called the Spirit and the Bride. It also has his drawing of the Spirit and the Bride on a chart explaining the creation.

    Chapter 35 He explains how the Spirit and the Bride will come in the flesh to proclaim  the relevent passage begins:

    This prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus Christ came in the flesh 1,900 years ago and cried out on the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles:

    Jn 7:37-39 『On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.』

    The above words were spoken by Jesus Himself 1,900 years ago. The same words are repeated in these last days, too.

    I dunno if that will help you find it.

     

    As for not mention of a last Eve if Jesus is the Pattern of Adam the pattenr of Adam does include Eve. Even other churches look to find who she is like the Catholics with Mary.

    #41723

    genny
    Participant

    In Chapter 24 He does write that the Last Adam and Last Eve are called the Spirit and the Bride. It also has his drawing of the Spirit and the Bride on a chart explaining the creation.

    Thanks, shimon, that was helpful.  I've been rereading chapter 24 also now.  I see where he talks about Eve, and the Bride, but he doesn't say anywhere that it means a 'mother god.'  He does however say:

    "The love between Adam and Eve represents the love between Jesus and us." (p. 311)

    "Just as God made Eve from the rib of Adam, so He recreates us with the flesh and blood of Jesus." (p. 313)

    on page 319 he says "In Rev. 22:17, the last Adam and Eve are called the Spirit and the Bride." and on the diagram page, he says, "On the last day, the Spirit and the Bride will appear and lead all the animals (the Gentiles)."

    Since he says nothing about the Bride being a 'mother god,' his previous statements (and his statements in Visitors from the Angelic World) tell us that he believed the Bride to be the saints.

    Chapter 35 He explains how the Spirit and the Bride will come in the flesh to proclaim  the relevent passage begins:

    This prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus Christ came in the flesh 1,900 years ago and cried out on the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles:

    Jn 7:37-39 『On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.』

    The above words were spoken by Jesus Himself 1,900 years ago. The same words are repeated in these last days, too.

    I dunno if that will help you find it.

    That did help me find the part you were talking about, thank you.  It's on page 473.

    He says, "In what form will the Spirit and the Bride come and proclaim?"  Then he goes on to say that Jesus will come again in the flesh, "Unless the Word becomes flesh, how can the Spirit say?" and "Therefore, the Spirit is the truth, the truth is the Son, and the Son can be born as a child.  Jesus Christ is the Spirit, who was born as a child through the body of Mary." and "The Holy Spirit is God Himself."

    He doesn't say anything about what form the Bride will take, but next talks about the living water and where it will come from. On page 477, "In this heavenly Jerusalem–the city of God's appointed feasts, we can drink the water of life."  And he equates the water of life with the Passover and Jesus' "precious blood shed on the cross 1,900 years ago." (p. 483)

    then on page 485, "From Zion, the city where God's appointed feasts are celebrated, the water of life given as the covenant always flows." and once final quote of Rev. 22:17, "The Spirit and the Bride say, 'Come!'"

    So again, he never says that the Bride is 'mother god.'  He doesn't even talk about the heavenly Jerusalem (or Zion) as a person, but as a place, a city.

    To say that he is talking about 'mother god' is to add to his words.  The wmscog preaches heavily about not adding (or taking away from) the Bible, but it's ok to add to Ahnsahnghong's words?  If Ahn is God, shouldn't his words be treated the same and not added or taken away from?

    #41724

    Simon
    Participant

    It says she will come in the last days to proclaim thus referring to her as a person and as one who appears in the last days which would not qualify as the Church meaning he cannot have believer the bride was the church even if he did not believe in a mother God. He also says that after asking about both causing it to likely be an answer for both.

     

    Look at the top of the diagram where he draws the heavnly thrones of the spirit and the bride.

    #41725

    genny
    Participant

    shimon wrote:

    It says she will come in the last days to proclaim thus referring to her as a person and as one who appears in the last days which would not qualify as the Church meaning he cannot have believer the bride was the church even if he did not believe in a mother God. He also says that after asking about both causing it to likely be an answer for both.

     

    Look at the top of the diagram where he draws the heavnly thrones of the spirit and the bride.

    The church is collectively made up of people.  If your objection is that you are looking for a Bride who will not appear until the last days, this would still work with Ahn's teaching that the true church would be 'restored' in the last days. 

    If you are looking at it from a Christian perspective, the church is preparing itself as a Bride (2 Cor. 11:2), and at the end it will be complete (and rejoined with those who have died and gone ahead) and Jesus will collect her and bring to fulfillment with the wedding supper, and that's how you see the Bride 'appear' in the last days–complete and ready for the wedding.

    Have you read 'Visitors from the Angelic World'?  (These page numbers are from an English only edition.)

    page 50, "Adam represents Jesus who was in the world of angels before the creation, and Eve represents the angels whom Jesus loved."

    page 55, "Thus, Jesus is the last Adam, and the saints who are redeemed can be called the last Eve."

