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This topic contains 22 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  MountainMom 4 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 23 total)
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  • #68274

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Maybe we should change the name of this thread to "Where has Nohandle gone?"  He has nothing to say on the subject of proaction concerning  the wms. 

    #68273

    MountainMom
    Participant

    @nohandle:  You never seem to address the subject of prevention and proactive action in your posts.  The main reason I am here is to try to prevent people from going through what I, and others have gone through.  This is what is important at this point to me.  If someone wants to go into this with both eyes open to what really is involved with being a member, then I have no problem.  Deceptive recruiting and undue influence are a big problem, however.  They don't tell people about the relationship problems, the financial drain, the possible career derailments,the time commitments, the loss of free will, etc. that will be a part of being a member of this church.  They don't give any inkling of the heartache that will be inflicted on them and their families.   No one would go into this if they knew.  No one I have warned has.  Prevention is the best medicine.  Remember that old adage,"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."?  It really works.  That is the main reason the wms wants no one to speak on this forum.  And it is why I will continue to do so. 

    #68272

    MountainMom
    Participant

    @nohandle:  I see what you are saying.  However, most people who left realized on their own that they were being lied to.  Some got out with interventions.  Some just simply stopped believing and walked out after five or six years. Others have stayed in for a very long time before they were fed up, financially ruined, and had abandoned some really great relationships. Many parents I know are trying as hard as they can just to keep relationships going,  and are not having the "church" discussions.  We do what we can.   Still, the church leaders will try to separate them if they feel the parents or other loved ones are making headway of any kind.  The only family members they will put up with are those who are either members, or do not care if their loved one is wasting their life in a cult.   

     

    #68271

    nohandle
    Member

    Yes groups like this stunt members' abilities to perform objective research.  It is easy to criticize these groups.  However, how many people in the world critically examine their social environment?  Like always, we can point out the problems in other people's life choices but conveniently ignore our own, and justify it away because some group is labeled this or that or a "cult".

    Btw, some of these posts come across as clinging to your ideologies in an eerily similar manner to members still in their groups.  Just because the obvious Lifton themes are recognizable for them doesn't mean that the absence thereof for us means that we have the free will that we think we have.

    The main point is, under what conditions would someone want to step out of what they (feel they know) is the Truth?

    #68270

    Sally
    Member

    What is truth wrote:

    I have gone no where….. In fact, I have reached through to another person I recriuted years ago, and now he is out!!! That's 3 so far, of the many that I brought to the WMS…. and if that's all I can do, then it would still have been a battle well fought and time well spent. And, no where near to being like a person swimming up stream! So in short, we are still out here and we are still spreading the truth about this organization so that no one else will have to go through what we went through.

    Sally's theory of probability….Nohandle + Time = Victor  (I'm still here for you Victor)….. oh, and (not so) Neutral.

     Good call What is truth, def not Victor, soooo Chad.

    Nohandle, please respond from your heart, please tell these parents why your god doesn't want their children to be part of their lives.

    Read carefully what they say and tell us why your god feels these parents are so evil that their children must disconnect from them as per your gods will. Be honest with us and yourself and please don't say, no one is telling them to disconnect because you know that's BS.

    #68269

    Upset Mom
    Member

    Well Hello Everyone!!!!!!  Thank you for speaking up.  I would like to respond to nohandle.  Let me start with saying that I don't care who knows that I have visited this site, or any other for that matter, because it my right to explore, read and research.  If my loved one asked, of course I would say yes because if they want to allow his/her deacon or whoever to control him/her into not speaking with me, that is his/her loss.  Like many of the others, I have done my research, made my own decision and decided based on this research, that WMS is nothing more than a mind control unit.  I have watched my loved one go from a very independent, strong minded person to an anxiety riddled person who can't even decide what to eat for dinner.  If that is happy, then I'll be miserable!  Someday, you all will be exposed and the more I can speak to expose you from recruiting and controlling one person, then I've done what my GOD has planned for me.  Good Luck in your intimidation methods of trying to control those who won't be controlled.   Oh by the way………..you DON'T me or my life!

    #68268

    Ms Freedom
    Member

    @nohandle – I appreciate that you are trying to help us reach our loved ones in this cult, but you are giving advice without knowing the full story of each person. Example: "I doubt seriously that you  have done all you can to prove you are unbiased towards this group and perhaps that is what your son wants, which may then open the door to him spending time with you." By saying "I doubt seriously" shows you do not know her story. You are making assumptions. Your "advice" is not based on facts – just assumptions. 