    So Ahn (in the books I've read) consistently refers to the last Eve as the saints, and the heavenly Jerusalem (or Zion) as a place–neither one as a 'mother god'.

    I saw the diagram.  There are verses talking about our (the church's) reigning with Jesus.  He could still be thinking of the church rather than a 'mother god.'  (Rev. 5:10; 2 Tim. 2:12; Rev. 20:6)

    #41726

    Simon
    Participant

    That wouldn't make sense because the last eve must come BEFORE the spiritual gentiles are saved if she comes to save them.

    #41727

    genny
    Participant

    shimon wrote:

    That wouldn't make sense because the last eve must come BEFORE the spiritual gentiles are saved if she comes to save them.

    Do you mean it doesn't make sense that Ahn said the last Eve is the church?  But that's what he said.

    The church (people who are believers) does lead people to salvation by telling them about Jesus (or in your case, Ahnsahnghong).

    #41728

    Simon
    Participant

    Yes but the bride comes out of Heaven so those who fell asleep before, who you claim go to heaven, would have to have already come back if he meant the bride were the church in this context as well. Which would be inconsistant with his claim in Visitors from the angelic World about them sleeping in Paradise.

    #41729

    genny
    Participant

    I think the difficulty here is that the wmscog believes the bride won't appear until the last days, right?  I'm trying to go back and find verses for that.  There are only three passage in Revelation that mention the bride.

    Revelation 19, the wedding of the Lamb, says "his bride has made herself ready."  That doesn't mean she's not around beforehand, it's just that now she's ready.  Yes, this can be the church.

    Revelation 22:17, "The Spirit and the bride say, 'Come!'"  That does not have to be only in the future.  There is no reason it was not a contemporary message even in John's time.  That bride can be the church too.

    Revelation 21, the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven prepared as a bride.  This is definitely in the future, but look, it's after the events of Rev. 20 (the thousand year reign, the judgment of satan and the judgment of the dead), and it's after the first heaven and first earth has passed away (Rev. 21:1).  This also shows the church, which at that time will be glorious and perfect, when there is finally a new heaven and new earth.

    There is no problem with the bride being the church in any of these contexts.

    There is, however, a problem with the bride being Zahng in Rev. 21, because we still are in the old earth, and none of the events in Rev. 20 have happened yet.

    #41730

    Simon
    Participant

    Depends on you’re definition of new Heaven and new earth

    And the church cannot be the bride in 22:17 because the church is those who hear the spirit and the bride further more the church cannot give water of life

    Also revelation isn’t 100% chronological by any interpretation I have heard especially because that would mean Babylon the great would fall twice

    #41731

    genny
    Participant

    Depends on you're definition of new Heaven and new earth

    What's your definition of a new heaven and new earth?

    And the church cannot be the bride in 22:17 because the church is those who hear the spirit and the bride further more the church cannot give water of life

    Rev. 22:17 says, "The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life."

    The message of 'Come!' is for everybody.  Who gives the message?  The Spirit, the bride, and the hearers.

    Does this verse mention anyone giving the water of life?  No.  It says that the water of life is available for anyone who wants to take it.

    If the bride is God simply because she says, "Come!" then by the same logic, the hearers are Gods also.

    The Spirit (God) and the bride (the church) invite everyone to come, and those who have heard them also invite everyone to come, so that anyone who is thirsty for life should come, and anyone who wants to can take the water of life because it is a free gift.

    Also revelation isn't 100% chronological by any interpretation I have heard especially because that would mean Babylon the great would fall twice

    You are right that Revelation is not 100% chronological, but even Ahnsahnghong interpreted Rev. 21 as chronological after Rev. 20.  See what he wrote in chapter 16 of "Problems with New Jerusalem…" https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/archives/chapter-16-claiming-that-shes-the-only-bride/

    #41732

    genny
    Participant

    Just want to add that Bible scholars say the "Come!" in Rev. 22:17 can have another meaning–a request and invitation for Jesus to come (return).

    Rev. 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon…"

    Rev. 22:20 "He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen.  Come, Lord Jesus.

    #41733

    Simon
    Participant

    Ahnsahnghong personally recalled that book that must be taken into account

    Also the bride isn’t God for saying come the bride however is summarily not the church because the church is the hearers

    Unless you wanna argue

    The spirit and the church say come and let the church say come whoever is thirsty let him come and whoever wishes let him take the free gift of the water of life.

    #41734

    Joshua
    Participant

    When did Ahn recall any of his books! Does this mean that your god the father printed lies? I need real proof on this one. He either testified that there's no god the mother or he lied and therefore cannot be god. Give me proof! Don't try to dance around this either! Real proof!

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