    I feel this website saved my life when I lost my loved one to this cult! If it wasn't for Mountain Mom and many others, I don't know what would have happened to me. So you may find it useless, but that is again – your opinion and your experience. Not the case with many others here.

    Also, your comment about having "empathy" for their point of view – what does that mean? Empathy means you feel the other person's pain. How do I empathize with someone in a cult who is controlled by their Korean leaders when I have never been in that situation? I do feel sorry for them because they are being controlled and have no free will, but I can't empathize with them. I empathize with other parents who have lost their child to this horrible cult because I have walked in their shoes.

    And last – you asked the question – if my child asks if I post here, what would I say? I would say that I have read over 30 books on cults, mind control, and influence. I have learned about Scientology, Children of God, the Unification Church, the Mormons, the Jehovah Wittnesses, Charles Manson, Jim Jones, Seventh Day Adventist, Heaven's Gate, etc., etc., I have watched hundreds of videos and visited hundreds of websites, including this one. And I am so happy that I have the freedom to read and research whatever I want. Then I would ask my loved one if they have been discouraged from visiting this website. (And I am assuming that the answer would be that they aren't discouraged – they choose not to read this). Which in the end is the perfect mind control and manipulation – getting someone to do EXACTLY what you want them to do and them THINKING it is their choice.

    So I will continue to post and visit this site. Because I can freely do that without guilt or fear. Santa Claus isn't watching me and neither is the mother.

    #68267

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Wow Nohandle! That was an awful long post for a guy who says posting here isn't a good idea.  Lol!  Anyway, like I said, I am not trying to convince my son to leave at this time, and I have tried the "no church talk and no challenge" route for years.  I just wanted to do exactly as you said, have a good visit and enjoy time with him when I could with no mention of the church. 

    It was not me but my son who kept trying to challenge and bring up the church when I had no intention of talking about it.    But I am quite sure that they (wms) had him set up to do so.   They wanted him to argue with me, I am quite sure. They actually kept bringing up a "transgression" they accused me of and harrassing hinm about it untill my son finally told them, "I don't want to hear about it again."  They pester him about everything that has to do with me or taking time for family.  No wonder he says he is miserable.  He is very conflicted.  So I just left it at "I love you, and I have always wanted you to be happy."  That was my simple and last communication with him. 

    #68266

    nohandle
    Member

    Ugh.

    You will lose him at "please read".

    Newsflash:  they're one step ahead of you.

    This will be your fault, not theirs: "the real pain and anguish your involvement with them has caused your family".

    I will edit this for you.  Here it is:

    "I love you, your Dad and siblings love you."

    Is it a problem when people work too long of hours at work?  When they buy into living in debt for most or all of their lives and buy more and more useless stuff?  When mainstream people marry for the wrong reasons or the "wrong" person or the wrong sex?  When they idolize rock stars or people in Hollywood?  When political candidates put forth anecdotes without any substantive claim based upon research?  Most or all of us on this planet go about most or all of our business taking the world and the people in it for granted.  What makes that so different than this group?

    Taking a look from another's perspective I could see where it would be pretty easy to say, "see, mom wants to tell me what to do and I'm a grown man. She just wants to pick my stuff apart when the rest of the world is "deceived" all the time.  I've found the truth".  Now you have a right-fighter on your hands.  Good luck with that.  People don't find or research the truth, they feel it.  It is then true.  "Consider that your time in the wms may have been one of those times" = mom was right to a right-fighter.  Stop thinking with an analytical/logical mindset.  I doubt seriously that you have done all you can to prove you are unbiased towards this group and perhaps that is what your son wants, which may then open the door to him spending some time with you.  Time which should be spent enjoying with him and absolutely without church talk or challenge whatsoever.

    Why exactly is this experience "hell", as you put it?  Fascist governments still exist in this day and age and I, personally, would reserve that title for people living under those regimes.  Even those people normalize what happens in their culture as a mechanism to make sense of their world.  They have nothing to compare to, and the regime seeks to maintain its control by keeping people inside.  The reason is, once people have a choice then…well, they have a choice.  If there is a divide that keeps you separated from your son then perhaps that is partially you to take responsibility for?  My advice is to become a neighboring country that doesn't criticize, is safe to visit, and let the immigration happen when it happens.  Or keep reinforcing your animosity towards the group.  Your choice.  This is just a differing point of view.

    #68265

    MountainMom
    Participant

    My response would be,"Please read everything I have posted, instead of just the edited exerpts the wms people have handed to you to use as a means to cause you to separate from me. You will see my concern and love for you, my frustration with the deception, and the real pain and anguish your involvement with them has caused your family. And then read all the rest of evidence that this site shows.  Remember that we have all been fooled before in our lives, and we did not know we were being deceived at the time.  That is the very essence of deception.  Consider that your time in the wms may have been one of those times. I love you, your Dad and siblings love you, and we are here.  Come back to your family."

    And then I guess I would not hold my breath for a response.  He would have to listen to his heart, and he doesn't seem able.  I hope some day he is.  He studied his way into this mess, and I hope some day he studies his way out.  I have done all I can.  Now I want to help other people so that we can prevent other mothers from going through the hell of watching what happens to their family after a loved one becomes ensnared by the wmscog.

    #68264

    nohandle
    Member

    Scenario:

    Your loved one at some point up and asks you if you post on here, your response is?

    #68263

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Good to hear from all of you on this thread.  I, too, loved Smurf's comments.  And, of course, I had my suspicions about Nohandle.  Sometimes I guess I need to hear some success stories.  I know they are out there.

    #68262

    I have gone no where….. In fact, I have reached through to another person I recriuted years ago, and now he is out!!! That's 3 so far, of the many that I brought to the WMS…. and if that's all I can do, then it would still have been a battle well fought and time well spent. And, no where near to being like a person swimming up stream! So in short, we are still out here and we are still spreading the truth about this organization so that no one else will have to go through what we went through.

    Sally's theory of probability….Nohandle + Time = Victor  (I'm still here for you Victor)….. oh, and (not so) Neutral.

    #68261

    Sally
    Member

    Smurf wrote:

    What @nohandle described is a very one-sided relationship. He doesn't seem like someone who would sacrifice anything for his loved ones. Which brings me to my next point:

    We don't have to post all the time here to expose the WMS, they are doing a pretty good job on their own and are making our case for us.

    Being active in a forum isn't the only way to fight the evil in this world.  On the contrary, the lack of activity here can mean that people are taking the fight "to the streets", so to speak and exploring other ways to deal with undue influence. Don't lose your hope, Upset Mom.

    We can't always see the immediate results of what we do in this battle and it can be demotivating at times. But what we can do is keep trying and remember that God has our back, unlike the deceitful koreans, who only have a corpse and an overweight elderly lady to show for.

    So even if you were the last line of defence, you needn't worry. Cause despite all the resources and effort the WMSCOG put in their infernal endeavours, there is One greater than all of them and all their forces combined.

     I was going to cut and paste a few things that Smurf said but when I re read it I realized I loved every word he said so I just copied the whole thing. You see Upset Mom, everyone is here, no one has gone anywhere AND no one is going anywhere. Obviously everyone comes to this site everyday or 2 just to check in. We are not afraid of the big bad wolf or anyone else for that matter.

    One thing we know for sure is, "History repeats itself!" and as we watch the wms follow the playbook of larger cults such as unification church/moonies, scientology and JW's who have become household names, unmasked as cults for all to see so too shall the wms by their own sword, so to speak.

    Sally's theory of probability….Nohandle + Time = Victor  (I'm still here for you Victor)

    #68260

    Smurf
    Member

    What @nohandle described is a very one-sided relationship. He doesn't seem like someone who would sacrifice anything for his loved ones. Which brings me to my next point:

    We don't have to post all the time here to expose the WMS, they are doing a pretty good job on their own and are making our case for us.

    Being active in a forum isn't the only way to fight the evil in this world.  On the contrary, the lack of activity here can mean that people are taking the fight "to the streets", so to speak and exploring other ways to deal with undue influence. Don't lose your hope, Upset Mom.

    We can't always see the immediate results of what we do in this battle and it can be demotivating at times. But what we can do is keep trying and remember that God has our back, unlike the deceitful koreans, who only have a corpse and an overweight elderly lady to show for.

    So even if you were the last line of defence, you needn't worry. Cause despite all the resources and effort the WMSCOG put in their infernal endeavours, there is One greater than all of them and all their forces combined.

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